Thoughts On Exotic Propulsion Systems...

I'm still trying to catch-up with what's being said in this thread but just want to thank WFA for starting up this topic and to also thank those others here who have made some very thought provoking contributions to this thread also.

Yet, this is not to say that this stuff is a piece of cake even for non-science "layman" like myself who probably has a little more of a background in "physics" than many out there... the following is a run down on those courses I've had in this area that one would assume should benefit ones understanding of a lot of the material being covered in this thread:
High School -- general physics
College (undergrad):
Physics and the Universe
Physics and Religion
Forensic Physics
College Calculus
Quantitative and Qualitative statistics courses
Grad school
A few more Quantitative and Qualitative statistics courses
Community College (to work week-ends at my dad's office taking x-rays for extra pin money for a number of years.:
Physics for the Health Sciences
One academic year of radiation technology courses in an x-ray tech. program.

Granted I'm no spring chicken and all of the above courses were taken in another "past-life", one would think that even someone like myself with at least a basic briefing in General Physics and Quantum Mechanics should be able to digest this material introduced in this thread with ease albeit on a beginner's level -- but this is not exactly true, at least in my case, and I'm having to look up things like "singularity" and so on.... stuff that I knew the definitions for before in the past but have since long forgotten what those terms mean.
This said though, this is a very important topic in Ufology so I'm taking the time now to review over everything very carefully here. A lot of good concepts have been introduced here but I have many, many questions too.
A star and flag for WFA
A very educational -- and a very significant and worthwhile focus for this forum!



[edit on 13-4-2008 by Palasheea]

"If I give you information in question form, it is to help you learn by yourself a set of concepts that can be easily understood with a minimum of research."

This is known as scaffolding in developmental psychology and is a popular used method, but it needs constant refinement, it's like me saying to you heres history, read that and tell me what you think.

I merely asked for which part were you applying? in what way are you utilizing ORME? there are many possibilities, from what I have seen, this has not been explained.

thanks. EMM

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
"If I give you information in question form, it is to help you learn by yourself a set of concepts that can be easily understood with a minimum of research."

This is known as scaffolding in developmental psychology and is a popular used method, but it needs constant refinement, it's like me saying to you heres history, read that and tell me what you think.

I merely asked for which part were you applying? in what way are you utilizing ORME? there are many possibilities, from what I have seen, this has not been explained.

thanks. EMM

That would be great!! I'm ready!!

reply to post by Palasheea


You and me both mate, I'm still waiting for doctormccauley to refine his original search for me

and if I haven't already said this, flagged!

ElectroMagneticMultivers, thank you so much for asking those questions.

I got involved yesterday with real life, and ran out of time to participate here in this thread.

Many of the questions you asked are questions I would have asked myself. In fact, I must state that I'm highly suspicious of the Dr. Macauley character. I'll elaborate.

1) There was never an answer to the thread's question.

That's a big one I just can't get past. Someone comes into a thread (any thread, not just this one) and starts throwing out vague references to something NOBODY knows but is somehow supposed to be on a 12th grade level and we should feel insulted for not understanding it.

Honestly, I'm not sure what that guy was even trying to say. Here's what I asked for in the original post:
"So for this thread what I'm looking for is 2 things:
1) Mechanism for Exotic Propulsion
(Warp Drive, Ion Engines, Solar Sails, Nuclear Wake Riding, Wormholes, etc.)
2) Length of time it would take that species to reach Earth, assuming that they were coming from Planet X above (4.22 light years away)."

We got neither answer from Macauley, and since it was a theoretical question anyway, I'm not really sure why he couldn't just answer the question.

It may not appear this way to the un-critical eye, but when starting a thread I spend a lot time phrasing my original post exactly the way that I want it And usually for reasons like this.

So, with due respect Dr. Macauley, if you'd like to return to this thread, and to answer those questions, I'd be more than happy to hear your suggestions.

But if you cannot even describe a workable system in generalities, than I'm sorry friend but it is you who is actually de-railing the thread. This particular thread is about discussing systems that could work (whether they obey known physical laws or somehow bypass them).

It's a thought experiment. Nobody is trying to compromise your patents.
But if you don't explain how the system theoretically works, I'm not sure how you expect any of us to understand what your talking about.

ElectroMagneticMultivers, thanks for getting at the same general point in my absence, and for attempting to rationalize the Doctor's posts into the workable system that I originally asked for.

Oh yes, and HELLO PALASHEEA! So nice to see you I was hoping that you might become involved in this thread, and would elaborate on possible methods that an entity might take in order to travel here through dimensions or 'materialize'. I'm not sure on the proper terminology, even though I find your theory more and more credible all of the time.

I took special note in an earlier post to make sure to mention your hypothesis. I'd appreciate it very much if you could postulate for us on how they might travel. It's too bad that Jeff Ritzman isn't active here anymore. I know that he was working on just this question when last I spoke to him.

I'm glad you stopped in though Palasheea!

-WFA

I've been reading up on what doctor mccauley was talking about and this effect is incredible, the implications of this research is fantastic, I'll post the link so you can have a look.

