ATS: Atheist Thrashing Service

Originally posted by nerbot
I am an Atheist from birth and it's not a question of "Do I Believe?"....... because Yes, I do!

I have an amazingly strong belief... just not in something that isn't real.

I am my own God, and THIS is MY Universe.

Maybe our universes will cross one day my friends, if not, don't worry...I'll see you in the *** STARS ***

Well, at least I can say this for you. You admit atheism is a belief system, which most of you try to say it is not. But as I have said elsewhere, non-belief in a supreme being is a belief system in and of itself, so thanks for admitting that. But question, how can you be an atheist from birth? Are you saying you follow the belief system of your parents?

reply to post by idle_rocker


Hoping to clear things up here:

An atheist is a person who believes there are no gods. This has to be a belief, because ultimately, there is no absolute way of knowing for sure.

An agnost is a person who stays away from the icky issue of believing, and instead turns to thoughts about the subject; indefinitive, inconclusive thoughts.

It might be useful to use these words adequately - as we all know, confusion just adds to the aggression and despare we see here every now and then. If I had a suggestion to make, it would be to cool our senses and try to get a long as persons first, and as people of different belief systems second. That way, we can calmly talk about whatever might be the case, without trying to crusade our way through..


P.S. a bit more on topic: i think not believing in any specific God at birth is what he meant as being born an atheist. Now here's the catch.. does a baby have enough power of consciousness to discern between being an agnost or an atheist? Is there a third word we should be creating - something to do with being unaware of the possibility of existence of dieties ;p?

[edit on 14-4-2008 by scraze]

[edit on 14-4-2008 by scraze]

Originally posted by idle_rocker

Well, at least I can say this for you. You admit atheism is a belief system, which most of you try to say it is not.

Errr, I never said it was a system of any sort! I have never thought of my beliefs as anything like a system. A system sounds far too implemented and organized for me and life if full of far too many individuals and diverse situations and places to have the "rules" needed for a system....so not my "atheism" then!

Originally posted by idle_rocker But as I have said elsewhere, non-belief in a supreme being is a belief system in and of itself, so thanks for admitting that.

Admitting WHAT? Atheism Is A REACTION and is only relevant when a non-religious person has to deny the existance of a god or creator, usually to a religious follower.

Originally posted by idle_rocker But question, how can you be an atheist from birth? Are you saying you follow the belief system of your parents?

I am glad neither of my parents were religious and I was FREE to draw my own, logical conclusions about my world.

I could go one step further and tell you I remember before I was born (yes, memories of the womb, sounds, shapes etc) and there was nothing of a religious nature there either!

Maybe some non-atheists should realise that atheists don't worship any kind of beliefs at meeting places or use rulebooks and instructions to guide us or spread the word of atheism in an attempt to cleanse the world of evil and be known to be good.
We just mind our business and probably ONLY have to be Atheist when defending our points of view against a religious follower.

We are the by-product of a grand plan that is old and worn, "you can't win 'em all"

So please, remember that I respect your right to believe in your god as the answer to everything, and it is only fair and polite to respect my beliefs in everything and anything else for those same answers, and that's what this thread is all about.

I have never in my life met a full time atheist....and I don't know anybody who has!.....

I do not think it is taught to follow a system of non-belief, only belief!

[edit on 14/4/2008 by nerbot]

reply to post by nerbot


Yes, thank you for these words of wisdom. I do know these things...

My question was more of a correction than a question. As in, how can you follow a belief since you were born, since of course, you cannot. But I agree it could have been worded more wisely.

And I will still argue that atheism is a belief, albeit an unbelief. But there must be a belief that a belief exists before you can un-believe. It IS an ism.

But I won't argue that point any longer. I actually thought from your post that you were admitting it is an ISM, which is more than most atheists will admit. So, I'll just leave it here for you to ponder as I have already pondered it my entire life, and I am old now and have grown quite tired of it.

reply to post by idle_rocker

And I will still argue that atheism is a belief, albeit an unbelief. But there must be a belief that a belief exists before you can un-believe. It IS an ism.

