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Thoughts On Exotic Propulsion Systems...

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posted on Apr, 16 2008 @ 04:04 AM
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...I couldn't resist...

How do you intend to move "space and "time" as opposed to the vessel?

As for the black hole, do you intend to create it? In space, or on earth and then bring it to space within a containment device?

And the inter dimensional aspect of it.... we shouldn't let that stop us.

Any dimension you could travel to would likely be so similar to ours that it wouldn't matter anyways.... unless it did.


Have you researched antimatter bombs? You'll likely find inspiration to help further your ideas during your time with such material.


[edit on 16-4-2008 by doctormcauley]




posted on Apr, 16 2008 @ 05:31 AM
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reply to post by doctormcauley
 


"how" is a problem and i don't pretend to know the answer...was hoping to trigger an idea from others who might be more savy to those kind of answers. i would like to think that some sort of anti-gravity device or such might get us in the right direction, seeing how gravity has a direct effect on time and space.



posted on Apr, 16 2008 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by battlestargalactica
 


Okay BSG, so I was on the right track with what you were talking about as far as the mechanism goes. Nanotubes do offer some interesting possibilities (as opposed to magnetic fields). I'm anxious to see experiments in that area. Thanks for elaborating


Nicely done on posting those propulsion concepts! Ion engines have always fascinated me. Between that and M2P2 propulsion, I'm convinced that Solar System exploration is a feasibly possibility. At any rate, I appreciate your posting those pics too
It's always nice to get an idea of what a physical system would look like to put things into perspective.

Great post, star from me!

-WFA



posted on Apr, 16 2008 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by spacebot
 


That's an interesting idea Spacebot, thanks for also illustrating the context your idea emerged from. It helped me to understand what you were talking about.

Thanks for your contribution. That's certainly a concept to think about. Very often when 'thinking outside the box' a person will come up with a mechanism before a theory as to how it will work. Even if these mechanisms don't turn out to be practical (my own earlier post included
) I do find value in exploring their possibilities.

Thanks for making me think!

-WFA



posted on Apr, 16 2008 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by Crabmeat
 


Excellent post Crabmeat!
I'm not sure I know how to make it work in the real world either, but what a fascinating idea!

I'm going to be thinking about this one all morning. Hiding inside of light, I wonder exactly what effects that would have? It's interesting to ponder.

Hey, it's no crazier than my thinking that we could somehow manipulate neutrinos


Thanks for qualifying your idea appropriately also. You really explained the concept well, whether it will work or not, thanks for an excellent description of the potential mechanism!


-WFA



posted on Apr, 16 2008 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by riotact1
 


This may not help you, but it helps me to think of space and time as the same thing (generally).

For Example, the location of Earth in the Solar System (let's just pretend for a minute that the Solar System itself is stationary, which isn't true, but is helpful for this explanation).

Right now (time) Earth is at a specific location relative to the Sun (place). As time passes the location of the Earth also changes (because the Earth is revolving and rotating. So within our Solar System, you could use a time coordinate (9:12AM on 04/16/08, for example) to reference where the Earth was at that time. Similarly, you could use a space reference (coordinates in 3-d space representing the Earth's location) to cite a specific point in time (when Earth was at that location in space).

Really, I see space and time as two different ways of describing the same thing, similar to Electricity and Magnetism being two different was of describing the same force.

You can extrapolate the Time/Space example above to include a Solar System in motion, and galaxies in motion, and so on. The farther out you go, the more you realize that the location the Earth holds in space at any given point in time is in fact a unique coordinate. All is in motion, and so when the Earth comes back around again next year, we'll occupy a different place in space at the same place in our orbit of the Sun.

I hope that makes sense


-WFA



posted on Apr, 16 2008 @ 12:27 PM
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WFA, thanks for the compliments.
i'd like to point out that 90% of UFO sightings are of vessel surrounded in orange light, seen on infared scanners (meaning infared light) and most sightings report that the vessel appears and dissapears.
this coincides with my propulsive theory, i think.



