Thoughts On Exotic Propulsion Systems...

reply to post by Crabmeat


Thats a great way of explaining things. That technicaly means that if we could use light to get to light speed somehow then we could use our own means to get even faster.

Not sure on how you would go about that though.

-fm

It does illustrate an interesting concept, similar to what was being discussed before where one would theoretically wrap the craft in light, which is already moving at light speed.

Several factors remain yet unsolved for:
1) How to transfer the velocity of the sheath to the velocity of the craft to begin with
2) How to propel the craft faster than light once the theoretical system takes you to light speed
3) How to contain the 'light sheath' while still allowing the light to be the outmost layer of the craft

While all of the potential mechanisms in this thread are just theory, I find it helpful to stretch the imagination from time to time.

I'm preparing a report on a possible method of propulsion, that we know works in our atmosphere, but we're not sure if it will work in space. I'll post it either tonight or tomorrow. I think it has good application potential for use in a SOLP (Sub-Orbital Launch Platform, I coined the term myself years ago).

Getting out of the gravity well of Earth is about 90% of the problem in order to test out any of these concepts in open space. In that light, perhaps exotic (non-combustion) options should also be discussed in this thread as to how to place a test vehicle into orbit.

-WFA

Yea Funky Monk, read my earlier post around pages 3 or 4 where i presented my Light Harmonics Propulsion concept.

as for you're questions, WFA, i'll work them out now:

the velocity of the sheath is NOT transfered to the velocity of the craft. infact the craft itself doesn't move. the light is channeled through the optic cables, and then the cables, containing the light speed, are vibrated. if string theory is correct, the velocity of the light paired with the vibrations shouldn't actually vibrate the vessel but the space around the vessel, unfolding the folded, hidden dimensions string theory exclaims are existing.

following the natural law of conformity (the world and galaxy and universe for that matter, tends to follow a route which is catered to the comfort, or best circumstances of the universe) the vessel, breaking the bonds of the 9 spatial dimensions string theory puts us in, would naturally enter the fold of space that consists of light, rather than the super gravity or time dimensions.

once in this dimension, the slightest push of speed for the slightest amount of time would be like traveling exponential distances of LY (light years). my sample before, although the math isn't right was: If you travel for 1 second at 3mph in the dimension of light, relative to the 9 spatial dimensions we normally reside it, it would equate to traveling at the speed of light to the third power for 1 second. How this thrust would be implemented, i'm not sure, but it would have to not obstruct the sphereoid that the light makes around the vessel. perhaps the vibration would act as the propellant.

As for your third question, my EPS (exotic propulsion system) tackles that. the light is funneled through optic cables, new optic cables, not like the ones that give us fast internet. those cables are too heavy, have too many imperfections, and are not durable nor flexible enough to withstand the precise vibrations.

signing off, i have some work to do

Well what IS speed?

Its time over distance right?

So what does gravity do to time?

What is "speed" without time as a factor, or at least alot less of it?

If you take time out of the mix, suddenly (lol) speed, even faster than light becomes possible, with out violateing the Einstienian speed limit.

Example:

You are in NY city, you have a time dialation device on your wrist watch, you slow time to a speed so slow you are unable to detect its progress out side the bubble you are in. You walk at a leasurly pace across America to LA, then release your time bubble. In a practicle sence you just blew the speed of light out of the water on foot by crossing the continent in under one second, yet inside your bubble you never went over 5mph, for all the mounths it took you to walk.

Don't believe the hype from "scientists" that "they" couldn't be here because of Einstien, its not true. The "speed" of light is varible, its how they measure gravity, with a laser going around mirrors being timed by an atomic clock. Woops thier own device blows a gaping hole in thier own argument about the denial of EBE presance @ Earth.

Its a travisty, its sham, its a mockery, its a travishamockery! Unplug from the matrix if you dare, you don't need Morphious, but there is no going back!

reply to post by Crabmeat


Great post. I was thinking about that first part of you post the other day. If you could find a good way to move light through those optic cables you might have a very nice litle system on your hands.