Thats the main reason I was interested in what he had to say, ORME (orbitally rearranged monoatomic elements) are effects of a process used on precious metals. They are atoms stripped of their 'microclusters' which start to exhibit multiple properties, not necesarily compliant to their state (solid/liquid). They have shown to exhibit resistance to gravity and show traits of not being in our spatial dimension, space/time.

anyway heres the link (many more, follow link) , it can explain it better than I can!!

www.halexandria.org...

thanks. EMM

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers


Thank you EMM, all that any of us are after in this thread (sorry to speak for everyone, but it seems that way, please anyone correct me if I'm wrong here) is the answer to 'what might be possible', and 'what might be testable'.

I was really just looking for some explanation for the system involved in the theory. The questions asked by the Doctor (perhaps good ones, for those already 'in the know' on what he was talking about) did not explain the system, nor did they (in my frame of reference) even hint at the system (or mechanism) involved.

I'll certainly take a look at this link today. I'm actually off now to go to the mountain range that I think we might be looking at in the Battle of Los Angeles thread (I've finally got the time to do it! ). But I'll check back in on this thread later this evening and read up on the link.

ATS is all about sharing information, (especially theoretical question threads like this one) and I appreciate your putting some information behind that particular discussion. I can tell that you are seeking evidence and denying ignorance. I thank you for that. I'll do my best to deny my own ignorance regarding this theory as soon as I get back from my field work

-WFA

I was catching up on this forum and saw someone mentioned the use of vibrations to tap into other spatial dimensions.

this has been tested, and it does seem pliable. Scientists have built a room, placed random objects in it, and blasted the room with sound waves from all directions. at certain frequencies the objects began to float and fly about the room as if unaffected by gravity.

string theory supposes that by vibrating empty space one can begin to unfold the folds in space which make alternate dimensions possible. although mathematically sound, to vibrate any sort of actual mass to the frequency required to send that mass into an alternate dimension, would ensure destruction for that mass way before the dimensional vibrating frequencies are reached.

Humans jumping throughout the galaxy through vibrations is, although mathematically sound, physically impossible.



One thing I've been wondering about, our physical bodies, as studied through science resides in the 3 spatial dimensions that we know of. Is it sound to presume that there are components to our existence which resides in other dimensions, like the Soul? If so, what are the properties of that spatial dimension, and would those properties allow us to beam our consciousness throughout the galaxy without being afflicted by time/space?

I've heard of out of body experiences, alas there's no scientific proof of anything actually occurring.

Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar
ElectroMagneticMultivers, thank you so much for asking those questions.


Oh yes, and HELLO PALASHEEA!

So nice to see you

I was hoping that you might become involved in this thread, and would elaborate on possible methods that an entity might take in order to travel here through dimensions or 'materialize'. I'm not sure on the proper terminology, even though I find your theory more and more credible all of the time.

I took special note in an earlier post to make sure to mention your hypothesis. I'd appreciate it very much if you could postulate for us on how they might travel.

It's too bad that Jeff Ritzman isn't active here anymore. I know that he was working on just this question when last I spoke to him.

I'm glad you stopped in though Palasheea!

-WFA

Hi WTF! Too bad J.R. isn't around now as I'm sure he would have a few interesting thoughts to contribute to this thread.
I hope that I will be able to add some information on this topic that will show support to some of my own thoughts in this area but will only do so when that opportunity arises. If it's pertinent to the current conversation at hand at any point in time, I'll be sure to inject a few comments if I think such information is of some value to the conversation!

To those of you who have researched, even slightly some of the ideas that were discussed here, I commend you all.

Apparently a misunderstanding regarding the application of the various systems discussed has arisen.

This if for a good reason, and yes I was using a basic psyche technique in my presentation. At least you noticed the effort... thank you.

Now, why has this misunderstanding arisen? On purpose.

I purposely did not clarify many of my points, causing you to do some learning which you apparently have now done. Now you want to know the rest.


Concerning the use of monoatomic elements;

Such elements are the primary means of propulsion within a spacecraft.
Such technology CANNOT function on earth, even in a vacuum, although tests regarding yield and energy can be conducted here on Earth.

Ask yourself why you have never heard of a particle accelerator being put in space... maybe one already has.

How would you align such unstable elements and prepare them for propulsion? Nanotubes.

A specifically constructed nanotube can be selected to hold the elements in alignment, and then be converted to plasma as both a means of heating and further aligning the elements present within.

The materials used for such a housing mechanism must be carefully selected according to its willingness to react with monoatomic elements.

Stabilization of this "chain" is key in such device. Several other events can only happen if precipitated by this process. These events are listed in the thread, some in "question" form.

I will add more later, I'm just glad to see we are starting to get back on the same page.

reply to post by doctormcauley

Monoatomic elements are interesting indeed, what can we do with these things?

These monoatomic elements do display varying mass with temperature, lack of chemical reactivity, less mass than their conventional atomic matter counterparts, healing properties and other strangeness. These m-state elements can be classified as their own form of matter, a fifth form in addition to the known states of matter, solid, liquid, gas and plasma.

