Unexplainable Debris

Originally posted by nablator
reply to post by Balez

 

In the first two seconds there is something moving in the top left corner... not sure what's so interesting there. Later we see spinning debris, no surprise. We don't know how big they are. They could be some of the objects, bigger than about 4 inches, tracked by NASA.
100,000 Pieces Of Trash In Space Poses No Shortage Of Risks

It's the first object that caught my interesting, white dots aren't so much interesting.
The first object comes from the lower right corner and moves up to the upper left corner, it reflects the station (MIR, ISS?).
That i think is interesting....

reply to post by andre18

So in your mind what would classify as an intelligently controlled object?

There are many ways it could be unequivocally distinguished from space junk. If an object accelerates on its own (and the observed acceleration cannot be explained by a combination of known external forces), or generates its own light (staying bright when there's no sunlight), or if you can see its shape close up, and a small grey is looking at you through a porthole, it would be good evidence too.

If we had two views from two cameras, it would be easy to check the object's distance. Any object accelerating instantly or strongly without explanation (sunlight, RCS thrusters, etc.) would be extremely suspicious.

An unusual shape is not proof of anything. This piece of space debris caused a slight sensation when it was found 'traveling' close to the Atlantis Space Shuttle:

Obviously objects that can change direction on their own aren’t enough evidence, even if they’re two miles in diameter or some how happen to appear out of nowhere.

It would be good evidence if it were true, but there is no evidence of that. That's your interpretation. Mine is different. Some researchers are not aware that very small debris are more accelerated than big debris by radiation pressure from sunlight.

Seriously, I’m sure you’ve looked these videos enough times to have already made up your mind, but can you actually say that everything you’ve seen regarding the NASA footage is just normal and to be expected debris?

No, there is always a doubt. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... it may not be a duck. And I'm not an expert, what I said is only guesswork. Your guess is as good as mine.

Originally posted by Balez
The first object comes from the lower right corner and moves up to the upper left corner, it reflects the station (MIR, ISS?).
That i think is interesting....

Oh. The reflecting object at 0:02, 0:07, 0:14, is ... the transition between the edited cuts. Awesome. Yawn.

reply to post by nablator


Wow that didnt debunk any thing.

reply to post by nablator


As much as I enjoy your attempts at debunking all of this, I very much doubt you can explain intelligent formations….at the end of this video you see an object appearing in the centre of the formation – if not the formation without the centre object itself is enough evidence of intelligence but the appearance of the centre object (coming from nowhere mind you) should surely be enough evidence of intelligently controlled objects.

reply to post by andre18


On one of my trips to Kennedy Space Center to see a launch, I happened to meet an engineer (at a hotel bar) who's company was paying NASA to launch their payload. He was there to meet with NASA making some kind of preparations for this future event (payload launch & deployment).

The Company was out of New Mexico (Near White Sands I think he said) and they had some payload that (this is where I lost him) when deployed separated in to multiple units (he used different words) and did some kind of experiment or something about different spectrum's of ???, it was something nobody else can or had attempted to do before technology wise according to him. and at that point he said he couldn't tell me anymore as it was company secrets that would put them a leap ahead of others and I was kind of buzzed so I didn't exactly follow his entire explanation. He had cut off my further inquires and left, but at one point asked me to watch his briefcase while he went to the bathroom. I had a strange feeling he wanted to tell me more and I even had wondered if he wanted me take take his briefcase. (probably because I was too buzzed)

Edited remembering more as I go here, sorry.

Anyway, this conversation was after the event in your video, but for some reason this video brings back that conversation into my mind.

Are those our experiments or are we studying someone else's presence up there?


[edit on 5-4-2008 by verylowfrequency]

reply to post by verylowfrequency

Are those our experiments or are we studying someone else's presence up there?

There are some things that we just dont know what they bring with them up there.
Many things are probably classified as it is millitary related (the navy?).
At times NASA hides too much, and also switch views when something intereresting occurs, like the boring NASA mission controll center

reply to post by andre18


My definition of "clearly intelligently controlled objects" includes something like a definite purpose and movements against natural occurring forces, like a boat moving against the flow of a river, and that is something that I don't see in any of those videos.

Could you please explain how just the presence of an object that we do not know what it is can be seen as "clearly intelligently controlled objects"?

Thanks.

reply to post by ArMaP


Sure dude……firstly, Debris for what ever reason don’t just stay in one position do they – no, they fly in space in continues free fall…these objects and many others don’t seem to move at all…

Secondly, out of all the vids so far shown on this thread not a SINGLE object has crashed into another, you’d expect at least once or twice but by some miracle they seem to avoid each other….

Thirdly, the formation of these particular objects are in a, well, a formation… with not a single one bumping into each other or moving the slightest.

And lastly, an object appears out of nowhere which is larger then the other objects and remains motionless in the centre of the formation surrounding it…..