HellHound63S thats a good point you have raised there. Even if you are traveling at light speed you still have to physicaly spend the time moving somewhere.
The only prob with that is wouldnt you still age while in this dilated time field - So you might spend ages moving at light speed, but you would still age. Maybe you could over come this by traveling slightly slower then light speed. Or possibly you could have basicaly two craft, one flying inside the other - one is traveling a +light speed while the other is moving inside that craft at slower then light speed to keep the passangers time perspective right.

Sorry if the above dosnt make sence.

-fm

it makes sense, but the problem with that is if an outer vessel is is in another time scale than the interior vessel, the outer vessel would move incredibly fast or slow (depending on which layer is moving in a different time) relatively to the inner vessel. because of this the vessel's inner and outer shells would rip at eachother and ultimately separate.

monk, you're also correct in pointing out time dilation in hellhounds statement. scientists know that objects moving at the speed of light experience human standard time at extremely slower speeds, meaning, the faster you go at light speed the slower time will move for you. i don't know the exact figures but if you spend 1 hr in a speed of light bubble, outside the light bubble 10years would have passed.

physics theorizes that moving above the speed of light, even slightly would further the time dilation to such an extreme that time in of its self would stop to function for the individual moving at suchs speeds. even faster than the point of time stopping for the individual, it's theorized one would begin to go backward in time.
it's mind boggling but it's all based on Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity. relativity compares one state of experienced existence to another state of experienced existence. simple depiction: if a vessel is moving through the complete darkness of space, he has nothing to guage his speed. if another vessel is moving in the opposite direction, the first vessel finally has something to guage it's speed. they relate to eachother.

my light speed harmonic propulsion concept relies on the 'fact' that string theory is real. 'fact' is in quotes because nobody knows if it's fact, as it's theoretical physics. let it be known that many inventions came from the invention of string theory.

in super string theory there are 9 spatial dimensions. then there's time, light and super gravity. these three are interwoven with the 9 spatial dimensions but not with eachother. because of this, if one was to enter the dimension of time, don't ask me how, they would be able to move freely through out time itself. don't ask me what this means, i said previously i dont believe the notion of time travel is achievable, period. i can't see why anyone would bother attempting to travel through time. i'll talk about this another time if someone starts a thread on time travel. if you enter the dimension of light, you're not within the dimesion of time nor super gravity, meaning travelling at light speed, or faster, assuming one could move inside the dimension of light, would have no time affect on the individual. infact i believe the material such a vessel would use to go into the time dimension would still be able to retain the 'laws' from whence the material came from. i never considered what enterting the super gravity dimension could reward, but alot of things come to mind.

i hope this cleared up some things.

[edit on 21-4-2008 by Crabmeat]

reply to post by WitnessFromAfar


The Tesla drive system is not so Exotic if it is being used every day
in UFO flights.

But since no one talks about it it must be exotic.
So here goes.
Its a static drive system.

There may not be much power involved since a coil winding flat
automatically increases the voltage at the center for every turn and
decreases the current. The center has no connection at all, its just
jamming the air with high electric fields. The ether way with coils.

The surrounding air is electrified and breaks apart into normal air ions
and perhaps an ether particle separation.

This is done on its own accord as seen in Jacob's Ladder effects
(why not Tesla's ladder, who is the Jacob? ).

The electrons are pumped out the top of the saucer as in old TV
tubes in a DC pulsed Tesla bulb. And you though Tesla didn't use DC
because of Edison. Its for darn sure Tesla never told Edison any of this
secret.

Thats it, disturb the beam magnetically or between electric plates and
you move. The craft is one gigantic ball of electric charge.

What does a charge do if its moved. Any movement creates a current.

The UFO might be detectable electrically.
Wait for the next flyover, if you see some trails being generated
a magnetic wave might come you way.

