Originally posted by Clearskies
I'm thinking you may be or just being willfully ignorant.
Someone already explained to you that Jeshua was explaining to his disciples that satan wouldn't logically cast out his own 'brethren' spirits! Or else his kingdom would be divided.

That may be the way it was explained to you by someone who wanted to twist it the way they wanted, and maybe you accept it as that. There are a lot of people who feel they have to do that.

But if you simply read what the verse says -- not what some enthusiastic preacher told you it says -- Jesus clearly says that he is using a prime demon, Beelzebub, to do his good works in an effort to turn the demon against Satan, therefore dividing Satan's kingdom to weaken and conquer it. This is after his own people said he'd lost his mind.

As for willful ignorance, I suggest that you dust off that Bible and re-read Matthew 7:5.

Originally posted by Clearskies

I KNOW that the antichrist will be believed to be Jeshua.
I believe that the rapture is our Lord's coming(if we don't die of something else first) for those accounted worthy, but, if we our feet are still on the Earth, It's the antichrist.

You know nothing of the truth, only fables which suit your conscience.

You seek only confirmation of your false belief in all the things your eyes fall upon.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Why do you look to a rapture to pull you from the hand you desire above all others, which you now hold, the hand of the antichrist.

The saints will be gathered this is true as will the wicked, but where is a rapture?

Does the lord come for all they which have Christ within, or which be in Christ?

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

You defraud the brethren your gift, yielding yourself to dumb idols.

How can you be clean?

How do you abstain from fornication with idols?

How is it you say you serve the Lord and preach the doctrine of devils and fables, that Jesus is God and your God lord Jesus shall rapture you?

What concord has Christ with the one that deceives the world?

Have you not been forewarned the Lord that comes for his, is an avenger?

Do you despise God who has given unto you his holy spirit?

15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Originally posted by Astyanax

Perish the thought that you merely here to hurl outrageous insults wrapped in Bible-babble at people who are doing no more than expressing their opinion.

Clearskies is under a spell it is a form of sorcery as are so many these days, I am just trying to cast the light on her so she can see and be liberated in her mind and live again.

Most modern day sorcerers that I have encountered normally operate in a religious context using their sorcery to entrap the minds of people and establish a following by giving off that they are the power of God like Simon the sorcerer did in the Book of Acts.

Ac 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

While religion is the main context you find these people in, their religious followings are what provides for their wealth and influence, it would be better to think of them as the ruling class because they also control or wield strong influence over all the political governmental systems for the most part.

These individuals make up the core of what the bible calls the mystery of lawlessness, only the terminology is completely outdated, like sorcerers, witches, warlocks, people in general do not see these sorts of things for what they are in reality or even think they exist in reality.

I do agree with Nohup but not in the way you think because power is power it does not mater if it comes from holy spirit source or unholy, if you call it sorcery or manifesting; it is spiritual power which is operated, which produces a definable measurable effect upon reality.

The power at work indirectly in clearskies life is a high spirit that was at the execution and confronted by the Messiah, one of the fallen that escaped imprisonment which is the driving force behind the christian religion.

It's name has changed over the years but it is hear with a legion of spirits and daemons that are now called anitichrist.

These demons are responsible for giving power to the words of men like Hagee and the leaders of the evangelical movement in general allowing them to have their followings and appear to be the great ones of God in the minds of people who search for truth and become entrapped by them.

The aim of these spirits is to prepare the way for Siccuth to return, once a king worshiped as the serpent God from the stars.

Power comes in differing levels, for instance science can be a form of power which an individual can use as a form of sorcery, but science is nothing to the power available through spirit because all physical things are limited in scope and potential whereas the spiritual is unlimited and infinite in potential.

I have no desire to manipulate people, I am a holy man who shows people how to evidence the gift of God, that has been my life, what God normally has me do is perform miracles that has been my thing for the most part.

Originally posted by newday
Clearskies is under a spell it is a form of sorcery as are so many these days, I am just trying to cast the light on her so she can see and be liberated in her mind and live again.

I have no desire to manipulate people, I am a holy man who shows people how to evidence the gift of God, that has been my life, what God normally has me do is perform miracles that has been my thing for the most part.

I see. Thank you.

You wouldn't care to cast some light in my direction, would you? Give me a reading, or whatever they call it?

Originally posted by Clearskies

Honestly, I don't know where you're coming from with your 'discernment'.

I come from a city where there are free people who offer refuge for the accused, where there is no condemnation.

Does God speak to you in the words I am writing, do you see the flickering of the light of God in the words I have written to you?