All these reasons surely point to intelligently controlled objects, if you would like to attempt to prove me wrong – be my guest..

Originally posted by andre18firstly, Debris for what ever reason don’t just stay in one position do they – no, they fly in space in continues free fall…these objects and many others don’t seem to move at all…

The eventual change of position of debris depends on the way they were created.

If something breaks on the space shuttle, for example, the resulting debris will keep on moving (mostly) as the shuttle was moving.

On the other hand, if the debris are the result of a collision between two satellites, then they will move in all directions.

Debris from a geostationary satellite will have a tendency to keep on the same geostationary orbit, looking like they are not moving at all when compared to the shuttle, that completes an orbit in 90 minutes, I think.

Also, there may be other things in space besides intelligently controlled objects and debris.

Secondly, out of all the vids so far shown on this thread not a SINGLE object has crashed into another, you’d expect at least once or twice but by some miracle they seem to avoid each other….

Why should there be collisions between debris? The only way of that happening would be for the debris to come from two (or more) origins, if you break something the debris do not move against each other, and that is not because we are not in space.

Thirdly, the formation of these particular objects are in a, well, a formation… with not a single one bumping into each other or moving the slightest.

By definition, any group of objects will be in a formation. If you do mean a geometrically precise formation, then those objects are not in one those, they look just like a group of objects. If you get a handful of pieces of bread and throw them in a river they will be in a moving formation but they are not under the control of any intelligence.

And lastly, an object appears out of nowhere which is larger then the other objects and remains motionless in the centre of the formation surrounding it…..

And why should there be any intelligence behind it? Do you think that clouds are intelligently controlled objects? They do appear out of nowhere, they move on formations or they stay in the same place, but, as far as I know, they are not under intelligent control.

All these reasons surely point to intelligently controlled objects, if you would like to attempt to prove me wrong – be my guest..

I don't want to prove you wrong, I just want to make you see that you may be wrong by assuming that what you don't understand has to have an intelligence behind it.

People may have thought in the past that lightnings, thunders, earthquakes, etc. had an intelligence behind them, but now we have a different understanding of things, although that does not mean that we know all there is to be know, far from it.

Originally posted by andre18
And this.....well this is what I like to call - getting owned

3:25 please explain – object obviously changing direction and slowing down after changing direction

4:15 again please explain.....

4:30 large object is moving – 4:50 appears to have completely stopped while other objects are still moving.

5:36 object appears out of nowhere




6:21 object appears out of nowhere from the right



[edit on 30-3-2008 by andre18]

Your right this video is astounding. I would like to hear NASA'a explanation on this vid.
I don't see any other xplanation other than an Intelligently controlled craft.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by andre18firstly, Debris for what ever reason don’t just stay in one position do they – no, they fly in space in continues free fall…these objects and many others don’t seem to move at all…

The eventual change of position of debris depends on the way they were created.

If something breaks on the space shuttle, for example, the resulting debris will keep on moving (mostly) as the shuttle was moving.

On the other hand, if the debris are the result of a collision between two satellites, then they will move in all directions.

Debris from a geostationary satellite will have a tendency to keep on the same geostationary orbit, looking like they are not moving at all when compared to the shuttle, that completes an orbit in 90 minutes, I think.

Also, there may be other things in space besides intelligently controlled objects and debris.

Secondly, out of all the vids so far shown on this thread not a SINGLE object has crashed into another, you’d expect at least once or twice but by some miracle they seem to avoid each other….

Why should there be collisions between debris? The only way of that happening would be for the debris to come from two (or more) origins, if you break something the debris do not move against each other, and that is not because we are not in space.

Thirdly, the formation of these particular objects are in a, well, a formation… with not a single one bumping into each other or moving the slightest.

By definition, any group of objects will be in a formation. If you do mean a geometrically precise formation, then those objects are not in one those, they look just like a group of objects. If you get a handful of pieces of bread and throw them in a river they will be in a moving formation but they are not under the control of any intelligence.

And lastly, an object appears out of nowhere which is larger then the other objects and remains motionless in the centre of the formation surrounding it…..

And why should there be any intelligence behind it? Do you think that clouds are intelligently controlled objects? They do appear out of nowhere, they move on formations or they stay in the same place, but, as far as I know, they are not under intelligent control.

All these reasons surely point to intelligently controlled objects, if you would like to attempt to prove me wrong – be my guest..

I don't want to prove you wrong, I just want to make you see that you may be wrong by assuming that what you don't understand has to have an intelligence behind it.

People may have thought in the past that lightnings, thunders, earthquakes, etc. had an intelligence behind them, but now we have a different understanding of things, although that does not mean that we know all there is to be know, far from it.

Good job now try and explain the DIRECTION CHANGE of all those objects in the vid I posted above.........

reply to post by Alien Abduct


OK.

I think that the object pointed by the red arrow (this was the first object that I saw changing direction on that video, and it appears three times) does not change direction, the camera is the one who changes, the zoom is changed and so the image changes. You can see that all other things change in any way.

