Raelian Conspiracy to Overthrow Religion

reply to post by ThreeNF


Well problem is that they are matureing faster and faster these days, some children are starting to reach puberty at age 10. Sex is a resposibility, not just fun as we have shown that earlier. not only that, but it's not the best thing in the world, the more people have sex at an earlier age the worst there life becomes, I know this cause I have friends who have went through this. Sex is meant to be shared between two people who love each other and are married. Sex in it's self is a marrige, your body makes a chemical bond with a person that is truely never broken. No matter whether you love another person, you are still bonded to that person you had sex with. I'm still a virgin, I have'nt found the person I wanna be with for the rest of my life and trust me, I'd only wanna have sex with her only. A question though and you don't have to answer it if you don't want to I understand. Do you have sex with other people other than your wife? What does she think of this if you do?

reply to post by ThreeNF


Most humans don't go around having sex in groups and with all sorts of partners. Wild animals are indiscriminate and promiscuous. In that regard the analogy is a good one. Except that in regards to sex some wild animals, like the black vulture, behave more decent than raelians.

Originally posted by ThreeNF
Pedophilia is a different story altogether and quite sensitive. I do not condone anyone having sex with prepubescent children, because those children haven't developed sufficiently to understand what is going on.

Well your sex guru Rael's ex wife left him for exposing their young children to his sick sex orgies...

She says: 'The kids believed him . . . they'd had it drummed into them since before they could talk. What he did to them was hateful - he devastated their lives. No child should be expected to witness adult nudity and exist in an environment so close to people having orgies.'

www.rickross.com...



[edit on 4/13/2008 by Bigwhammy]

I suggest you guys looking into Alex Colliers work, he has a few videos on video.google.com

Hell shed lots of light on why we see the possibility of living with other ancient races in our universe.

For those of you that love cloning

www.independent.co.uk...

reply to post by ThreeNF

America Says No

A 1997-FEB CNN poll conducted among 1,005 American adults has a margin of error of 3%. They found:
bullet 93% felt that cloning humans is a bad idea
bullet 66% felt that cloning animals, such as sheep, is a bad idea
bullet 69% are scared of the possibility of cloning humans
bullet 74% believe that human cloning is against God's will; 19% say that it is not. 8

A subsequent Time/CNN poll, conducted on 2001-FEB found:
bullet 90% felt that cloning humans was a bad idea
bullet 67% felt that cloning animals, such as sheep, was a bad idea.
bullet 45% believe that it will be possible to clone a human within the next ten years.
bullet 69% believe that human cloning is against God's will; 23% say that it is not.

www.religioustolerance.org...

reply to post by Bigwhammy


ThreeNF says YES!!

I try not to listen to most Americans

reply to post by jimmyjackblack



" had a crazy thought, just a thought though.
What if Bigfoot was a Nyphelim? Silly sounding at first, but think of how it could play into all this. "

Possibly, since so much of what was known was deleted by agentur of satan.

Back in the 70's, my father said he read about an indian [ native american ] legend, and it goes like this.

That "little moons" would descend from the sky and let out the crazy bears [ I'm thinking bigfoot here ] And that's all I can tell you about that one. My father has passed on so I can't ask him where he read that at.

You are one of the few folks around here that seem to have a pretty good grasp of our enemy and the lies used to fool people. Actually set them up for the one world leader, which, as you know, is very very close.

If you haven't read it, I'm sure you'd love this book I read, called the curse of canaan. I got mine off amazon.

Ah, Chapter Three in the Bigwhammy Smear Campaign! Look out Bigwhammy! Somebody with beliefs contrary to your own! Must be a conspiracy!

I almost flagged this thread because I think the subject of the Raelians is quite interesting, but the whole "conspiracy" spin on it made me think twice. Aside from protesting against the Roman Catholic Church, (which I think even true Christians should actively be doing), the Raelians seem to have no desire to convert any large amount of people. I see a man who wants to put himself on the same level as Mohammed and Buddha, but is probably putting himself more on the level of Charles Manson. Not much of a conspiracy, though.

The Raelian agenda is no more conspiratorial than your local Red Cross Blood Drive looking for volunteers. One of the Raelians posting in this thread even said their philosophy is to inform people but not convince them; that if you're happy with whatever your faith is you should stick with it. Any organization that says that and doesn't hurt people or animals or even plants unduly is okay in my book!