Ummm how can one have a unbelief??????????
Isn't that rather like having a unthought????

Or how about eating unfood?
Or how about unspeaking?


You can have things you honestly haven't thought about, but this is obviously not the case. See as to how we are talking about it now.

A belief that something does not exist is STILL a belief.



I am now untyping! heheheheh

[edit on 15-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by idle_rocker

 

And I will still argue that atheism is a belief, albeit an unbelief. But there must be a belief that a belief exists before you can un-believe. It IS an ism.

Ummm how can one have a unbelief??????????
Isn't that rather like having a unthought????

Or how about eating unfood?
Or how about unspeaking?

You can have things you honestly haven't thought about, but this is obviously not the case. See as to how we are talking about it now.

A belief that something does not exist is STILL a belief.

Well of course that's what I mean, I just said it differently. You said it properly.

Originally posted by nerbot

Admitting WHAT? Atheism Is A REACTION and is only relevant when a non-religious person has to deny the existance of a god or creator, usually to a religious follower.

Reaction to what? Nobody cares whether you believe or not and as far as Most Christians I talk to, they don't care if you ever did or ever do.

Your reaction?? It's an afront to all Christians when we see them moving in the same direction they always have through history and every single time they have got control of a state, millions die, NOT in the name of atheism but in the name of those Christian martyrs, killed at the hands of Atheist's

I am glad neither of my parents were religious and I was FREE to draw my own, logical conclusions about my world.

Compared to the Christian upbringing you had in a past life?

Maybe some non-atheists should realise that atheists don't worship any kind of beliefs at meeting places or use rulebooks and instructions to guide us or spread the word of atheism in an attempt to cleanse the world of evil and be known to be good.
We just mind our business and probably ONLY have to be Atheist when defending our points of view against a religious follower.

Thats a crock, Atheists invade our church to disrupt the offering the last 3 out of 5 sundays. They get in the faces of ASU students coming out of Biology spewing vitriolic anger and they aren't even students there.

They organise and they don't mind there own business because they are too busy minding ours.

We are the by-product of a grand plan that is old and worn, "you can't win 'em all"

I don't here the fat lady singing yet

So please, remember that I respect your right to believe in your god as the answer to everything, and it is only fair and polite to respect my beliefs in everything and anything else for those same answers, and that's what this thread is all about.

I thought Atheists didn't have any beliefs for us to respect and probably why they get none

I have never in my life met a full time atheist....and I don't know anybody who has!.....

seems to me they are actively disbelieving in god 24/7

I do not think it is taught to follow a system of non-belief, only belief!

It is more like a systematic methodical process to dismantle everyone elses system of belief


- Con

reply to post by Conspiriology


Once again.
There is no such thing has a non-belief.
Just like again non-eating.
You can't have a non-thought.
The subject of the existence of a prime mover or whatever is obviously something you have applied a belief to.
Even if that belief is in the negative as to the answer to said question it is STILL an answer and a belief.

reply to post by WraothAscendant


I would hate to see your thoughts be derailed because of certain biases. And yet, in the same light (depending on which way one wants to play with the subject) derailed on the fact, that people don't want to open their minds to the many possibilities that surround us.

I've seen your question from the get go, and watched others respond and 'let go'.

Shame.

~Ducky~


[edit on 15-4-2008 by TheDuckster]

Originally posted by Conspiriology
Compared to the Christian upbringing you had in a past life?

ha, ha, ha....I was actually the mineral remains from a healing fungus blasted off the planet "Scruthnog" some 8.2 million years ago that arrived in this solar system in a meteor. Nice place, shame it blew up!

Originally posted by Conspiriology
I don't here the fat lady singing yet

Well you wouldn't unless you could "HEAR" her.
Aaaah, ..........you thought this post needed winning did you...sorry, no fat ladies here, just truth and sensibility and people saying.....

"thrash unto others as you would be thrashed yourself!

Originally posted by Conspiriology
I thought Atheists didn't have any beliefs for us to respect and probably why they get none

Your condescendance is truly biblical in proportion.

