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Thoughts On Exotic Propulsion Systems...

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posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:25 PM
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WitnessFromAfar

You are lost unto yourself. You are simply not capable of grasping certain concepts. That is OKAY, no one faults you for it.

With time you may realize that certain concepts do take time to become truly understood, and this is often the case.

I can only hope that you take the time to read my previous posts, as I have made myself quite clear throughout this thread and do not intend to explain every concept you don't understand, especially if it is readily available online, or in books.

I will not do your work for you, nor will I explain the minutia of my ideas. Nor give you data that could be modified and utilized in different type of patent.... which may explain your persistence in such matters.




posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by JackHill
 


Wow. I will certainly do what I can to track down some of his friends. In fact, I'm off to compose an email right now


-WFA

EDIT:
Okay, I obtained the contact person at Lockheed's Skunkworks that works in the medai:
Media Inquiries: Dianne Knippel (661) 572-4153 or dianne.m.knippel@lmco.com

I just sent off an email that reads thus:

Good Day Dianne,

A number of independent researchers have gathered here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

to discuss Exotic Propulsion Mechanisms for potential spacecraft that could travel to other stars.

We would very much appreciate it if you could make the Skunkworks community aware of our discussion, as the insight and personal theories of the Lockheed Martin team are held in high regard in our community of researchers.

If any of them (or yourself) would like to participate, we would very much appreciate your input.

Thank you for your time,

-WitnessFromAfar, member at AboveTopSecret.com



[edit on 18-4-2008 by WitnessFromAfar]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by doctormcauley
WitnessFromAfar

You are lost unto yourself. You are simply not capable of grasping certain concepts. That is OKAY, no one faults you for it.


Well at least I can understand what a mechanism is. Apparently you're having trouble grasping it, even after several demonstrations.

You're insults add nothing to this thread. My work here at ATS stands on it's own merit.


Originally posted by doctormcauley
With time you may realize that certain concepts do take time to become truly understood, and this is often the case.


Time can in no way change the fact that you have not outlined a mechanism for potential space travel. I can't 'absorb' something that hasn't been stated.


Originally posted by doctormcauley
I can only hope that you take the time to read my previous posts, as I have made myself quite clear throughout this thread and do not intend to explain every concept you don't understand, especially if it is readily available online, or in books.


I did a google search on ORME, and got 5 pages of BS sites trying to sell me on the idea of eating gold, before I found THIS THREAD listed next in line in the google search.

I'm not sure if you're aware of what that means. What it means is that in Google's spider returns (spiders are programs that crawl the web, following links and reading pages for content and further links to travel) the top 50 hits (which translate into sites with 'page rank' that mention the term ORME) are complete crap, and then you come to THIS THREAD.

So perhaps this information your refering to isn't quite as 'readily available online' as you might think.

But I didn't stop there, I asked the advice of other ATS members, and I followed their links as well. Nothing. Loads and loads of it. (Unfortunately!) And I thank those members for assisting me in my search.

Finally BattleStarGallactica (BSG) and I postulated a method whereby these ORMEs could be fired out of an electromagnetic type railgun (or particle accelerator) as an engine.

You clearly liked this idea, whereby you started talking about nanotubes turning into plasma, which doesn't even make sense.

I did read your posts. I read them over and over again, trying to understand what in the hell you were talking about. I learned a lot about ORMEs or 'Noble Metals' as they are properly called. And I learned about a TON of people trying to profit off of ORMEs off of people that just might take the wrong dosage and turn themselves blue.

I spent way too much time trying to understand what you were talking about, for it to have actually made any sense at all to begin with.

And you don't even attempt to defend your arguments that I've already placed under the microscope, such as the 'nanotubes magically turning into plasma' and/or 'forcing a particle to propagate in wave form'.

Further, nobody has been able to offer an explanation as to what mechanism your talking about. There are some amazing minds here at ATS, and I'm pretty sure that if you were making any sense at all at least one of them would have jumped in to 'deny my ignorance'. People on this board should know by now, that if you attempt to have a rational conversation (involving questions and answers) with me, I'm totally open to doing so. I'll research and learn and fact check and cross-index and peer review my work. So if you eventually feel like getting around to proposing a mechanism for space travel, I'd appreciate it very much!


Originally posted by doctormcauley
I will not do your work for you, nor will I explain the minutia of my ideas.


I have no need for you to do anything for me, I'm quite capable of doing my own research, as this thread (and every other I've authored) well shows.

As for the minutia of your ideas, you REALLY don't get it. I could care less about the minutia and details. That's not what I asked you. I asked for the method. The Mechanism. The Concept. That should be easy, if it actually exists. And it specifically DOESN'T give away any details in a game where details are key.