As for the sexual angle, I think that the repression of sexual urges is damaging to the human psyche, so I agree with the Raelians on that. Look at an extreme example: Ed Gein, whose mother forced him to repress his sexual urges to the extreme and he ended up acting out on them in some of the most disgusting ways you could possibly imagine. Repress natural instincts and they don't go away, they end up manifesting themselves in "unnatural" ways. (I'll refrain from linking to a website about Ed Gein, if you don't know who the American Psycho is you can find his disgusting information for yourself.) But many of the most infamous serial killers are supposedly victims of sexual repression. I'm no psychologist, so I can't explain it perfectly, but basically they were forced to repress certain natural instincts, and later in life they came to the surface mixed with other emotions, such as rage. I think it is dangerous to repress sexual urges, and it inevitably leads to rape, molestation, murder, cannibalism, and any number of atrocities.

However, sex is also a dangerous thing and cannot be abused. If Rael's wife is telling the truth, then I would agree that he abused his children and his wife. I don't believe in marriage, (like the Raelians, I guess), but I also don't believe that you should subject someone you love to an onslaught of other sexual partners. I don't necessarily believe monogamy is necessary for a relationship, but I do believe that if the one you love is not okay with you having some fun on the side, you need to end the relationship or stop the promiscuity. (And I'd like to add that STDs and unwanted pregnancies would still exist if everyone waited until they got married to have sex. I really despise it when people think all problems in the world would just magically disappear if we just started obeying the Ten Commandments to a "t".)

As for extra-terrestrial intervention? It seems to me that the evidence suggests this is true. Evolutionists and Intelligent Designers should both be embracing this theory. It seems logical to me, though I doubt that Rael has the answer on it completely. Maybe aliens are the "missing link" evolution-deniers have been begging the evolutionists for for so long. And as has been mentioned, maybe these extra-terrestrials are the Nephilim or fallen angels from the Bible. (Personally I think it's probably both, but that the Raelians are correct in the fact that the world's religions have spawned from our ancestors thinking these ETs were "gods".

All in all, I think the Raelians have quite a few things right, though the whole cloning thing seems strange to me. Even if you could upload your memory to your clone's mind I don't see how your consciousness would go with it, or how you would "be" your clone. I don't completely understand consciousness, though, so I dunno. I also don't see the point in prolonging life. I for one think death will be the answer to all questions. I look forward to it! (To some degree, anyway.)

But it's a cult. I wouldn't join, but I'll take some of the things they have to say with a grain of salt but an open mind. Nothing wrong with trying to learn as much as you can about life! Perhaps the Raelians have some single iota of truth about something!

[edit on 16/4/08 by an3rkist]

oh i dunno, an3rkist, but if you look around most of the complaints on these forums, whether from a christian or non-christian perspective, all seem to focus on the same root causes: lying, stealing, cheating, etc. most people don't even stop to think that the various civilizations of ancient history are the ones that laid down these systems of moral code for the purpose of functioning with each other peacefully. these moral codes and concepts were said to be imparted to humans from the various "gods" or simply "God." we ignore them to our peril, and call them fictions so that we may go on doing whatever it is we feel compelled to do. but our nature is a fallen one, meaning that we are inherently conditioned, genetically, to do the opposite, don't you think? it's a struggle against the spirit and the flesh.

reply to post by undo


I think you're right that there is a "struggle between the spirit and the flesh", but I would define "spirit" and "flesh" differently than I think you do. "Flesh" I would define as the product of the materialistic society we live in, and "spirit" I would define as the reality of our own true selves. Actually, those definitions might be yours also, except that you probably believe that our own true selves are the manifestation of "God". I do too, but your definition of "God" is far different from mine. Mine is an atheist/pantheist definition of God, and I only use that word because there is none that works better.

I don't think that we're genetically conditioned to do the opposite of what is considered morally correct, even from a fundamentalist Christian's point of view. I think most aspects of religious morals are ingrained in our minds based on self-sustainability, (for the most part). It is better for my survival if I help other people survive, and if I treat other people respectfully, etc. I don't mean to degrade the importance of morals, however.

I think the Raelians have a lot of things spot on, including the un-tabooing of sexuality. I think Rael is probably some power-hungry, egocentric maniac, but I could be wrong. I do think they're right about many things, though. I think sexuality is healthy, and the repression of it is not. I also think that marriage is an unnatural institution, and ruins relationships and love in most cases. I think that man has taken natural morals and corrupted them through unnatural institutions such as Christianity, (the dogmatic versions of it anyway), and all other dogmatic organizations. And that doesn't stop with Christianity, the Raelians, too have taken some good ideas and institutionalized them. Bad news, in my opinion.

