Extra help for black pupils urged

Extra help for black pupils urged

news.bbc.co.uk

Black pupils should get extra help so they progress faster than their classmates, a government report says.

The strategy paper says all schools have a duty to narrow the achievement gap under the Race Relations Act.

Black pupils do worse than white ones even when class is accounted for - 25% of black Caribbean boys got five good GCSEs, compared to 43.5% of white boys.

Institutional racism, the report claims, is the most destructive element in the education of black children.

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OK, I know this is going to be a touchy subject, but it's something I feel should be discussed.

In the UK, asian kids, particularly those of Indian descent/origin are the highest achievers.
White kids come next,
black kids are at the bottom.

This new report seeks to pin the blame on "institutional racism"
A rather PC phrase frist coined about the London met police, it is now a catch-all phrase to describe anything and everything about problems that ethnic minorities have.

If the school system is so institutionally racist, how come the indian kids are the highest achievers?

I would suggest that this report itself is guilty of racism, by again seeking to divide instead of working together with schools, communities and parents to overcome the problems some ethnic groups allegedly face.

This is yet another example of ethnicity being blamed for something that is simply not true, but according to our government and it's numerous committees, if you don't believe it you are sonehow racist.

What we need to do is find ways to help those who face difficulties in the social or educational sense, regardless of where they come from or their ethnic group.

I say again - IF THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IS SO RACIST, WHY DO THE ASIAN KIDS DO SO WELL.

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Well historically, the nations whos cultures have develepd from African descent have been more exploited, culturally descimated and held back by the European powers after the Renaissance. And when an entire culture is forcefully deprived from developing for several centuries, it takes time for the individuals of that culture to ctach up.

asian and Indian cultures never faced the cultural attacks on the same level as those from the African cultures. Indeed they were occupied and exploited, but history shows that those from Africa were intentionally targeted, attacked, and exploited much much worse than those in the Eastern cultures. the Asians already had power enough to counter the western influence complete and total domination, although they were still exploited to an extent.

Rather than helping the underdeveloped cultures of the African descent, the Western powers decided to explopit and further deprive this culture for several mroe centuries, based soley on their skin color and partially to their lack of technological development. They were nothing more than beasts to be utilized as tools in the eyes of the predatory empires. this led to several centuries of stagnation for technological and cultural development.

Fast forward to today, where as a human peoples who have been deprived for centuries from the same level of development on the individual scale thoughout the lands where they were scattered by the empires of old, they are only now beginning to catch up with the rest of the world's cultures.

Given enough time with equality, (only been about a century and a half) the playing field will be mostly leveled out. Asians and Indian kids tend to do better than the Western caucasian because overall (going merely by statistics here) as a result of not having as easy access to the media which tends to reduce the IQ of our children. there are many young children who visit zoos in the Western world that wonder why the animals do not look all cute cuddly and friendly as the cartoons portray them. then as they get older into tjhe teenage years, they are exposed to media which encourages criminl behavior, glorifies immorality and projects inequality (particularly degradation towards women) as acceptable.

I understand none of this should have anything to do with race or nationality, I just thought it would be prudent to point out and not ignore the probable reasons for these alleged statistical anomalies/results/observatiosn of pupils from differing cultures that are a direct result of the past segments of history. Now that we are working together as people to eliminate these barriers, all the cultures will eventually have equal footing in the world. It just takes time man... thats all.

I hope most of that was understandable, and none of it is meant to demean or attack anyone. If further explanation of my comments is desired, I will happy to do so.

reply to post by DYepes


Don't forget that the black community in the UK is mostly of afro-caribean descent - and I really do think this makes a difference.

My argument still rests on one point - we should be helping ALL under-priveleged or socially deprived members of our communities, not just targetting one group, because this in and of itself causes problems.

Did affirmative action work out that great? Because that's what's going on here.

ok.. im sure im gonna get bashed for this but..

when are people gonna stop playing the victim role and start taking responsibility for ones own actions.. if the black kids aren't doing as well in the same schools as others doing well, maybe the problem should be looked at starting with the home life...
should we slow the other kids down so the black kids don't feel so dumb?
telling ya, it starts at home.

I know I know... everyone is racist...

I agree witht he focusing on everyone. It is just that when you happen to notice one group is staggeringly mroe in trouble than another, you want to try to focus your efforts where help is greatly needed right?

For instance, every part of a city could feel crime, but generally you want to focus your law enforcement where the crime is highest in the city right?

And also I agree we should begin looking at home life to analyze how we can improve upon a situation, that goes for everyone. I have personally noticed, as having been out of high school for 6 years now (kicked out at 16), that those with sup-par academic achivement tend to come from poorer families. They also either tend to come from high crime neighborhoods, which also make sway for drugs.

when kids see that their parents are not even trying, what is going to encourage them? I had excellent academic scores, I just was naive and young and thnought it was cool to act like a criminal/jackass. Probably had somethign to do with the media exposure, but I take full responsibility, as the choices were ultimately my own.

[edit on 4/16/2008 by DYepes]

Originally posted by DYepes
Well historically, the nations whos cultures have develepd from African descent have been more exploited, culturally descimated and held back by the European powers after the Renaissance. And when an entire culture is forcefully deprived from developing for several centuries, it takes time for the individuals of that culture to ctach up.

Why does the opression of their country of ethnic origin matter? Thats like saying that Jewish people in America are a certain way due to the actions of Egyptian driven slavery.