The longer you go without stating a mechanism (in this thread, where that's what was asked for) the more foolish you make yourself look, and the more it seems to me that you don't really have anything to go on.


Originally posted by doctormcauley
Nor give you data that could be modified and utilized in different type of patent.... which may explain your persistence in such matters.


Are you kidding me?

Listen clearly... A Patent? Ridiculous.
I could just as easily say that I'm classifying the word 'wormholes' and the method by which they might work, and won't talk about the method, and claim that I have a patent on 'wormholes' and I don't want you to be able to create a similar patent stealing my work.

Don't you see how ridiculous that argument is?

You can't patent a concept. That's all I've asked for here. If you want a patent you need to build a machine that exploits the concept, and then you get a patent on the machine, not on the concept itself.

THEN you must have proof of concept in a built and functional prototype (preferably two) in order to sell your design (patented or not) to a company.

Let me be perfectly clear:
In NO way can a patent on a specific machine, with parameters undisclosed be infringed upon by the sharing of the concept itself.

Patents just don't work like that. There are patents that exist for things that don't even work. Without proof of concept, you have nothing, a patent is worthless. But you don't even have a concept apparently.


Or else list a mechanism.

I dare you. Deny my ignorance. Prove me wrong. The response you need to make has been formatted for you more than once. But here it is again, because I'm feeling like a charitable guy at the moment:

1) Mechanism Name
2) Mechanism Description
3) Travel Time using Mechanism

Please cite the 'wormhole' description I posted earlier if you need help defining those terms. Mechanism does not mean machine, it means concept, in this context.

-WFA



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 10:30 PM
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I find massive amounts of heat and pressure readily work to convert things to plasma.

At the nano level, this is so easy to do you you would laugh if I told you.
So I will...

...You do it by using one of the many known methods of converting substances into a plasma state.

Read a book for more information.

I recommend any Encyclopedia or science textbook.

Got it? Do you understand now?

Regarding Monoatomic elements;
Don't go to any "ORME sites", I don't believe in the New Age nonsense. They are only trying to sell things. It will affect your DNA, so don't ingest it.


*Read my Previous posts for info regarding the use of Monoatomic elements as part of a propulsion system. In these posts I also cover the basics of converting a chain of such elements into a wave function as a means to increase the potential yield via a series of quantum anomalies described therein.



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 12:24 AM
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Cool thread and some cool ideas put forth.
Seeing how every one is throwing ideas out I have one of my own. I personally feel that propulsion is a matter of mass. Look at particle accelerators! We build "tracks" to send these particles at speeds that are close to unfathomable. Lets say that we are doing it wrong and that there is a way to get a particle or particles up to speed without the long run up. These two particles occupy a space that is (for lack of a better word) impossible. They put so much mass into a confined space that they generate???? We will know when CERN fires off! Yea, I know we might end up making a black hole that eats the earth but what a way to go. Whats to say that space craft don't "propel" them selves by a system of putting "too much" mass in the right place?



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 12:40 AM
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WFA, you have good reason to be overly annoyed with the anti-information the good doctor gives to us. i personally found, however, that by trying to answer some of his questions to show they were irrelevant led to actual exotic propulsive concepts, although they came from my own train of thought and just the guidance of the doctor.

as for what the good doctor was talking about, there's a fundamental problem in your nanotube theory. although it's sound logic, plasma has a very peculiar affect in the vacuum of space which physicists have been grappling with for as long as i can remember. plasma, in space, expands very rapidly, not gaining in mass or energy yield. it expands, exhausts it's energy by doing so, and then collapses into radiation. here's where your logic is wrong doctor. i assume you suppose that when the plasma collapses in on it's self, turning to radiation in the process, it would compress the energy/particles traveling through the nanotube. as i mentioned before, compressed particles/energy moving in wave format would compress the wave and increase energy yield/potential.
the problem with this is that no body knows if the matter within the nano-tube tunnel would prevent the plasma from turning into radiation. plasma is an exotic form of energy, and humans don't know enough about it.
it's true that some scientists are making plasma engines for space vehicles but they're not confirmed working, but once again it's good thinking. if the plasma wasn't resolve enough to collapse into radiation the energy/particle moving through the nano-tube would begin to get exponentially compressed.
This doesn't help with what SpaceBot brought up though.

Most of these exotic propulsion ideas have some merit behind them, but fundamentally there's no consideration of point A to B. However, if anybody here has hit on the method(s) that more technologically advanced races travel by, but it's fair, i believe, to assume that there are methods to map A to B. Mapping by stars, or mathematically equating the necessary travel time in 'warped' speed to bring a person from A to B.