The object that changes direction at 4:15 is consistent with the theory that small debris or ice particles appear on videos and are blown away by the shuttle's manoeuvring rockets because it changes direction after a short flash of light and the way it changes direction looks consistent with something being blown away, but I don't know if that is the case.

Those are the only objects that I see changing direction on that video.

The fact that I don't see anything that must be under intelligent control to have that behaviour does not mean that I know why those things have those trajectories, I only said that there is no need of an intelligent being controlling an object to see it change direction.

And lastly, an object appears out of nowhere which is larger then the other objects and remains motionless in the centre of the formation surrounding it…..

And why should there be any intelligence behind it? Do you think that clouds are intelligently controlled objects? They do appear out of nowhere, they move on formations or they stay in the same place, but, as far as I know, they are not under intelligent control.

Hang on what...."why shouldn't there be any intelligence behind it?" because it appeared out of nowhere..... how can literally say it's not intelligently controlled?....I mean, it appears out of nowhere....c-mon dude - do you just block it out of your mind or something and ignore it? For bloody sake an object magically appears out of now - that's pretty amazing for ice
debris

Even in the video ‘Alien Abduct’ pointed out, there’s another object appearing at 5:36 out of nowhere…..dude…please explain

Originally posted by andre18
And lastly, an object appears out of nowhere which is larger then the other objects and remains motionless in the centre of the formation surrounding it…

Motionless in 2D is not motionless in 3D. The object could be moving towards the camera.

For bloody sake an object magically appears out of now - that's pretty amazing for ice debris

Even in the video ‘Alien Abduct’ pointed out, there’s another object appearing at 5:36 out of nowhere…..dude…please explain.

I could be the shadow of the shuttle, making small ice particles appear / disappear from view. You can try a simple experiment with dust in the air. It is visible only when illuminated by strong sunlight.

I have no problem with parallel universes, teleportation and aliens, but only when simple explanations have been ruled out.

reply to post by andre18


So, do you think that appearing without any previous clue to an observer is a sign of intelligence?

As you did not commented it, I will use again a cloud as an example of a thing that appears out of nowhere and that may move or stay in the same place without giving us any indication of what is going to happen.

Does this means that the cloud is intelligently controlled?

Or crystallisation, do you think crystals are intelligently controlled just because of the way they appear?



Do you understand now why I think that this can not be used as indication of inteligent behaviour?

So, do you think that appearing without any previous clue to an observer is a sign of intelligence?

Does this means that the cloud is intelligently controlled?

The difference is there are no clouds to cause objects to look like they've appeared and then disappeared - in space there isn't anything like that.
In the vid you can see a number of smaller objects surrounding it and not simply appearing from nowhere, indicating there's nothing to cause these objects to seem to be appearing from nowhere...otherwise all the objects would be appearing out of nowhere and not just the centre object.

Because these other objects are not appearing out of nowhere but the centred object is, this suggests it was able to appear from it's own accord....and not from some other effect - if you can explain exactly what is causing the object to seem to appear from nowhere that'd be great

Don’t give an example like “I could be the shadow of the shuttle, making small ice particles appear / disappear from view.” Because as I explained no other objects were affected by the shuttle’s shadow – it just makes no sense….

Originally posted by andre18
The difference is there are no clouds to cause objects to look like they've appeared and then disappeared - in space there isn't anything like that.

I didn't said (or at least that was not my intention) that the clouds make objects look like they appear and disappear, I said the clouds appear and disappear.

I don't know if you ever saw that happening, but it is very common to see a patch of blue sky suddenly giving place to a cloud or a group of clouds that grow apparently from nothing.

That is the same as the crystals on the video I posted (that unfortunately does not work as an embedded video, we have to click the link), a glass that looks like it has only some liquid fills with crystals that (apparently) appear from nothing.

That was my idea, those things look like they appear from nothing but they are not intelligently controlled.

Don’t give an example like “I could be the shadow of the shuttle, making small ice particles appear / disappear from view.” Because as I explained no other objects were affected by the shuttle’s shadow – it just makes no sense….

It makes sense, only you do not agree with it.

Unfortunately, I don't have any idea for the behaviour of the objects, and I think we shall never really know what those things were, even if we can identify similar objects in future occasions.

reply to post by ArMaP


Here’s something you should think about – why would NASA be interested in filming debris? It makes little sense that NASA would film bits of ice particles and separated parts of the shuttle just for fun…

reply to post by andre18


Other particles were affected by the shadow of the shuttle. You can see one at the opening of the video inside the shadow. The particle you are referring to enters into view at 1:14 in the shuttle's shadow. As it approaches the point where it appears, it seems to slow down because of relativity: farther distance = slower movement to observer. Also keep in mind the orbital path of the shuttle. Objects it leaves behind will eventually seem to rise.