[edit on 16/4/08 by an3rkist]

reply to post by an3rkist


Great thoughts, an3rkist. I appreciate the candor, politeness, and being open minded, even if you don't agree with everything about the Raelian philosophy. Rael tells us to question everything, even what he says, but be polite about it.

I will point out however that I do not consider the Raelian movement a cult as others think of it. I can understand why you might think that, but if you like some of the ideas then you should read Intelligent Design if it interests you. I remember the first time I went to a Raelian gathering and the thoughts going through my head (OMG, what if these people are wacko?) It turns out that I met some very sincere, well educated, loving people. Great friends!! That feeling was reinforced even more when I attended the North American seminar in Las Vegas a couple of weeks ago. In short - Raelians are the coolest people on the planet, and incredible performers!.

reply to post by ThreeNF


Don't take the "cult" comment too personally. I think every religion is a cult, and most, (if not all), other institutions also could be called a cult to some extent. I do find it pretty disheartening that this Rael fella is basically calling himself a prophet. I go to the website and there's just a huge picture of him... Makes me think he's just another "messiah".

I find it interesting that Joseph Smith is considered a prophet by Raelians. I was raised Mormon so I know quite a bit about them, and I'm guessing that Rael got the word "Elohim" from them, considering they believe that's God's "real" name. The Mormons do believe that there are other planets with other life on them, but they also believe that there is a God and that Jesus was the son of God/Saviour, etc. They're dogma doesn't correlate too much with Raelians'. It appears to me as though Rael took aspects of many religions and philosophies, and science, and made a belief structure patchwork "quilt" sort of thing with all of it.

But I think he's got more of it right than most major religions. I just don't like the institution. The whole cloning thing bothers me, too. I'm not necessarily opposed to cloning, but how can you upload your "mind" into another brain and "become" that body? Are we nothing more than memories? What is consciousness? How can you transfer who we are into another body? If it can be done I'll be first in line! I just don't see how it could work... And if it can, doesn't that mean that I could "be" in two bodies at once?

reply to post by toasted


Yeah, the Bigfoot idea crossed my mind a while back in this thread.
I am the crazy bear!
Just kidding, so little moons eh? hmm... interesting.

reply to post by an3rkist


Are we nothing more than memories? Well, we aren't much more than dust From dust we came and return to dust we shall. The beauty of it is that our creators, the Elohim, gave this dust the capacity to be conscious. In time, we humans will learn how to do this and pass on the ability render dust conscious through creations of our own. Rael's message tells us that the Elohim were created this way, as well as their creators, and so on back forever in time. It will continue forever forward in time with what we create, and then what they create, etc.

You are you now. If you were to transfer your memory into 2 different bodies, then there would be identically two of you for a brief instant in time. However, as time and experiences change then two different people would emerge, but with the same memory of the past.

I think you're right in that the Raelian philosophy is a "patchwork" of various different beliefs, but I think there is some truth in all of the religions today. Rael brings it all together along with the teachings from his encounter to give to us a philosophy which has the power to change humanity forever - if only more people would listen I think in time more people will, when our science and understanding of life evolves. Dr. Craig Venter is creating life today - well, sort of . So in 50 years, will we be able to prove God experimentally? Will we be able to prove evolution experimentally (throw a single cell in a box and watch a human come out)? Probably not, but we will be able to create life experimentally and hopefully that will make people think - if we can create life, then perhaps we were created by something similar to us?

So whatever happened to these clones the raelians claimed to have produdced? Did they admit it was a big hoax or are we still supposed to believe they have living clones?

WILLIAMS: They call themselves the Raelians. A videotape is shown to recruit prospective members of the movement. Their core belief is that all life on earth comes from aliens from outer space. It was started in 1973 by a former French race car driver, turned spiritual leader, who is reported to have had a close encounter with an extraterrestrial. He is now called Raël, meaning, messenger.

FOLLOWER: Raël's wonderful. He's a great person and leader.

WILLIAMS: Two years ago, Raël and his followers made headlines, claiming to have successfully cloned the first human baby. The company was Clonaid, founded by Raël, and run by Dr. Brigitte Boisselier, a Bishop in the Raelian movement.

WILLIAMS: Has she told you there is a cloned baby?

RAËL: Not one, seven or eight.