In a previous post by me, where i spoke of my Light Harmonics Propulsion concept, i used an example: If one were to travel at 3mph for 1second in the dimension of light, it would be like moving at lightspeed to the third power. so if alpha centuri was 3 light years away we know that we should travel for 2.9 seconds to get close enough to the star system.

oh, and WFA, i'm a he. if i was a she though i bet you'd all drop jaw :p



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 01:25 AM
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oh, and WFA, i'm a he. if i was a she though i bet you'd all drop jaw :p

Dammit crabmeat, you just had to go and ruin it... LOL



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 02:47 AM
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Crabmeat,

I neglected to add info regarding the application of a plasma state in relation to the actual "projectiles"

The Plasma serves to align the monoatomic chain whilst simultaneously stimulating the known qualitative anomalies... depending on situation of the device.

Plasma is not important, what is important is the purpose and role it plays in stimulating the desired action of a monoatomic chain... "quantum cohesiveness".

This chain is only sustained long enough to be propelled into a point of infinite divergence. Whereby an effect similar to that created by the "double-slit" experiment occurs. However, not all of the aligned particles will become waves... these 'survivors' will serve to amplify the energy output of said wave functions.

These 'survivors' also lose some of their energy to a wave form.

Who knows why?

The Universe is playing games with us. She keeps changing the rules.



*note: Plasma is preferred but not required.

ring.uvic.ca... I'm young in this picture.

[edit on 19-4-2008 by doctormcauley]



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 03:14 AM
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i see the possibility of making energies, particles, PHOTONS, monoatomic elements, break the boundaries of their physics as we know it. thinking practically, however, the propulsion device would have no application.
the material required to house/sustain humans for traveling, would have to be somehow attached to this energy wave that zips at ultra high speeds.

the engineering prospects of putting such a propulsion concept are beyond me.

i'm assuming the energy would have to be pushing a vessel as Newtons law proclaims. if this is so, there would have to be emissions, and fuel (in this case the wave particles zipping through the quantum tube), would have to feed the quantum engine in a steady stream and at the same time ensure that heat and gravitational affect of such high energies wouldn't destroy the whole vessel.
come up with a working patent for an engine that could do that and NASA will hire you. I guarantee it.



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 03:20 AM
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Come up with a patent for something like that and you can sell it for $56 000 to a corporation who will lock it up and bury it.

If I worked for NASA and developed something like this in their employ - and then told you kids - I would be imprisoned for violating the confidentiality agreement they would have had me sign.

I have had a full career and made a mint. Far more than NASA would be willing to pay me.

ring.uvic.ca... This is me. This is why I won't ever join the dark side (NASA).



[edit on 19-4-2008 by doctormcauley]



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 03:26 AM
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or get your legs broken


what many individuals don't understand is that if you go public, and you go about it the right way, such technologies cannot be bought then buried.



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 03:47 AM
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Tell that to my colleague, Dr. Eugene Mallove.

He did what I'm doing and he was just murdered for it.

He even went on TV.



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by doctormcauley
Time is money and this stuff takes time. I could be working on kidney implants right now... making money, instead of trying to teach the internet a new trick.
Continued...
I have had a full career and made a mint. Far more than NASA would be willing to pay me.

ring.uvic.ca... ... This is me.



A chemist who does kidney implants. Where, in your garage? Spare time?



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 10:34 AM
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Implants and Transplants are two separate things from two separate yet connected fields.

One is a medical field, the other (designing implants) is only related.

Such implants are made out of plastics, and certain inorganic materials (which I specialize in).


Implants are not Transplants. Use a dictionary Please.



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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NASA isn't the dark side. sure there's evil peoples in the organization but there's evil people everywhere, even in your starbucks coffee.

NASA is broken up into three groups, a, c and d. where's b? b is the gap represented by the gap of knowledge/responsibility/authority that people have.
a. is the highest, don't get paid much but have clearance to black projects and military installments. these individuals are very intelligent and won't talk to you even if you had a double D under a skimpy red dress.
c. is next, those who get alot of money but don't know squat. generally the individuals in c. are portrayed as the 'dark side' employers of NASA.
d. are the hardworking imbeciles straight out of college who don't know anything but how to follow orders.

I won't go into further detail.



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by doctormcauley
Crabmeat,

I neglected to add info regarding the application of a plasma state in relation to the actual "projectiles"

The Plasma serves to align the monoatomic chain whilst simultaneously stimulating the known qualitative anomalies... depending on situation of the device.

Plasma is not important, what is important is the purpose and role it plays in stimulating the desired action of a monoatomic chain... "quantum cohesiveness".

This chain is only sustained long enough to be propelled into a point of infinite divergence. Whereby an effect similar to that created by the "double-slit" experiment occurs. However, not all of the aligned particles will become waves... these 'survivors' will serve to amplify the energy output of said wave functions.

These 'survivors' also lose some of their energy to a wave form.

Who knows why?

The Universe is playing games with us. She keeps changing the rules.



