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posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by Straighten Arrow
 


If you could provide a verse that would be great. I just skimmed through it again and see nothing stating they are the same.

I also switched over to the King James Version and still nothing.

I am certainly not here to question anyone's faith, and I have to ask is it possible that you could be mistaken? Notice I didn't say are you mistaken. I am asking is it possible that you could be?

See, because I know for a fact that it is possible I am mistaken which leaves my mind open. So I am curious if your mind is also open?




posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by Straighten Arrow
 


He probably left in a huff. He sounds angry but I don't have anything against him personally. I hope he's more level-headed if he gets back on at another time.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by whitecastle
reply to post by Straighten Arrow
 


He probably left in a huff. He sounds angry but I don't have anything against him personally. I hope he's more level-headed if he gets back on at another time.


Who are you two referring to?



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by whitecastle
 



Yep, I don't have anything against him either. Sometimes I talk to much and stick a foot in my mouth but I'm tryin'. I hope he comes back more level headed too. Heck, all my life I've been picked on and taken lightly so umm yeah like I said it ain't easy being cheesy.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 12:14 AM
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reply to post by tlshark
 


The guy who basically blamed God for some of the abuses that have been going on in the Catholic Church.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by tlshark
reply to post by Straighten Arrow
 


If you could provide a verse that would be great. I just skimmed through it again and see nothing stating they are the same.

I also switched over to the King James Version and still nothing.

I am certainly not here to question anyone's faith, and I have to ask is it possible that you could be mistaken? Notice I didn't say are you mistaken. I am asking is it possible that you could be?

See, because I know for a fact that it is possible I am mistaken which leaves my mind open. So I am curious if your mind is also open?



You're leaving your mind open to the path that's broad and wide and has too much question. That's another problem that I have noticed with...Well um, forget it.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by Straighten Arrow
See, theories are just theories that only lead into another path that is far and away from the truth.
The same could be said of faith.


So now he married one of his children? Where is your evidence that they were married?
There is no concrete proof, and it likely could never be proven to the satisfaction of everybody. (Heck, there are still geocentrists and flat-earthers in the 21st century, so it seems like NOTHING can be proven to the satisfaction of EVERYBODY.) Your position seemed to be based on "Jesus would not sin, and having sex with the Magdalene would be a sin". But nobody's accusing Jesus of being a sinner. Most of the people who support the bloodline theory include the idea that Jesus & the Magdalene were husband and wife. (An unmarried Jewish male of his age at that time would have been pretty unusual, from what I've read.) I think you'd agree that no mortal can know or comprehend the full will of God. So if He wanted a bloodline, emissaries of God in the flesh, performing their duties on Earth until the rapture, why would we as mere men be told? Can you maybe see my point? You can see my point without having to agree.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by tlshark
 


Your not alone mate.. imo, Christians have a bit of a personality disorder, borderline schizophrenia.

God is God, like in all the other books
Jesus is God, but not in the other 2 religions, which he is a prophet, yet even in the Bible Jesus refers to God as his Father, and not himself, for instance, Jesus oftens prays to God. Why? Hes praying to himself? Hes talking to himself? It makes no sense to someone like me.. Then there is the ever vague Holy Ghost.. never a clear definition of what or who it is, its just God. Give you courage.

So .. imo, based on Judaism which has one God and several Prophets.. and Islam, which has one God and several Prophets, and Christianity which has 3 forms of God and several prophets.

Its my opinion that Christianity is a Polytheistic religion. And that people Worship Jesus over God. And that when they say "Jesus IS God" they may really mean "Jesus is A God"


[edit on 4/6/2008 by Rockpuck]



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Straighten Arrow
See, theories are just theories that only lead into another path that is far and away from the truth.
The same could be said of faith.


So now he married one of his children? Where is your evidence that they were married?
There is no concrete proof, and it likely could never be proven to the satisfaction of everybody. (Heck, there are still geocentrists and flat-earthers in the 21st century, so it seems like NOTHING can be proven to the satisfaction of EVERYBODY.) Your position seemed to be based on "Jesus would not sin, and having sex with the Magdalene would be a sin". But nobody's accusing Jesus of being a sinner. Most of the people who support the bloodline theory include the idea that Jesus & the Magdalene were husband and wife. (An unmarried Jewish male of his age at that time would have been pretty unusual, from what I've read.) I think you'd agree that no mortal can know or comprehend the full will of God. So if He wanted a bloodline, emissaries of God in the flesh, performing their duties on Earth until the rapture, why would we as mere men be told? Can you maybe see my point? You can see my point without having to agree.


I can see your point Josh and I don't agree but I can see your point. I base my faith from the good book and that's why I choose not to even question that it would ever be a possibility. We all have to make choices and for me it's my faith and I won't ever stray from it.

That was a nice discussion Josh. Would you consider walking the extra mile and removing me as a respected foe? I respect your view points but I don't like the idea of having foes.


