The push towards materialism

Erm my question once again gets avoided...
Ah all well...
LoL!

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Erm my question once again gets avoided...
Ah all well...
LoL!

Maybe you should define your question better because i for one am confused. See on the one hand you say it's not a religion thing and then your posts seem to contain some sort of spiritulism. You ask are we being controlled by believing in only what we can see, then you say it's not against atheism. I'm very confused.

So come on define the question nice and clearly just for my own edification.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Here you go man.

Which is as follows, with a population that believes this is all there is would they or would they not be easier to control?

And to add the disclaimer so that you don't attack me for not including it.

I am by no means telling everyone they must run off and find "gawd", as I agree with you that organized religion is, well to put it nicely, tainted for the sake of control, but there is a question I think that is worth asking.

I asked you to define the question, not quote an already badly put question. Try starting all over and making it cler without quating yourself. You'll see below why i'm confused with what you ask.

Ok so my stance is this, no a population who believe in only what they can see, taste, smell and feel would not be easier to control. If you mean materialism like that.

If you mean matierialism in the modern sense (which is why i asked you to redefine your question as i'm still not sure which you mean), then yes it would be easier to control the population and i think we're seeing that in action. What we're seeing is a populous obsessed with possessions and celebrity. When they are confronted with a dificult truth or anything important they're encouraged to ignore it and buy a new piece of shiny technology.

That is the cancer of our modern age.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Badly stated eh? Your inability to divine what I meant by my simple question seems to be your failing rather than mine.
Considering your diatribe didn't even really cover what I was talking about.

So you say that the threat of death, to one that doesn't believe there is anything beyond death. has NO ability to influence their actions?

[edit on 14-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]

To attempt to reveal the actual topic for Wrath, I'll say this.

We are born.
We are raised by our family.
We go to school.
We go to church (Or don't).
We experience up to 100 years on Terra Firma, Earth, 3rd Rock from the Sun, etc.
We die.
We are buried or burned (Our corpse, material leavings, corpus delecti, etc).


......that's it. No spirit. No God. No Heaven...nuthin.

What if we are being pushed to believing that by some faction or another.

THAT, I believe, is the topic.

I kind of see it as the same argument as "Is there a conspiracy by Atheists to destroy Christianity?"

Carry on, as best as y'all can, to keep it on topic.

Cuhail

reply to post by WraothAscendant



" Wouldn't it be easy to control a population that did not believe in the concept of a soul? "

You mean easier than is being done now?

We [usa ] went from being a God fearing group and creating the best document and country ever on the planet, using the Bible and the Mayflower Compact as a reference and creating immense wealth for its' citizens to a country torn internally with divided issues which were created especially for the purpose of control and collapse.

I'd say a pretty good job of destroying what we were, has already happened, and I'd have to credit some hardened hearts and soul-less leaders for that smooth move.

Did I answer your question?

reply to post by Cuhail


Hmmm.
Considering I started this topic I think I should have a pretty good idea what its about. Don't you think?

It's all well and good that you think otherwise yet, you, like more than a few others avoid the simple question. Wouldn't a society built with only a belief in the here and now sense, with NO spiritual beliefs (IE no belief in a soul) be far easier to control than one that believed in some sort of after life?
Since they believe they have far less to loss if they believe such.

And for the umpteenth time I am not urging everyone to run off and find "gawd" or trying to morph it into some sort of evils of atheism rant thread.

It is merely a question more than a few don't want to answer apparently.

Though I did mess up on the naming of the thread but I have clarified at least twice now? And once in the initial post. And please take your condescension elsewhere if you wish to continue it.

[edit on 14-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Wow Wrath, relax. I thought you kept pointing to your original topic because people were avoiding the question. I just tried to help clarify the "Materialism" reference I thought you were refering to.
No attempt to insult or "suppress" you.

I also noticed it reminded me of the other thread. Again, just an observation on my part.

Do I believe that the ideas in your contention, or observation as it were(?) is how it really is?

I don't know.

But, I'll listen intently for you to expand on the topic.

Carry on, man, I'm listening.

Cuhail

reply to post by Cuhail


Erm I have stated my case?
And have had some pretty good answers toeing the line of what I was asking and offering some good reasons for current conditions pertaining to the question.

But the question I asked still goes unanswered.
I am not here to rant my beliefs.
I created this thread to get some thoughts.

I have stated repeatedly what I was talking about.
And PLEASE take your condescension elsewhere, if you wish to continue it.

[edit on 14-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Aw, come on guys, confusion confuses me.

