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The push towards materialism

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posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 10:36 PM
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Here is a little pet theory of mine I figured I'd toss out there and see what others think. I know I will most likely regret this thread. But, here goes.

I have noticed a large push towards materialism/atheism in what I see as an attempt to stamp out spiritualism.

Let me just say while I don't believe in a cohesive group seeking to control our lives I do believe there is at least something to the thought that leaders want more power over our lives. But I digress.

Wouldn't it be easy to control a population that did not believe in the concept of a soul? With the common belief being this life was all there is a threat of death takes on more weight.

But that is my question. Do you think that is a possible aim?

That is not to say I am calling all atheists evil btw. Or brainwashed sheeple. But this is a good question to ask. And I am NOT seeking to attack anyone or any belief.




posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 11:01 PM
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Yes, there certainly seems to be a push toward materialism these days. Whether or not it is intentional is somewhat debatable. In fact, I'm really not sure if those responsible for bringing it about are even aware of what they are doing. But it does seem to be happening at a rather alarming rate.

Maybe its just a symtom of the modern age. It seems like there are many who think that with all of our knowledge of science and technology, we have made ourselves God and have therefore outgrown our need for spirituality. That certainly is not a mindset that I would ever agree with but it does seem to be a growing trend these days. Quite disturbing if you ask me.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 11:13 PM
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I definitely see a more humanistic point of view being pushed out into the mainstream openly more and more. The government is pushing NWO which means, one money exchange system, probably one religion, and more humanistic/materialistic thinking and actions.

I can't say I blame atheism in totality because I think there's more behind it than that. It seems to be a more of a new age way of thinking, and with this, comes modification of all religion. None will be immune.

And I actually do see a cohesive group seeking to control our lives. I think government has succeeded greatly with this administration, and remember it was this president's father who coined the phrase "new world order".

And yes, it would be easier to control a population that had no concept of soul and as you said, that would make for further fear of death.

I, myself, don't fear death, but I used to. And when one fears death, they will do everything to save themselves from it, including bowing low to a despot or dictatorship-type government.

This NWO thing is actually my biggest fear for the future and our children. Take away the soul, take away your freedom to believe, think and speak as you wish, and we soon become slaves. History has proved this true.

So, yes, I pretty much agree with you.

I_R



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 11:19 PM
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Couple of thoughts. Not saying I believe them; just something to ruminate on.

First, Isn't there something in the Vedas about successive ages of decay? In other words, the first age of the universe was the "golden age," a period of perfection materially, with a pacific society and harmony in human relations? This was followed by the silver age, when people were not as harmonious, but still filled with great wisdom and compassion.

Then you get down to the copper, tin, iron ages, and we get successively more greedy and violent. Sort of a cyclical view of history instead of the linear western view.


Second, governments cannot stand people of faith (any faith). Materialists are fairly easy to control. Like training a lab rat--the subject always moves toward pleasure, moves away from pain.

But a believer isn't like that. A person who is other-directed will sometimes do painful things in the name of good, or forego pleasure in the name of what is right.

Lots of people will demonstrate in the streets, until you crack down on them. But for a leader like John Brown or Gandhi or MLK, that almost always takes some kind of moral/religious conviction.

I help out at a homeless shelter. Not many athiests volunteering at the shelter where I donate my time. They must all be at the next one down the street.

.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


It is a reaction to the vacuity of modern religions, is all. Here in America, our strong religion is Christianity... but what is American Christianity? You get to sit on your ass all day, do nothing to benefit anyone (and in fact have free pass to dump on anyone you see fit) because hey, you're guaranteed an etyernal reward just by benefit of calling yourself a Christian. Doubt me? Find an American Christian who doesn't believe they are going to heaven. Please. I wanna see some guy who goes "Nope, it's eternal torment for me!"

We see the same thing in the Middle East, where Jewish and Muslim "leaders" are nothing more than political reactionaries pushing an anti-peace agenda. In the Orient and India, "Religious" leaders are as big of materialistic sellouts as the megachurch evangelists here in America.