WILLIAMS: In a rare interview, Raël agreed to talk to us about the so-called cloned baby.

WILLIAMS: If it is such a big deal, why not introduce these cloned babies to the world?

RAËL: According to what Dr. Boisselier is saying, it is by respect for the family and the babies.

WILLIAMS: Have you seen the cloned baby?

RAËL: I see nothing. I am like you. I am looking like you…

WILLIAMS: Anxious?

RAËL: Of course.

WILLIAMS: Because you know there are doubters. If you came up with the proof…

RAËL: I know, but, every spiritual leader in the history of humanity had more doubters than believers.

WILLIAMS: But critics like James Underdown say a movement that boasts of combining spirituality and science has to provide proof.

UNDERDOWN: They don't want to provide the evidence or have people who know what they are talking take a look at the evidence. Until they do that, they should not be taken seriously.

WILLIAMS: Despite the skepticism, the movement is growing. 65,000 followers worldwide in more than 85 countries and there is a push to recruit in the U.S.

RAËL: Right now, the extreme conservatives, people in America, are becoming more and more, you know, fanatic, traditionalists. I think my field of loving the differences, of trying not to judge other religions, but to find what is similar, what we have in common and to love everything and to mix everything together. The best way to have a peaceful future.

WILLIAMS: Right now, they number over 100 in Southern California. But Raël insists those numbers will grow, with the first awakening seminar ever held in the U.S. Some describe this annual seminar as a cross between a nudist camp and new-age retreat.

RAËL: Seminar is about sensual meditation and also to find happiness within yourself.

WILLIAMS: Raël says they are not a cult. He says cloning already is antiquated, and the next step is an artificial womb from which babies would emerge in just a matter of hours.

www.wwrn.org...

reply to post by Bigwhammy


The last I heard was that there were 13 clones, but I really can't say for sure. Clonaid is a separate entity from the Raelian Movement. From what I understand it has been the parent's decision to not reveal the identity of the cloned children they are raising, out of fear that it would destroy the child's upbringing.

reply to post by ThreeNF


So in this case you do give clones the rights of regular human beings then?

But for your own immortality you are willing to treat them like meat.

How is it that you can justify creating a clone (your twin) and then imposing your own brain on it then?

reply to post by Bigwhammy


I think I've already answered this before. These "clones" were born like any other child today and will grow up the same way. So to impose one's memory on these clones would obviously be wrong.

Clones for the purpose of immortality will be "built" differently. Their bodies will be grown outside of any womb and will develop into a body of say 18 year old in a matter of seconds. At this point, this mind knows nothing of anything. The mind is not "switched" on. After the memory from the old body is transfered to the new one, then the mind is "switched" on, and the new body awakes with the same memory as that of the old body. The obvious advantage now is that the new body doesn't need to take Viagra

Clones for the purpose of immortality will be "built" differently. Their bodies will be grown outside of any womb and will develop into a body of say 18 year old in a matter of seconds.

That is impossible. We cant even grow an ear of corn in seconds much less a human being. It will take years even with growth hormones and steroids.

So why are you cloning humans at all right now if it is so unrelated to your immortality plans? Rael would destroy innocents for his "immortality". It will never work anyway. Because you can't transfer your memories.

There are so many ethical problems in this bid for immortality through cloning, the true character of Rael shows through. Pure selfishness.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

Clones for the purpose of immortality will be "built" differently. Their bodies will be grown outside of any womb and will develop into a body of say 18 year old in a matter of seconds.

That is impossible. We cant even grow an ear of corn in seconds much less a human being. It will take years even with growth hormones and steroids.

So why are you cloning humans at all right now if it is so unrelated to your immortality plans? Rael would destroy innocents for his "immortality". It will never work anyway. Because you can't transfer your memories.

There are so many ethical problems in this bid for immortality through cloning, the true character of Rael shows through. Pure selfishness.

It would be impossible for you to develop, but not others. Keep in mind that when you say something is impossible that it fuels the fire in other people to make it happen. Is it possible today, no. Is it that far-fetched to think it can't happen in the future? Absolutely not! Again, it depends on the right people to work on it (geniuses), and not the "normal sheepish" people in today's society.

Lastly, your view on ethics is not society's view as a whole and in the end I think you will lose in the argument. I'm going to venture and say that you aren't educated in science nor work in the field, so your opinion is worthless as it is irrationally founded. It is even more important today that society implements Rael's view on geniocracy, so that we actually have intelligent people making decisions on this planet.

Geniocracy