I took it as originally referring to materialism in the sense of belongings, but it seemed to open into a general question also regarding life after death and the materialism of... ummm... material. As opposed to spirit/energy/lifeforce/???.

Did I lose track somewhere?

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


Erm I stated that in the OP and at least once afterwards.
Though you have contributed rather well considering your confused as to what I meant.

I am confused as to why you are confused any chance you could point to what I did to cause it?

[edit on 14-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]

I think Wraoth is pointing up both. That materialism leads to a spiritual-lessness that would make it easier for a government or another authority to do whatever they want. People are so wrapped up in materialism they forget about they other isms there are. ??

reply to post by WraothAscendant


So let me get this straight, i ask you to make your question clear becuase firstly i'm confused an secondly because you seem frustrated no one wil answer it and suddenly i'm put across as rather dumb? Come on mate just give me a clear question and i'll happily answer it all day long. Give a chance to us lesser rather dumb mortals.

Please just give me a clear question i can answer, i already said why i'm confused, check my earlier post.

Originally posted by wrathascendantIt's all well and good that you think otherwise yet, you, like more than a few others avoid the simple question. Wouldn't a society built with only a belief in the here and now sense, with NO spiritual beliefs (IE no belief in a soul) be far easier to control than one that believed in some sort of after life?
Since they believe they have far less to loss if they believe such.

See there you define it better but at the same time you make it sound as if no one was addressing it. Maybe it's becuase you put the question rather badly.

So i answer. As i said before it depends on the society, with religion a soceity can still be materialistic, without religion they can be materialistic. Either way the society is controlled.

In our current society people are fixated upon owning items, and this includes christians, atheists, agnostics, catholics and many other religious ideas. Buddhists are the exception i suppose, although i have met some buddhists who are dressed in the finest fashions, they to me seem the fashionable buddhists rather than the true buddhists

[edit on 14-4-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by WraothAscendant

I am confused as to why you are confused any chance you could point to what I did to cause it?

Well, I was reading the posts between you, Cuhail, and ImaginaryReality1984 and was suddenly not sure if I had it right or not. I'll take it from your reply to me that I did.

OK, back to normal confusion level. Carry on guys.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by WraothAscendant

I am confused as to why you are confused any chance you could point to what I did to cause it?

Well, I was reading the posts between you, Cuhail, and ImaginaryReality1984 and was suddenly not sure if I had it right or not. I'll take it from your reply to me that I did.

OK, back to normal confusion level.

Carry on guys.

TheRedneck

Well that's why i asked for a confirmation. Is it an intellectual crime to ask for a clear question so i could give a clear answer? I see i'm not the only one confused here, so a good clear question is always a good idea. Unless i'm wrong, afterall i have the IQ of a lemon.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Your taking my comments FAR into lands no where NEAR what I said........

I have stated my question repeatedly and in different forms btw.
I fail to see how you can not get what I am asking.

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Your taking my comments FAR into lands no where NEAR what I said........

I have stated my question repeatedly and in different forms btw.
I fail to see how you can not get what I am asking.

Ok ok, so forgive my absolute ignorance and utter lack of intellectual ability, imagine your'e talking to a child and aply your question again. Make it different and clear and i will happily answer it. Stop insulting me, making me seem unable to answre it and put your question out again, am i asking a great deal in requseting a question?

So i ask again, type out your question, without quoting yourself, in a new post. Making it clear and concise, if you can't do that then i find it rather insulting as i'm just asking a simple thing. I honestly will answer it all i can when i understand what you mean. I already told you why i found your question confusing.

Is it goign to cause you great harm to type it out, in full again, in original text?

[edit on 14-4-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Unless i'm wrong, afterall i have the IQ of a lemon.

Now I'm more jealous than confused.

Seriously, I think we've gotten the actual question nailed down. It's concerning materialism, as in the search for material things rather than spiritual things in life, but can easily be expanded to include the concept of materialism as a denial of a spiritual existence/afterlife, as those things are not material. And as such, it could include science over religion.

Wraoth, to be fair, let me know if this is not accurate. It's your thread, not mine.

TheRedneck

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Or how about I ignore you? Since seem to be little more than baiting me.

I NEVER said you were stupid.
I NEVER said any of those other things.

STOP blowing my comments out of proportion.

And seeing as to how you keep doing that with just my comments to you I don't see the point in restating my question.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Exactly.
I would have tried AGAIN to explain it but seeing as to how my every comment seems to be an assault on him (blown to extreme proportions) I figured it pointless.

*added the response to redneck because we both posted at the same time methinks*

[edit on 14-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]