Jacob's Ladder:

Jacob of Beersheba of the old testament as far as i can remember, so said cos the ladder looks like a 'ladder onto heaven' or some such.

That and as far as i can tell the original Jacobs ladder is a wooden toy of connected blocks or something which would 'unwind' together if thats the correct term.

There is also a plant named after it...

Tesla wasnt much into plants or wooden toys.

Crabmeat:Your system sounds good,but your statement about walking in a subway car going 50mph and walking 3 mph in it makes your speed 53 mph is incorrect,you walking 3 mph in the car does not have any effect on the time it takes to get to your destination.You are still going 50 mph do you see what I am saying?

Also if space itself can move FTL....it doesnt mean everything else in it has to.It is in essence another dimension(the bubble of space we are in)outside of this "space"bubble.Within this though,our known laws apply.Do you see how this intertwines with superstring theory?


Picture blowing bubbles.......each bubble is a universe.........we are IN one of those bubbles,where each one as its own set of laws(or maybe the same ,I dunno)But outside the bubble.........the air(in this example) they are floating in,there is no limit on how fast they can move because time and matter does not exsist,or in the same way it does inside the bubble-thus the problem of GR and SR is non-exsistant.You have to think on a huge scale-but minaturize it for human comprehension(sp?)

that's what i said, and i WAS correct

by walking at 3mph on the subway, in the direction the subway is moving, it is like you're moving 53 mph instead of 50. the destination is also reached faster, as the destination hits the front of the subway before it hits the back.
ofcourse you have to wait for the train to stop and the doors to open anyway, but that's a technicality i purposely left out of my analogy as it's irrelevant to the point i was trying to put onto the table.

reply to post by Crabmeat


LOL With all of my time spent on the Subways of Manhattan I must comment.

Crabmeat's analysis was correct, according to my own personal testimony. I used to work at the South end of the 14th St. Union Station Train. But I lived at the North end of the Astoria Train I got off on.

So routinely, day after day, I would get onto my train at the South end of the train, and as the train was moving, I would walk from the back of the train all the way to the front. By the time I got over to Astoria, I had reached the front of the train, and the North end of the stop.

So in fact I was accomplishing two journeys in the same time period, the journey from 14th st to Astoria, and the journey from the back of the train to the front of the train.

Sorry, I'm off topic in my own thread
But I just had to jump in on that one. I knew all that time riding the subway would eventually payoff

-WFA

reply to post by WitnessFromAfar


Okay,but that still doesnt disprove my theory on creating an artifical bubble of space around a craft.

reply to post by jkrog08


You're right it most certainly does not

-WFA

Originally posted by Absence of Self
Jacob's Ladder:

Jacob of Beersheba of the old testament as far as i can remember, so said cos the ladder looks like a 'ladder onto heaven' or some such.

That and as far as i can tell the original Jacobs ladder is a wooden toy of connected blocks or something which would 'unwind' together if thats the correct term.

There is also a plant named after it...

Tesla wasnt much into plants or wooden toys.

Type in Jacob's Ladder on Youtube and see plasma arc up between
two wires.

That is the Jacob's Ladder that should be Tesla's ladder because Tesla invented it before 1900.

The question is why has Tesla been erased from human history
involving his own devices.

Just because the FBI took all his papers.

Tesla made a movie on his AC arcing devices with Paramount and
the studio quickly made Frankenstein movies and stole the name
of the Ladder.