Originally posted by Conspiriology
seems to me they are actively disbelieving in god 24/7

Why would anyone bother wasting their time and life doing that, ha, ha, ha, What an utterly rediculous statement! or maybe you meant to say:"seems to me they are actively believing in the real world".

You constantly defend your faith, it's your duty as a follower I suppose, I only defend my disbelief in your god at times like this and then carry on my merry way with the concept of "god" up there with "santa and the easter bunny" not to be taken seriously but good for a holiday.

And as for the students interrupting your services, I'm sure there's something in your bible about forgiveness and loving your enemy. Have you tried listening for a change or do you just ignore what they say and confront them?

quote]Originally posted by Conspiriology
It is more like a systematic methodical process to dismantle everyone elses system of belief

Exactly which Religion are you talking about?

All I can really say is......I'm off to a drug-crazed-champagne-sex-orgy with the local choir and THEY invited ME!

[edit on 15/4/2008 by nerbot]

Originally posted by nerbot
ha, ha, ha....I was actually the mineral remains from a healing fungus blasted off the planet "Scruthnog" some 8.2 million years ago that arrived in this solar system in a meteor. Nice place, shame it blew up!

Originally posted by Conspiriology
I don't here the fat lady singing yet

Well you wouldn't unless you could "HEAR" her.
Aaaah, ..........

Touche'

Originally posted by Conspiriology
seems to me they are actively disbelieving in god 24/7

Why would anyone bother wasting their time and life doing that, ha, ha, ha, What an utterly rediculous statement!

No,, you would be wrong there unless it was utterly "Ridiculous"

And as for the students interrupting your services, I'm sure there's something in your bible about forgiveness and loving your enemy.

Well,, I was going in that direction, when the Atheist told me the Bible was full of contradiction,, then I was like,, what the hell,,,

Suplex!

exactly which Religion are you talking about?

All of them.

All I can really say is......I'm off to a drug-crazed-champagne-sex-orgy with the local choir and THEY invited ME!

Have Fun,, oh and uh,, you might want to pass,,

on the Koolaid


- Con


[edit on 16-4-2008 by Conspiriology]

One of the most prolific and most prominent atheist groups today is none other than Scientology. Here is what an insider who rose to OT level 5 had to say. Btw, it is actor Jason Beghe:

MIMS, I have been hesitant to bring any of this up but will now take the opportunity to do so. I'm sorry you see ATS as being an 'Atheist Thrashing Service' because very few actually see it that way. You seem to feel attacked so let's explore some of the reasons you may feel you come under scrutiny from religious [mainly Christian] members here.

Let's review your threads: MIMS' THREADS.

Let's review some of your post comments: MIMS' POST COMMENTS.

Let's take a quick peek at your friends and foes lists: MIMS PROFILE.

Are we seeing a pattern here, MIMS? I do. Although it is true everyone has a right to control their own foes list, it sure is odd that you only have one Christian person on your friends list of 137 people (that I can see) and your foes list consists of 99.9% Christian members- the vast majority of them never having anything against you.

And it is also true everyone here has the right to start threads and reply to threads that interest them. But can you not see how it looks like you have an unhealthy obsession with something you don't even believe in? And how many keep accusing you of 'atheism evangelism?' Can you not see how such behavior rubs people the wrong way and why they 'take you on?'

Now, I know you will retreat back into the 'I'm just an interested observer' defense but that simply doesn't cut it anymore. I have seen you repeatedly bait other members only to fall back as the victim all the while never owning up to what you did to contribute to the drama. You also seem to be awfully fond of the alert feature once those hapless individuals take your bait.

Please, MIMS. Quit dishing it out but then playing the victim or acting like you don't know what the problem is when someone decides to dish it out back to you.