Given that religion in the modern world has little to no substance in it, it's understandable that people turn away from it - thus explaining the growth in both atheism and more fundamentalist branches of world religions.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 



It is a reaction to the vacuity of modern religions, is all. Here in America, our strong religion is Christianity... but what is American Christianity? You get to sit on your ass all day, do nothing to benefit anyone (and in fact have free pass to dump on anyone you see fit) because hey, you're guaranteed an etyernal reward just by benefit of calling yourself a Christian. Doubt me? Find an American Christian who doesn't believe they are going to heaven. Please. I wanna see some guy who goes "Nope, it's eternal torment for me!"


I'm sorry but it sounds like your pigeon holing a rather large group of people here, and quite unjustly on more than a few of their parts.



We see the same thing in the Middle East, where Jewish and Muslim "leaders" are nothing more than political reactionaries pushing an anti-peace agenda. In the Orient and India, "Religious" leaders are as big of materialistic sellouts as the megachurch evangelists here in America.


Been at all those other spots to make such statements?



Given that religion in the modern world has little to no substance in it, it's understandable that people turn away from it - thus explaining the growth in both atheism and more fundamentalist branches of world religions.


Seems to me your stating your own views as the views of everyone else here.
All that you have said is up to the big question. Interpretation.

And I can't help but wonder that if this push towards materialism isn't at least covertly aided by "the powers that be". As like I said and others have agreed.
A population that believes this is it is much easier to control.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Seems to me your stating your own views as the views of everyone else here.
All that you have said is up to the big question. Interpretation.


And yours isn't?


And I can't help but wonder that if this push towards materialism isn't at least covertly aided by "the powers that be". As like I said and others have agreed.
A population that believes this is it is much easier to control.


Well, religion is famed for free thinking, independence, and lack of control over the masses, true.

Oh. Wait.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


And this is the portion where I am supposed to get ticked off and rant at you right?

I am not saying everyone should convert to the known religions.
I am merely pointing out the fact that a population that thinks death is it is more supceptable to being controlled by those that use death as a threat.

For one that claims to be a spiritualist you sure have a dim view of other spiritualists.
Not to mention the warpath your on over this thread.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


I have no idea why you would. I am wondering though, why you feel the need to get all defensive at me for my take on why "materialism" as you term it, is spreading. It's my belief that it's a reaction to the failings of modern religious practice.

Is your theory the only one allowed on the thread?



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


And yours can't be discussed?
Sure I think what you said plays into it but, well as I said above.

But wait I am just trying to justify religion right?
Namely Christianity I am guessing since you seem to be one of those that want to lump me there regardless what I have said otherwise.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 12:13 AM
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BUT!
That brings another layer to my idea.
What if lets say the catholic church was in on the plans for a NWO and was seeking to widen the gulfs that fox talks about?
Throw in a dash of pushing for intolerance to make the people all the more sicker of that big bad thing "religion".

I mean places like the Vatican and mega church leaders are damn rich.

Not saying I believe all this again. But it fits kinda.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 05:06 AM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


and those who think that eternal punishment is real are more susceptible to that being used as a threat.

not only will they die, things will go downhill from there...forever.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 05:51 AM
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i see the materialism too, but i have a different opinion.

i live in spain which is a country that over the last 10 years or so has ¨boomed¨. when i was a child, there was no middle class. you either had money or you squeaked by.

now im not exactly sure how or why things ¨boomed¨ herebut in the last ten years, people have gotten more materialistic. i guess they are making more money and now they need to spend it.

im pretty sure there is a drive for materialism, but im not sure its related to religion. seems to me that the more money is being moved, the more companies and investors make money. so it might be a push for monetary reasons. a country that spends more is a country that has rich investors



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 06:18 AM
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For what little it's worth here's my take on things.

Sure we are moving towards a more materialistic world, have been for quite some time now
Probably a number of contributory factors.

As mankind has "progressed" we have seen an increase in "material" objects.
They are with us on every level of consciousness.
MSM ensures this.
This funds the current economic climate.

In the past people were satisfied with food, shelter and maybe a little grog to help them through the day.
Expectations have changed.

As a result the belief in the "your reward is after you die" myth has diminished.
People are more interested in the here and now.
They want their slice of the cake today, not in some mystical afterlife.