Edited to add that my belief is that God spilled his blood for all of us on the cross and that is the only blood line that he's left behind. He works through ALL of us through belief and prayer, he gives ALL of us the power to devour the devil. Think of this life as a stepping stone to a much stronger you with a heightened awarness up in heaven.


[edit on 6-4-2008 by Straighten Arrow]



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 



We all have opinions Rockpuck but trust me, I am not a schizopranic, lol. I just strongly believe in my faith.


Edited to add: And the idea of a one world religion in correlation to freemasonry is very compelling but it is nothing to fear or to worry about. I'm not saying go ahead and do it, I'm just saying for those who follow Christ in his purest form it is nothing.


[edit on 6-4-2008 by Straighten Arrow]

[edit on 6-4-2008 by Straighten Arrow]



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Your not alone mate.. imo, Christians have a bit of a personality disorder, borderline schizophrenia.

Do you mean all Christians or just some of them?


[edit on 4/6/08 by Trinityman]



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by Straighten Arrow
 


That's part of the problem. The Good Book.

Which one? Which version? Are you including all the books within the book? Which translation means the most to you? What happens when there is a word that doesn't have an english equivilant?

Oh and also, thanks for answering my previous question, about having an open mind. It is nice to see that there is no possibility that you could be wrong.

As I tell my students when they say "I know"...the moment you say that you close off your mind to anything else. You achieve pre-mature closure. And I hope you would agree pre-mature anything...nevermind.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by tlshark
reply to post by Straighten Arrow
 


That's part of the problem. The Good Book.

Which one? Which version? Are you including all the books within the book? Which translation means the most to you? What happens when there is a word that doesn't have an english equivilant?

Oh and also, thanks for answering my previous question, about having an open mind. It is nice to see that there is no possibility that you could be wrong.

As I tell my students when they say "I know"...the moment you say that you close off your mind to anything else. You achieve pre-mature closure. And I hope you would agree pre-mature anything...nevermind.


I'm actually disappointed brother. Why do you want to fight?

The version that I read is the NIV but it doesn't matter because it's no different then the King James version because it speaks the truth. I am a Christian. That means that I choose to follow Jesus Christ (I don't flash a masonic ring around). I am not going to question my Lord's authority and I am not going to question the good book, it's the last living diciple. I know that you claim to be a Christian and that's cool but let go of your aggression and the deception. How about this, "And if someone wants to sue you for your lunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, Go with him two miles."




posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by tlshark
 


I also want to add that I can see why you don't understand that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, or refuse to. I can see why after reading that letter by McCurdy. Freemasonry does not want you to see that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh. Why? Because it doesn't want you to acknowlege that Jesus Christ is the authoritative figure.

I'm prayin' for you brother!



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by Straighten Arrow
 


Well, first off, I am not attempting to fight. I asked if you had an open mind. It is clear that you don't. So that pretty much limits the discussion. As you are unwilling to even consider you may be mistaken.

Second, I have been a Mason for all of 3 weeks. So I am pretty sure that is not where I got my beliefs from.

Third, it absolutely matters which version of the Bible you get your "truth" from as different versions have different translations, and some exclude whole books altogether.

So, as someone previously mentioned when Jesus says he is praying to God, who is he praying to? Himself?

Interesting. I feel like a quote from the Matrix would be good here...

"You think that's air you are breathing? Hmm."

All I wanted to know was if it was possible you could be mistaken.

I wonder if there was a new discovery over there in Iraq where they found 2000 year old scrolls saying Jesus was married what would you do then? Because you would have a dilemma. You would have to denounce all new information because you already know it all.

Anyway, that was purely hypothetical. Just interesting the box you have put yourself in.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by tlshark
reply to post by Straighten Arrow
 


Well, first off, I am not attempting to fight. I asked if you had an open mind. It is clear that you don't. So that pretty much limits the discussion. As you are unwilling to even consider you may be mistaken.

Second, I have been a Mason for all of 3 weeks. So I am pretty sure that is not where I got my beliefs from.

Third, it absolutely matters which version of the Bible you get your "truth" from as different versions have different translations, and some exclude whole books altogether.

So, as someone previously mentioned when Jesus says he is praying to God, who is he praying to? Himself?

Interesting. I feel like a quote from the Matrix would be good here...

"You think that's air you are breathing? Hmm."

All I wanted to know was if it was possible you could be mistaken.

I wonder if there was a new discovery over there in Iraq where they found 2000 year old scrolls saying Jesus was married what would you do then? Because you would have a dilemma. You would have to denounce all new information because you already know it all.

Anyway, that was purely hypothetical. Just interesting the box you have put yourself in.


I am not mistaken about my faith and nor should I have to submit to the thought.

I know that Masons are big on the King James version and that's fine but the NIV speaks the truth, I can assure you. Regardless of what you are taught to believe.