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 05:14 AM
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reply to post by WitnessFromAfar
 


I understand what you're getting at and I'm with you...
I've gave this a day to spin around in my mind and the one idea that could be used throughout the universe would be a device that uses magnetic fields to push and pull itself around...might be why ufos generally have a saucer shape, so they can go any direction along their horizontal plane in an atmosphere that would cause resistance. Would still need some sort of anti-gravity device to allow passengers to survive the high Gs that appear to be created by the crafts movements. The tech. needed for all the aspects of this craft would be far out in our future...the navigation alone would create quite a challenge.



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 11:33 AM
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Who here knows what happens when you force a particle to act in a wave function whilst in the vaccuum of space?

How does that Affect the impaction of the resulting wave/particle combo on an object?

How is is the emission source of these impactions affected, assuming they are constant and at and increasing rate?

Where does this excess energy come from?



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 02:47 AM
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"Who here knows what happens when you force a particle to act in a wave function whilst in the vaccuum of space?"

For a particle to act in a wave function, in an atmosphere or in the vacuum of space, it has to be one of two things:
a. energy
b. moving
as a particle moves through space, in atmosphere or without, without any sort of propulsion device, it has to be in wave format. take photons for example, if light didn't 'travel' in waves, it wouldn't travel at all.

How does that Affect the impaction of the resulting wave/particle combo on an object?
Depends on which of the above forementioned particles you're referring to. If for any reason the particle/energy has the property to pull in on it's self then it would start to get exponentially more powerful, drawing in that power from the wave motion of the said particle. the 'moving' (b) particle started to impact on it's self it would condense it's energy yield and zip through the space at increased velocities.

How is is the emission source of these impactions affected, assuming they are constant and at and increasing rate?

Rhetoric: by condensing the particle/energy you're increasing the potential yield of that particle. you're not giving more energy or potentiality to the said particle, you're just streamlining it for maximum efficiency. I don't know if the condensation of particles can be constant or exponential.

Where does this excess energy come from?

Read above.




I like the way you think.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 03:43 AM
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Thank you sir.

I often find myself posting questions I already know the answers to.

It just feels so wrong just giving away concepts and idea to those who aren't ready yet.

Have you ready my humongous post earlier?

This ties in directly with one of the drive systems discussed.

Here goes another?

We now know that the monoatomic elements has been arranged in a chain.
The chain has been stabilized within a nanotube. The nanotube will soon become plasma.
Plasma helps to further align a monoatomic chain whilst increasing the potential energy that can be accessed by us from this universe.

We are talking about an exponential increase depending on how long the elements can be held in this state before "impact."

But what are they impacting? Think Quantum.

Now take your famous double-slit theories and try to apply this to that.

The energy released is more than what is contained by the chain of elements and the plasma surrounding it. How could this be?


This is supposedly impossible. The law of thermodynamics prohibits it... and we are the only ones who actually enforce this law on each other.... strange.

A law saying what you can and cannot think about, as we have decreed it to be impossible.... before we had a even small percentage of the knowledge pertaining to quantum physics that we do now.

[edit on 18-4-2008 by doctormcauley]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 06:06 AM
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One of my designs faced several unforeseen problems.

It turned out that the system for monitoring and controlling particle discharge had to be wholly unmanned.

Even in proof of concept experiments, this was the case. It soon became apparent that we could not even have anyone in the same building who was aware of the nature of the experiments taking place. They in fact, had to leave the campus.

This anomaly persisted until we were made aware of the influence that we (My team and I) had over this experiment just by knowing about it and being in the vicinity of the tests.

We weren't even acting as an "observer," we were simply aware of the nature of the experiment.

We then concluded that such a system could only be possible if the "operational" controls were unmanned and the "pilots" completely unaware of the nature of the drive system they were using.

Such systems being highly complex and in need of constant re-adjustment and human attention, forced us to conclude that as a means of space travel, Humans aware of the nature of their engine would have to be at a minimum 1200 meters away from the device itself.

One earth, distances exceeding 400 meters would allow for the experiments to go ahead and the equipment to function as predicted.

This is was all hypothetical to a point, but nonetheless it was one of the conclusions drawn from this series of experiments.