*note: Plasma is preferred but not required.

ring.uvic.ca... I'm young in this picture.

[edit on 19-4-2008 by doctormcauley]


The aforementioned "double slit" experiment has created a whole controversy and also in the minds of people created a new paradigm on how should we approach the behavior of matter, not rightly so IMO because people do confuse the laws of the microcosm as researched in quantum physics with the macrocosmic laws as presented in plain physics, however in chaos theory the "butterfly effect" as proved in the Lorentz attractor as a proposed model of a hidden dynamic affecting weather conditions, can show us that an effect similar as the "double slit" from quantum physics might be actually at play in the macrocosm, but the conditions of its creation are probably totally independent from the conditions creating a butterfly effect. We simply experienced two similar effects, one in the microcosm and one in the macrocosm.
The intention of posting was not about pointing this out but for saying that a similar phenomenon but with a yet very elusive conception of how it may be working is proposed that it exists in UFO appearances. In this effect one vehicle transiting through our world might produce instantaneously "copies" of its appearance through other areas of the physical plain, according to this theory the effects are mostly felt near places where lay lines are joined and form powerful vortexes. It seems like the passing of an object of such properties creates a rippling effect that affects not immediately our world but an underlying fabric of interconnected plains of unknown texture (is the best description I can make) we can say that "vibrations" of the realization or part of the realization of an object in our physical plain is manifested through other places and is seen and probably felt. This is at the same time a "double slit" effect and a "butterfly phenomenon" IMO but the realization of how this can be is yet impossible.

I predict that there might be two prime and different schools of thought of achieving FTL propulsion in the future. One being by studying and utilizing the physical manifestations of energy of our planet (lay lines) and the other one of producing the raw effects of FTL to an object regardless of any natural (planetary) power manifestation present.

In the later IMO the most successful way should be by fooling nature, isolating the reality that a desired vehicle should reside in and applying forces in this new created medium for it to be moved and to behave like a wave faster than light. we have yet to discover or even produce waves faster than light though, its a long road ahead. We have to preserve anything of the reality the desired object to be moved resides in and encapsulate this in another medium that no drags from the physical word will apply. Also find a way to interact with the the physical reality we are originally a part of. this idea is very well analyzed in Star Trek and I have yet to see a better presentation of how these things would exist at least in theory.

[edit on 19-4-2008 by spacebot]

[edit on 19-4-2008 by spacebot]



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by spacebot
 



not immediately our world but an underlying fabric of interconnected plains of unknown texture (is the best description I can make) we can say that "vibrations" of the realization or part of the realization of an object in our physical plain is manifested through other places and is seen and probably felt.


This "innerspace"you talk about could be considered "sub-sace"it is postulated that there is a neutral dimension that holds the fabric of our space together,one were our laws do not apply.

Also on propogating waves FTL.........I dont think you need to find any that travel FTL...........if there are any they will be encompased in its own medium(dimension)I believe if we can create a "bubble"around a craft-thus making our own micro-universe and somehow propel that bubble by constricting and contracting the space in it...........we can move FTL,we are not violating the laws of physics,rather as you said "fooling nature",by creating our own universe around the craft it simply moves space...........not the craft.....there is no speed limit on how fast space can move,just how fast you can move through space.......this seems more feasable than creating a wormhole.I would like you thoughts on this.



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 09:26 PM
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there is no speed limit on how fast space can move,just how fast you can move through space


I like very much this quote!
Is it yours?



In reality space moves all the time and according to any points of reference it might actually move close to light speed and why not even beyond it?
Is there any given locality or distance referenced where the Einsteins aproximation of speed of light should apply? NO! This would demand the compartmentalization of space in sectors where speed of light applies for it to work! Therefore the speed of light limit is an illusion of our perceptions understanding space and time.

(did I make any sense?)



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by spacebot
 


Yea its my quote.........lol.


Yea I think you were just stating pretty much what I was trying to say-just in a different way.............................so what do you think about utilizing a propulsin system to exploit this theory??



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 12:26 PM
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In reality space moves all the time and according to any points of reference it might actually move close to light speed and why not even beyond it?

the logic in this statement is fundamentally wrong. if space were moving at any speed above no speed then the light that travels through space would have to be travelling faster than it actually does travel.
what i mean is if you're on a moving subway car, and the subways moving at 50mph, but your just sitting there, you're still, in a manner of speaking, moving at 50 mph. if you start walking along the train car at 3mph then you're essentially moving at 53mph.

if space did infact move then it wouldn't matter as speed is relative to the traveler/observer. it could be moving at 10000mph but relative to us, it's completely still, and relative to light it doesn't move at all. seeing as humans are self centered creatures it's fair to say as a law, that relative to human perception, space is still, light moves at the speed of light, etc etc.



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