The increase in technology which has resulted in increased wealth, food and all the other "benefits" of modern society has resulted in a decrease in spirituality.

With the reduced influence of organised religion, the long standing controlling forces, (including the heads of most organised religious bodies), now need to seek other means to ensure our compliance with their will.

Economic decline, increased surveillance, global warfare are all part of the grander plan.

These people will not give up their control easily.
They beleive it is their inalienable right.


Some of this I believe with a passion, some of it is mere conjecture.
Don't know if it makes sense to anyone else, (it probably won't even make sense to me when I re-read it).
Sometimes I just struggle to express myself as well as I wish I could.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 07:45 AM
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Interesting thread with great points all around - thanks. I appreciate that everyone is being generally civil even though it is a rather personal and touchy subject.

My question is however, are people discussing two different things? Materialism as it applies to spiritualiity (or not) versus Consumerism.

I thought there was a philosophical view of Materialism that does not just mean buying things. Sorry if I am confusing anyone, I just thought it would be helpful to have the definitions clarified. Maybe I am altogether wrong and they are one in the same.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


And yours can't be discussed?


Sure, go for it. I'd love to see an actual response to my idea there.


But wait I am just trying to justify religion right?
Namely Christianity I am guessing since you seem to be one of those that want to lump me there regardless what I have said otherwise.


Curiously, I never said anything of the sort. So I think we're done here.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 



and those who think that eternal punishment is real are more susceptible to that being used as a threat.

not only will they die, things will go downhill from there...forever.


That doesn't really apply this day and age.
I can't think of anyone that really believes that they will be going to a hell like place. Sure such threats worked before. But there isn't a person alive satanists included that believes they are damned.
It's always someone else.


And my statement about a society that believes death is the end being more easily controlled stands.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by kosmicjack
 


Oh I meant materialism as it applies to the thought that this is all there is.

Line added to not get thumped.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


Another excellent thread, Wraith. Yes, there does seem to be a push towards materialism. With the increase of worldwide secularization, evolution becoming more widely taught and accepted, and the spark started during the Enlightenment, it certainly seems so.

One thing I wanted to point out is that people seem to be mentioning 'religion' in this thread while your original post talks about 'spiritualism.' Many people, including myself, have issues with organized religion but spirituality and a one-on-one relationship with our creator and a higher power seems to be getting stamped out in the process.

As to your question 'is it a possible aim.' It could be but this is pure speculation on my part concerning what I am about to say. Most religious/spiritual people are not as concerned with this life as, let's say, an atheist. Being that we believe life is only temporary and a 'sorting ground,' if you will, prior to the next life it could possibly be a NWO conspiracy for all we know. If people are being taught 'this is all there is' then we need to make 'this' as best as we possibly can. There would also be no real reason to oppose any new system in favor of one's belief system if materialism is correct. Some may think I'm way out there for saying such a thing but I thought I'd throw it in anyways.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:14 AM
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Ok case in point.
The Catholic's Churches power was never as complete as they would have liked.
After all you do have things like the various heresies and the rise of protestantism that kept arising to challenge their power.
The problem with garnering power in the physical world with the promise of eternal damnation if one doesn't comply is that another religious leader can come along and offer a deal a little bit easier on them. As history shows. Since the only people that truly know that answer isn't coming back to tell us.
I am sure others would have taken notice of that fact and have better ideas.
I also sure what you guys have said also play a part, just not as much as you think. Disagreement. Aint it grand?


But surely you must also agree that an ideal group of people to control are those that are kept at say the upper level of poor and have absolutely no belief in a afterlife of any sort.
Because like I said, a death threat becomes a far more an pressing threat when all you believe there is nothing but oblivion waiting for you.

I agree that organized religion was created for control. But you really got to admit it isn't a very good one. There is an allowance and space for someone to resist you and fall back on the "I'm pretty sure I am right. So I will happily die and go to my rewards because I am sure your promise of damnation is a lie."

reply to post by AshleyD
 


I think more than a few have a problem separating spiritualism from religion.

Which of course. I can.



[edit on 10-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]



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