What can be envisioned for these elements?

We supercool a monoatomic element (m-state) and it loses mass (its a strange attribute indeed). So now we have this cool, lower mass particle sitting there. Now we accelerate it to high velocity and then release it. When its released it heats up and gains mass. So what we have is less energy to accelerate a particle (due to its lower mass) than it takes to accelerate that particle in a heated state, and it gains energy...

• It can be applied as a particle weapon, increasing its mass and potential energy before striking a target.

• Propulsion: It can also be a faster than light particle, if we accelerate the particle in a supercooled state to 99.99% the speed of light, then release it, as it heats it could achieve faster than light speeds (if we have some other advances in physics and tech.).

• Superconducting / Superinsulating properties

The question is: "Where is this mass going when an m-state element is cooled?" That question brings with it some aspects of quantum physics. Can these m-state elements help in our understanding of quantum effects, teleportation, entanglement and the like?

Thank the Gods, I am not alone.

You are on the path now kids.

Remember when I said that if you could trick the universe into thinking you were heavier than you are, you could exceed light speed...

Well you would be surprised to know that you don't have "alter the vibrational state" of a vessel, as you only have to trick the universe into think that your Primary Drive mechanism is heavier than it is.

The gov. must be very happy that civilians now know this stuff

Im not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread yet or not, but string theory postulates that the only major difference at the sub atomic level has to do with vibrational frequency.

An extra-dimentional traveler (as opposed to a star-to-star traveler) would only need to change the rate at which it vibrates. UFO's (if real) may not have to travel 'such distances' but may only have to change the rate and/ or frequency at which it vibrates.

Imagine you were One atom heavier than you actually are...

...You can now travel the "speed of light+1atom@assumedrate"

that is to say, the universes is now imposing limits that greater your "potential" for speed.

That is to say, being lighter than the Universe Assumes you are, you can now exceed the limitations imposed on you in your prior unaltered condidtion.

But remember,it is this "potential' is what has been artificially created, using processes previously discussed. You are not actually gaining mass.

[edit on 13-4-2008 by doctormcauley]

Think of a space journey as a constantly evolving equation;

Think of the Primary Drive impactions as a variating variable. That's right... variations within a variable (OMG my mind) that are constantly changing in relation to position of the vessel within space, the conditions of space within the vessel, and the elements occupying that particular small space which can be influenced by Humans.

So immediately after leaving you point origin, the equation begins, in fact it is practically solved by the time you are traveling in the right direction at a predicted rate of speed.

But just as your journey is not yet complete, the nature of any equation is that is must be continually balanced.

Balance, as it were, would be said to be maintained within the functions of such a variable(represented by multiple related equations... presenting a whole new set of problems), and so it is this particular part of the equation that continues to evolve until the final destination has been reached... or the equation has been "solved"...somewhat

But as you are only ever working with Probabilities, your equation will never be truly solved... as you cannot come to the same conclusions twice. However, your answers will be quite similar in each case.

This is Quantum theory at this point.

Originally posted by battlestargalactica
• Propulsion: It can also be a faster than light particle, if we accelerate the particle in a supercooled state to 99.99% the speed of light, then release it, as it heats it could achieve faster than light speeds (if we have some other advances in physics and tech.).

Okay, I read the main page of the article linked by EMM above, and I'll agree it's interesting. I've yet to read the rest, but I will post again when I do.

For now, the above post by BSG makes sense to me as a potential mechanism (I've got some suspicions from the main page that there may be more potential, but I've not finished the other pages yet, so I'll comment on that later).

I'm assuming BSG that you're proposing to accellerate the particle thrust stream using a device similar to an electromagnetic railgun, or a particle accellerator?

At this point I have many questions, and I'm intrigued enough to read more. I'll post again when I have more specific questions.

Dr. Maccauley, in the meantime, if you would elaborate on potential mechanisms (systems that exploit their potential) these metals can be used in I would appreciate hearing what you have to say.

-WFA

The link posted by emm is just general information, is old stuff (but new to people that haven't seen it before) and is not scientific website, but good info nonetheless.

There is science going on concerning m-state/monoatomic elements at universities and labs worldwide, it just doesn't hit the mainstream press, you really have to dig. A good site to start searches is xxx.lanl.gov... for scientific papers.

Maybe the doc has some good links too..?

[edit on 13-4-2008 by battlestargalactica]

I'm all for puting resources into the space program and missions etc. But the sad truth is, we need to make the next step in propulsion FIRST. Otherwise, its like using a canoe to cross the Ocean.

There has to be a unique method thats undiscovered. Maybe if your in a spinning device that spins at light speed it does something different to space time?

Originally posted by Badge01
Don't forget that regardless of speed, using propulsion systems, you'll take a large amount of time speeding up to FTL speed and then significant time slowing again to orbital speed.

You have to start slowing quite a distance away from the planet meaning you'd end up going at impulse speed for a fair distance to make orbit.

Im thinking most highly advanced craft can negate there mass to zero. So even at the speed of light a mass of zero multiplied by infinity = zero. And so acceleration and deceleration = instant. Just my 2cp.
Peace