In a way yes, he was in heaven and on earth at the same time. As I mentioned before he can be in more then one place at any "time".

Funny you should mention a quote from the Matrix which in general is masonic in its nature. I found the series entertaining and fun to watch though nothing to take seriously!

Futhermore, I know that you are being taught to question everything, including your faith and the good book but when it comes to the good book and my faith I choose not to question it. So yes, I do have an open mind.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by Trinityman
 


actually I meant the religion its self, not the actual people themselves who follow the religion. As in the ideologies them selves are schizophrenic



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by Straighten Arrow
Futhermore, I know that you are being taught to question everything, including your faith and the good book...


You know? Sadly you do not know, for if you did you would not be making statements with such a broad and general tone, which are in fact, completely and utterly false.

Your self-assuredness regarding what you think you know pertaining to Masonry only demonstrates your ability to apply one of the Seven Deadly Sins; Pride.

What would Jesus think?



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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Good thread...Firstly Jesus was an Master Essene, not a Rabbi. Jesus was too young and unskilled for the Jews to have let him claim rabbinical stature. Jesus was also in a part of Galilee that was named after an influx of settlers from the north.

Whether Jesus was Jewish is irrelevant, what is relevant is his message=god is everywhere. Jesus was a healer (Essene is derived from the Hebrew equivalent; to lay hands/to heal) and dissident of the Pharisees and the Herodian kingdom.

*Note Essenes were highly educated in their own schools and there was no reference to lineage in their beliefs, but rather to live spiritually for the benefit of god and mankind. One of the first truly spiritual messianic movements in recorded history.

There is evidence to elude John was a militant and the main antagonist of Herod's army. There is also evidence Peter may have been employed as a Roman agent to infiltrate the inner core of Jesus’ disciples. The kingdom of Herod was a client kingdom to the Romans and Herodians were true Jews.

"Galilee ha-gohim" or "Galilee of the gentiles" was the land of which Jesus came, Jews were far and few between and would have unlikely lived alongside gentiles in this frontier. Jews call gentiles ha-gohim, which is another way of saying lesser being/slave. Luke was a Roman Tribune and actually sent on a mission to investigate the death of a Roman commander, Jesus was the intended perpetrator (not likely). Luke hunted him before his spiritual conversion and later disavowed his ties to the Rome and the Legions.

The Pharisees were a messianic order which worshiped silver, (hence paying Judas in silver) the translation from Hebrew actually means hypocrite. This is because they were not actually Jewish, but rather a controlling body within the Herodian government. The Herodians didn't want dissidents in their lands, because they didn't want Romans in their lands, Jesus and his ilk were outspoken about the tyranny of Rome and this provoked rebellious overtones.

Back to the thread, Mary Magdalene may have been Jesus’ closest disciple. Jesus being an Essene and around Jewish tradition, this would have been acceptable; for Jesus to be married (Jewish custom) and for Jesus to confide in his partner (Essene custom). Most of the accusations of Mary being a whore of Babylon were from Peter, who may have been a Roman agent. So the possibility of a bloodline of Jesus is not impossible, but there is no way to substantiate the claim. Much like the bible itself, there are no ways to substantiate many of the claims or stories in the bible, faith is required.

What must be considered is the presence of Stigmatic’s and whose blood streams from their body, true Stigmatic’s bleed a specific blood type to be designated with Stigmata by the Vatican. Stigmatic’s are encouraged by the Catholic Church to live in a rectory and study under the Jesuits in Rome. There is also an investigative body which actually such instances. This could be Psychosomatics or relation through blood.

Some may read what I have written and assume I am against Christianity or do not think Jesus to be god in the flesh/the son of god. What is evident of his message is we are all creatures of god and I will not pretend to understand this complex relationship. I take it on faith that Jesus was a supernatural being and died for us as a martyr.

What I do not accept is the fact that there is much of Jesus’ message which has been suppressed, like the continuation of the gospel after the book of revelations. Only 2/3rds of the bible is published, the rest being in a vault underneath the Vatican.

Jesus’ true followers were agnostic Christians and were wiped hunted down and eradicated between early 2nd and third century A.D... These might very well have been the remainder of the Essenes and Jesus’ true followers and if their records were available we might better understand if there is a bloodline or not.



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


I think some people just can't wrap thier head around Jesus having even marital relations with a woman. It is modern society that imposes the weight of "sin" to the sex act. I cant see the logic that it is an act of "molestation" for two grown married people to have intercourse and produce offspring either. I dont see the correlation of the father having sex with his child. It doesnt follow logic. Im not saying that I believe Jesus and Mary Magdelene were married or that this is anything more than a theory. Just for the sake of argument, I agree that it would not be "sin" for him to marry and have kids and if he is the Messiah it would not make Him any less a Messiah.
edited for spelling

[edit on 12-4-2008 by raven bombshell]



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