Our hypothesis was not correct, but the observations and results were amazing. However, we considered the whole thing a success.

We merely included the reference to space travel (in our conclusion) as a possible use for such a device, and it wasn't until years later that I began refining the ideas for my own purposes.


[edit on 18-4-2008 by doctormcauley]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by doctormcauley
 


Okay, I've read your new series of posts here Mcauley, you're still not actually saying anything.

First and foremost, the 'double slit' experiment you are referencing has nothing to do with particles that have mass. You're talking about photons. Photons (energy, basically) propagate in wave form.

Particles of metal (and other solids with mass) do not propagate in wave form. They propagate linearly, according to Newton's laws.

So first, let's get through how you 'force' a particle to propagate in wave form...

There is another HUGE hole in what you're describing, that somehow our nanotubes (arranged to contain ORMEs) are going to turn into a plasma? How/when/why would this happen? Where does the energy come from to perform such a transformation?

And finally, YOU HAVE NOT EVEN REMOTELY OUTLINED A MECHANISM FOR APPLICATION IN SPACEFLIGHT.

So basically, you still have yet to (even theoretically) answer the question this thread is asking.

Let me be clear. I've got physics books and the internet, all of us do.
None of us are looking to be lead around by a 'carrot' (no matter how appealing the carrot) as if we were some idiot donkeys pulling your wagon.

If you'd like to start a thread about 'Who can answer all of these questions I think I have answers to?' than DO IT. Start your own thread. Let's see who gives you a reply.

If you'd like to participate in this thread. Get on topic. I'm alerting the Moderating Staff here of your participation in this thread (something I've put off doing until now, giving you the benefit of the doubt and hoping you might decide to answer the question in the original post), so if you'd like to continue participating in this thread, I'm going to outline for you one more time how to do it:

1) Submit a description of a mechanism for space travel
2) If you'd like, you can also offer the time it would require a craft to use your mechanism to travel from Alpha Centauri (home of hypothetical species 'bob') to Earth.

That's the thread. That's the whole frickin idea.

This isn't a question and answer session with Doctor Mcauley. There is a 'New Topic' button on the main page where you can create your own thread for those purposes.

-WFA

[edit on 18-4-2008 by WitnessFromAfar]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 11:22 AM
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I knew you would say something to that effect... So predictable.

Ask crabmeat to explain it all to you. He's intelligent enough to understand it.

I hope it is painfully clear - due to the thread's title- that I am describing various mechanism's to be used in "Exotic Propulsion Systems."

If you don't understand it, just be patient. Someone smarter than you will eventually come along and explain it to you.

I never said anything about photons...

Please post a quote of me using the word...



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by doctormcauley
 


Actually you arent' describing a mechanism at all.

Here's an example of one:

Mechanism: Wormhole
How the Mechanism potentially works: We create a black hole, jump through it, enter the singularity, pass through that through the wormhole to the singularity at the white hole on the other end. Then we emerge at a different point in space time.
Travel time between Alpha Centauri and Earth: Almost instantaneous



Now, while there are problems we haven't yet worked out with the above Mechanism, it's a mechanism nontheless.

There have been various mechanisms described in this thread.
You've yet to submit one.

You just keep insulting people and saying that if we're not smart enough to somehow telepathically figure out what mechanism you're talking about then we should wait for someone (not you, of course, explaining yourself would be too much to ask apparently) to explain it to us?

Well I'm sorry but that just isn't good enough, and it isn't contributing to the topic of the thread (being the one who wrote those words, I'm pretty sure that I know what they say).

I mean seriously, look at this thread. Nobody is even participating anymore. Even Crabmeat was using a photon as an example of a particle moving in wave form. You suggested in your last reply to Crabmeat that he/she was correct. So there is your 'quote of when you said that'.

So I'll make it easier, you said that what you're describing applies to an above mentioned mechanism.

Which one?

One word answer please, I'm tired of sifting through your noise looking for a signal.

What is the name of your proposed mechanism, in one word?