(Guitar String) Pluck Drive:

the vessel will be a cockpit with two wings pointing forward on either side of the cockpit. at the wing tips are an array of devices surrounded in a shiney :p, metallic sphere, perhaps copper would work the best. these devices are:
Matter Repulsion Magnet -- this would ensure that any particles hurtling through space don't touch the sensative parts of your vessel
Gravity Amplifier -- this will draw more and more gravity to these two orbs at the wings tips. it will be equiped with an auto shutdown where all the attracted gravity is released all at once.
Computer Program -- this computer program will ensure that the amount of gravity attracted will be enough for the Pluck. you plug in the desired coordinates, and the computer computes the amount of gravity needed to Pluck to the desired place in space.
attached to the cockpit will be an engine facing the front of the vessel. when the engine is turned on and set to gravity attraction mode, if it creates a strong enough field fast enough it would be anchoring itself in space time. the reverse engine is then turned on and pulls the ship back. it would be ideal if the reversed engine is one very quick pulse of push, as it would strain the ships hull less.
the engine shuts off and the gravity source is instantly shut off, but not before the vessel is suddenly hurtled toward it. once the gravity field is gone the vessel goes ZOOOOOOMing on the ride of a fast quick pull.
Pluck Drive

reply to post by Crabmeat


How would this allow the vessel to travel FTL???

It sounds feasable,but I dont see how it would achieve FTL,maybe lightspeed at,then you still have to deal with the realtivilistic effect.Unless your grav-shield compinsates for that.

Also that sounds alot like warping space.........kinda like my idea.

it's not FTL speed....
but it'd be cheap and affective way to go to the moon, mars, and travel our solar system with greater ease.

Well the way my time dialation bubble gets around Einstien is tricky.

The person in the bubble never goes over 5mph, BECAUSE of the time inside the bubble seeming normal to them, it is normal, they only go as fast as they can walk- to the universe. They are protected from Einstien by the time sheer from inside to outside the time bubble, see? Relativity is bypassed by the extreme time dialation, so no speed limit is violated, since we took time out the the equation. TIME over distance, but in this case, WHAT TIME?

Releativaty only applies when time is even from one observer to the other. Now the real flaw in my FTL travel example is being able to see through the bubble to navigate, since its basicly an event horizen (we were useing gravity to slow the time) and the photons your eyes needed to see would violate Einstin's speed limit for you to see threw the bubble, slick huh? You might need a flashlight and a rebreather lol.

The other problem is what would you be walking on? The ground you would go over would be atomized across your event horizen and truned to X-rays as you pased over it, luckily since its being generated by your watch your feet never hit the event horizen, maybe you would hover in place, or fall to the center of the earth? No clue there.

An object like, say a photon or a rocket, can never move through space @ FTL, BUT... space can move through space faster than light. So, I theorize that you might be able to travel in the gravity/time bubble by "warping" the bubble, sound familiar? We all thought the Enterprise was so fast turns out its sitting perfectly still as it zips past you! So, how do they see to manuver, how does Kirk or Picard recieve the navigation data without violateing Einstienian limits, from inside thier warp bubbles?

Maybe its like Star Wars hyperdrive they have to plot thier course perfectly before the jump, and can only jump as far as they can see, every particle they might turn to x-rays on the way? Or maybe they don't care about a few particles, just the big stuff? Or maybe they only even would care about the really big stuff like comeing out inside a star?

So many questions, so little TIME.

reply to post by HellHound63S


This theory strikes a chord with me HellHound63S.
Slightly off the main topic, but a good example of this particular theory...
Did you happen to see the final episode of Stargate SG1?

Weakest finale ever, IMHO, but the way they got around the energy weapon being fired at them involved exactly what you're talking about here. Carter somehow establishes a 'time bubble' around the ship, giving the team nearly a lifetime to figure out how to escape their momentary dilemma.

Anyway, just thought I'd point that out, as it's a good description in SciFi of the concept you're describing. Watch out, I think that TV just taught me something!

-WFA

Originally posted by HellHound63S

...

Maybe its like Star Wars hyperdrive they have to plot thier course perfectly before the jump, and can only jump as far as they can see, every particle they might turn to x-rays on the way? Or maybe they don't care about a few particles, just the big stuff? Or maybe they only even would care about the really big stuff like comeing out inside a star?

So many questions, so little TIME.

Well that would make a lot of sence. Imagine traveling at light speed and hitting a star or planet or even a piece of space junk?

-fm