These kids are British, they were born here and educated here. If they are not doing as well as other racial groups, it is because they are not working hard enough or are not capable. Opression of their country of origin is no excuse, since they were not born there or educated there.

asian and Indian cultures never faced the cultural attacks on the same level as those from the African cultures. Indeed they were occupied and exploited, but history shows that those from Africa were intentionally targeted, attacked, and exploited much much worse than those in the Eastern cultures. the Asians already had power enough to counter the western influence complete and total domination, although they were still exploited to an extent.

Utter tripe. The british ruled India for 300 years and systematically extracted all the wealth from the country. How can one level of occupation be determined as being more lenient than another? Britain occupied India and Nigeria... a like by like comparison of their statuses today can tell you the effect that any occupation would have had on the inhabitants.

Given enough time with equality, (only been about a century and a half) the playing field will be mostly leveled out. Asians and Indian kids tend to do better than the Western caucasian because overall (going merely by statistics here) as a result of not having as easy access to the media which tends to reduce the IQ of our children.

Again, utter nonsense. I know all kids have exactly the same access to media as any other race group in the country. I posit that Chinese and Indian children do better at school due to a different work ethic and possibly innate intellectualism.

I understand none of this should have anything to do with race or nationality, I just thought it would be prudent to point out and not ignore the probable reasons for these alleged statistical anomalies/results/observatiosn of pupils from differing cultures that are a direct result of the past segments of history. Now that we are working together as people to eliminate these barriers, all the cultures will eventually have equal footing in the world. It just takes time man... thats all.

All it takes is one generation. The indians here are mainly from Uganda, where they were driven out by Idi Amin. Their parents arrived here with nothing (literally nothing), but most Indians here are in respected positions such as doctors, lawyers and accountants.

Time is not the equation here. It takes just one generation to turn things around, if that.

reply to post by DYepes


Just one question:

How does what happened centuries ago relate to this? That was then and this is now.

reply to post by budski

In the UK, asian kids, particularly those of Indian descent/origin are the highest achievers.
White kids come next,
black kids are at the bottom.

That is actually the same in America.. and the laws are not aimed at all minorities, just blacks.

It seems blacks are impaired in any society they live in, whether it is their own in Africa or in a Western ........

I honestly doubt this is because of Racism, as no other race has problems..

But I propose no reason as to the problem, just that I find it odd only one minority is having "problems" and they are the only ones screaming "racism" .. odd indeed.

Call me insane but this might be evidence of blacks not buying into our BS-school system.

Our methods of teaching and the subjects we teach are, imo, pure BS and cripple childrens ability to be creative, physically healthy, mentally self-determined and spiritually aware.

So, failing in this BS school system is actually a sign of intelligence.

Sorry for the controversial opinion.

There are two possible options. Blacks are actually less developed mentally. That is they have less brain power than whites. The other option is that blacks have damaging social attributes that hinder students. I'm betting on the social culture aspect because I don't see how blacks can be considered less intelligent simply on a physical aspect.

Originally posted by dbates
There are two possible options. Blacks are actually less developed mentally. That is they have less brain power than whites. The other option is that blacks have damaging social attributes that hinder students. I'm betting on the social culture aspect because I don't see how blacks can be considered less intelligent simply on a physical aspect.

You forgot the option that it might be our school system that is inappropriate.

Skyfloating, I would tend to disagree with you on this one.

It is black kids that fail in the education system.

It is not education that fails black kids.

Here's a report showing all the statistics on the subject you need for the UK (PDF 2.7mb)

It makes for some interesting reading and may point to some social factors.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Skyfloating, I would tend to disagree with you on this one.

It is black kids that fail in the education system.

It is not education that fails black kids.

My observation is that people who like to move, enjoy themselves and have colourful surroundings... (all signs of intelligence)...

will fail in an education system that consists of sitting around all day in gray classrooms listening to dry data.

Skyfloating

Except in the UK there is now a learn by rote system designed to help pupils pass exams, rather than teaching them how to think.

It's a cultural problem - I know black kids that get good grades get a lot of flak for "acting white." There is a widespread belief among poor blacks that the system is tilted against them, and that if you succeed in the system, then you are somehow betraying your race.

It's not as simple as "institutional racism" because it is a self destructive form of racist belief within black communities themselves. They've done experiments where they offer black toddlers two dolls, one white and one black, and ask them which they think is "better" - the black kids almost always pick the white doll

We have an entire branch of society that has been for centuries trained to think of themselves as inferior. Then we get bent out of shape & self righteous because the problem isn't cured in a couple decades

In fact...I disliked school and "failed" in school for those very reasons.

The way "school" is set up is that its only good for yea-sayers who do nothing all day but nod their heads to what the teacher says.

Sitting around all day for more than 10 years memorizing stuff is not my idea of getting a life.

And even the basic necessities...such as writing, reading, a little bit of math, language, a bit of history, biology, geography...can be taught in a much more interesting and entertaining manner.

Originally posted by budski
Skyfloating

Except in the UK there is now a learn by rote system designed to help pupils pass exams, rather than teaching them how to think.

Exactly. Its become about "passing exams" rather than learning to think, live, grow.

Let us assume a white kid has had everything they need to focus on their mental capacity for 18 generations in his country.

Now let us look at carribean, african and other nations of african descemt. Have they had everything they need for the last 18 generations to focus their mental capacity versus just trying to live another day in their land deprived of infrastructure and security?

Over the course of 18 generations, this will have an effect on the way each new individual is evolving biologically, anatomically, and mentally.

I am quite open to skyfloating's theory.