[edit on 4/20/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


christian friends?

ducky
dbates
jj
saint

those are the very openly christian people on my friends list.

and the majority of other people i have on there are people whose posts i enjoy but i don't know a damn thing about their religious preference

the atheists that i find stupid don't deserve the time of being set as a "foe" there was one recently. something about poo in his name, can't remember exactly. i just thought "oh, not this poo again" and just hoped he got banned and things could get back to business. i only take the time to "foe" someone when they deserve my attention...it's a shame you don't have a spectrum, because some are respected (like you) others, not so much (not naming names there)

a lot of them weren't foed because they were christians, it's because of their blatant ignorance or other outrageous behavior
example: swansword. according to him/her i was supposed to be in the hospital at some point drinking out of a straw and calling for a catholic priest

you see, i don't just say "oh, they believe in jesus, they're my friend"
people like jj have been on here since i first started posting, and there has been a mutual respect.
same for saint
ducky is just awesome

but as for the majority of people, i think it's just the demographics of the site that they mostly turn out to be christians...

as for my threads...well, someone has to talk about that stuff, don't they?

but some of it like..

"Why no more books in the Bible?" (pure theology there, not even asking it as a challenge to the religion, just a curious theological question)

or "Suicide is a sin...a question" (also pure theology)

or "Who are the real victims in the War on Terror?"

or any of the other 56 or so threads i have that don't have anything to do with a challenge to religion...

...so...
ok, maybe almost 3/4ths of my threads are a challenge to religion and/or against creationism/id (which isn't really a challenge to religion, just a very, very narrow religious view), but i do plenty that isn't based on religions

this isn't an "unhealthy obsession.

when i start a thread about evolution or against creationism it's because i want the science standards in the country i love to stay up and because i just love science so damn much and hate to see it corrupted by something that's just ridiculously unscientific when there is a something that's perfectly scientific and completely acceptable to anyone (even the religious) that works instead.

I have seen you repeatedly bait other members only to fall back as the victim all the while never owning up to what you did to contribute to the drama.

oh push off of it. i made a comment worded in a slightly crude was once and then got rightfully pissed off when someone questioned my sexuality (partially because questioning someone's sexuality isn't really an insult to a person so much as it is to common decency because being a homosexual isn't something wrong) is now "repeatedly"

You also seem to be awfully fond of the alert feature once those hapless individuals take your bait.

..i don't bait

and it's about levels
saying someone is pulling things from their rectal orifice and implying that the person who said that would like to get to know that orifice intimately are two highly, highly different things. it's like comparing a gentle slap on the face to a knee to the groin.

i don't dish out something particularly nasty, but when people troll you, following you around to the point where they have successive posts removed for being off topic on your threads, it's not about whether or not i can take what i dish out, because i don't sink to that level.

reply to post by dk3000


...scientology isn't atheistic.

Scientology and Dianetics state that the dynamic principle of existence is to survive[54] and that man survives across the "eight dynamics of Self, Family and Sex, Group, Humanity, the Animal and Vegetable Kingdoms, the Physical Universe, Spirits and God or Infinity".[55] The "dynamics," represented by the Scientology cross, must be considered equally[56]

...ok, it's from the wiki entry on scientology, but it's legit about them. they have a god concept, and thus aren't atheistic at all.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
christian friends?

ducky
dbates
jj
saint

3/137. Excellent ratio. I did say there was one that I could see. Dbates is the one I was referring to but now see you have two others as well (not sure if one of them is a Christian which is why I am saying 3 while you listed 4). But do the ratios in your friends/foes list not stand out to you?

those are the very openly christian people on my friends list.

And all four of them are excellent people who I respect as well. Regardless, your foe's list is what makes me suspicious of your motives here along with your threads and posts. I'm not saying it's any of my business- I'm saying it's something I noticed to help you see where others are coming from.

the atheists that i find stupid don't deserve the time of being set as a "foe" there was one recently.

No, just the Christians. I understood that part.

i only take the time to "foe" someone when they deserve my attention...