Here are some options:
1) Wormhole
2) Warp Fields
3) Solar Sails
4) Folding Space

I could go on and on, as there have been MANY members who have followed the format, and actually answered the question with a mechanism. There are 7 pages to this thread, and at my last count there are about 11 different mechanisms being considered.

Pick one, and tell us how your theory applies.

This is your last chance before I use the 'Ignore' button for the first time ever.

-WFA



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 03:16 PM
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Well we should ask to some ppl related to Ben Rich, because it seems that at least he knew how to make it possible:


"We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an Act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity...Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do."


Oh... wait... national security issues. Yeah well... let's continue theorizing.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by JackHill
 


Cool! I'm not familiar with this quote. Or with Mr. Rich. If you can give me a link to his work I'll see what I can do about getting some of his people involved in the thread. That's a great idea!

-WFA



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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Hi all!

The problem is not really about having a device or system to travel through space faster than light.
Lets suppose we do have a complete system in theory that can be successfully utilized through machinery, we have all the energy consumption needs solved out and the computational power at place.

But we stand still doing nothing!

What we don't have is a way for navigating our device to travel from point A to point B.

Remember we are dealing with raw time and space here. We can manipulate it but we don't know of a way to push our vehicle to a desired point in an extremely large distance, so for us to prove we can travel in FTL speed.

How could we tell the navigation computer that this is Alpha Centauri for instance, our desired target, while the computer is sitting along with the ship in earths orbit?

We need signatures for this. We would need to acquire an energy signature from a database with a map of signatures we have already measured with some method or we have scanned in a way from a distance, OR we use the model I described above, through lay lines. If there is a method for natural wormholes to be created through the use of the intense energy of a planets lay lines then we would not have a problem in navigation. SO it could be a method where we both could have a unique signature and an external energy needed for us to accomplish the trip.
Every planet must have an unique energy signature and since lay lines are a byproduct of this planets energy/matter interaction then every destination must have a unique signature we could measure and archive in an universal database.


[edit on 18-4-2008 by spacebot]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by WitnessFromAfar
 


Short biography:


Upon graduation Rich was hired by Lockheed as a theromodynamicist. There he worked on a variety of projects - he was awarded a patent for designing a nichrome heating system which prevented Navy patrol plane crew's penises from freezing to their urine elimination pipes. He designed inlet ducts for the F-104 Starfighter, the C-130 transport aircraft, and the F-90 fighter.

...

In December 1954 Rich was seconded to the Skunk Works, the secret research and development section run by Lockheed's chief engineer Clarence "Kelly" Johnson. There he designed the inlet ducts for the U-2 spy plane. Then he led the effort to build large-scale hydrogen liquefaction plant for a proposed hydrogen-powered supersonic aircraft, codenamed Suntan. After this was canceled when hydrogen proved to be impractical, Rich was program manager for the propulsion systems for the U-2's successor, the SR-71 Blackbird. The idea to paint the high-speed aircraft's skin black, to help dissipate the tremendous frictional heat, was Rich's. He designed the engine inlet cones, the air conditioning system, and was the chief thermodynamicist for the project.

Later, as Johnson's successor as leader of the Skunk Works, Rich championed the early prototypes of stealth technology and led the development of the F-117 stealth fighter. The use of modern stealth aircraft technology was partially based upon the work of Pyotr Ya. Ufimtsev. Ironically, Pyotr Ya. Ufimtsev is currently teaching at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA), the same school that Ben Rich studied at for his graduate degree.



Just... nobody



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:20 PM
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Hello again Spacebot!

You are absolutely correct that each planet has it's own 'signature' in the readings we are already able to determine from a distance


In fact, I would not only agree with your argument, but I'd introduce a slightly easier method for determining coordinates. How about we use Stars instead of planets? We can see and analyze those a lot better (currently) and each Star (and some clusters of stars) have unique singatures in when their light spectrum is analyzed.

Might be an easier target to plot, if we could target 1AU from a star we can identify. Theoretically we could ascribe 6 spacial coordinates (just like in Stargate
) to any such target. I suppose the method of 'dialing' would be different for any mechanism we can get to work. But targeting should be fairly easy.


-WFA



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