MIMS. I recall you foeing me when I was only days old here and as soon as I put up a cross as my avatar (that you enjoyed raking me over the coals for in another thread). Your motives are clear.

it's a shame you don't have a spectrum, because some are respected (like you) others, not so much (not naming names there)

I don't add anyone as a foe because too many members here use the feature for no other reason than to insult the person they foed. When I was new I thought it was meant exactly for what it states: respected foes. Meaning, people I did not agree with but who kept me on my toes. After learning the ropes a bit more, I saw too many members who use the feature as a means to be insulting.

but as for the majority of people, i think it's just the demographics of the site that they mostly turn out to be christians...

What a coincidence. On the alternative side, amazing how those demographics didn't hold the same influence on your friends list.

as for my threads...well, someone has to talk about that stuff, don't they?

MIMS, again, you have every right to make threads about anything you want and to friend and foe whoever you want. I'm not here to criticize you for the threads you make or for having an interest in religion. But many of your threads and their titles are inflammatory bait. I chose not to list specific examples and instead only provided a link to your threads as a whole. The examples I am referring to are there for anyone to see who wants to.

..i don't bait

My entire point is not your foes list or your threads in and of themselves. That's your own business. The point is you seem to be the one who placing the wedge there and are the one creating the 'it's us against the world' atmosphere. When you draw a line in the sand, intentional or not, people are going to take their sides.

[edit on 4/20/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by AshleyD

I'm not here to criticize you for the threads you make

You got that right...... you've criticised his threads, his posts and his friends and foes list too!

I think you have shown us all the reason for this thread.

Should I add you to MY foes list?

Originally posted by nerbot
Should I add you to MY foes list?

Can't be bothered to care really.

Oh, and since you seemed to miss the point of why I brought it all up, allow me reiterate by quoting myself:

"My entire point is not your foes list or your threads in and of themselves. That's your own business. The point is you seem to be the one who placing the wedge there and are the one creating the 'it's us against the world' atmosphere. When you draw a line in the sand, intentional or not, people are going to take their sides."

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and it's about levels
saying someone is pulling things from their rectal orifice and implying that the person who said that would like to get to know that orifice intimately are two highly, highly different things. it's like comparing a gentle slap on the face to a knee to the groin.

I also wanted to briefly touch upon the above.

MIMS, if you say something crude like that to another poster (which you did and I'm glad to see you admit that it was crude), then that is baiting. So, do not be surprised when the other member responds in kind or on another 'level,' as you put it. You cannot bait someone then tell them how they are entitled to respond. Of course there are T&C's in place and, again, neither of you should have taken the discussion the place it went.

Regardless, it is cowardice to say that to someone and then click the alert button when they stand on their own two feet to take you on instead of running off crying with their tail between their legs after you verbally abuse them. If you can't handle a heatedly-worded rebuttal then don't make the heatedly-worded bait comment to begin with.

And you might consider your actions comparable to a 'slap in the face' but the real question is why slap that person in the face to begin with? Stop 'slapping others in the face' and just maybe your 'groin' will be safe in return. If you and this member have problems with each other then the best thing to do is ignore each other instead of the repeated provocation back and forth. Therefore, making his face and your groin safe and sound.

[edit on 4/20/2008 by AshleyD]

You know madness.
I am far from the type to "jump on the bandwagon" and I hope it shows in my actions and words.

But if you will remember what Ashley is saying now is very similar to what I ranted at you.
Some of which you said you agreed with.

And I can honestly say I understand where your coming from as I received the same harassment you received then and I also GAVE the same harassment the same harassment you and they gave.

Ashley isn't a bad person against you because of your belief system Madness.
Otherwise me being a outspoken pagan and her would be at blows much like you and Con most likely. Which is obviously not the case as Ashley is someone I consider a good friend.

And a little advice, at least try to see what they are saying before you dismiss them. I don't know if you do already but I assume not somewhat.

I mean at the end of the day, I get along with these people despite the fact we don't share belief systems and I make no bones about telling them that.
And the same people you are at loggerheads with.
You can imagine what I would think if you were in that situation.
Especially after having such problems with you, myself, in the past.

Just my two cents. Hope that sounded less rambly then I think it sounds..


[edit on 20-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]