What is discernment?

Is it the thing you saw as a child or another saw in you as a women?

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You can discern, do I speak the truth of the matter?

Do you want to be free from the spell which holds your mind, the dirt kicked onto the fire, keeping your heart from the purity you know is your right in the new creation, from the warmth of the light of God?

There can be a rekindling, your soul can burn again a raging flame, ask for the word of God and it will be given, only ask in believing nothing wavering.

This thread is a most important thread with regard to conspiracies in religion, because from it you can see that religion itself is used as part of a conspiracy, as are all the systems of this world, whether they be religious, political, social, financial, educational, all the systems of this world are used as part of a conspiracy to keep the individual trapped in perpetual servitude to Satan by suppressing individualism and individual spirituality.

Certain groups and people are in league with the prince of the power of the air, and the terrestrial and non-terrestrial entities which are under his command.

The bible refers to this confederation of humans and non humans as the mystery of iniquity, or the secret of lawlessness.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:

This cabal of the wicked conspires in secret, they work now and have been working from the begriming to maintain control of all our labor and energy, constraining free expression, individualism and individual spirituality.

Religious systems, as all systems of control, while they may begin as true movements of God, they are built up and maintained by sorcery and the flesh, not by the spirit of God.

Most of the other systems like governmental and financial systems, use alien technologies, or direct demon and spirit power, to maintain control.

If God exists and is omnipotent, omnipresent, all powerful, and eternal, then what does He need religion for or any world system of control over man?

Would He have need or want of anything?

If God is true then did He give us life or did He give us a system of worship?

Why do people who know clearly, profess that God is a living God the creator of all life, and that life is what He desires we have above all else, why would they want for themselves and others a religion?

Are they not being manipulated by some force?

What is the original lie?

Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Why does religion in general and religious people for the most part perpetuate the lie that there is life after death?

Do we die, is death real?

The minds of people are being manipulated by sorcery to believe there is no death, not because of any evidence to the contrary but in spite of it.

The man in the bible born Jesus of Nazareth, described as the second son of God, the only begotten son of God, son of man, the savior of the world, the Messiah, the Christ, did not and was not attempting to establish a new religion nor support an old one.

Why was the son of God manifest in this world?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

All governmental systems, religious, political social, financial, all worldly governing systems are by their very nature obstructive to the will of God for the individual, every gain of power and control for a governing system are a loss of power and control by the individuals in that system.

Not recognizing the existence of the Devil is the result of fear born of lack of faith in God, because we don't believe God exists in reality and is capable of supplying for our every need, we turn to religions and worldly governing systems, failing to believe in the existence of Satan, looking to the hand of man, to the flesh and not the spirit, blind to the workings of the Devil or that of his confederates, furthering the aims of the mystery of iniquity on earth and in heaven.

The devil and his co-conspirators seek to maintain control and exploit man in the flesh to their service, the work they are doing, the cause for which they strive to accomplish in heaven and on earth.

Unlike God who appeals to the heart of man on an individual bases, by revealing His goodness and loving kindness, that each and every one of us would willfully and happily honor Him by offering ourselves living sacrifices and ordering our ways to manifest His gift of holy spirit, walking by the spirit and not by the sight of our five senses, that the energy and labor our lives might provide for the greatest possible benefit to us and all the people around us and the heavenly cause of truth justice and righteousness, the Devil and the members of the mystery of iniquity distract man through the flesh to keep us in bondage and perpetual servitude.

Satan uses the systems of this world, getting us to continue yielding or body and mind in service to him, diverting our labor into, rites and rituals, worthless ceremonies, moralities and codes of conduct, meaningless keeping of days and seasons, pointless traditions, all manor of worldly causes and purposes, all of which make contributions of service to the works of the devil and the secret of lawlessness when kept and performed without the direction and guidance of the spirit of God activity and dynamically enlivening us in real time as we go about our daily affairs in life and living.

The Devil does not have to win us to his cause we are born the children of disobedience, dead to God, alive only to the world and the rulers of the darkness of this world.

Col 2:13.a ¶ And you, being dead in your sins

There is no need for the devil to reconcile us to himself, he merely needs to prevent us from being reconciled to God, to prevent the empowerment of the individual, denying the individual the power to overcome his circumstance provided in the gift of holy spirit, making us dependant for our needs and wants on the systems of this world that he controls.

2Co 5:14.b we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

Consciousness is trapped in a quantum paradox, for this reason we can only serve the greater reality, as grass can only serve a greater reality, it is beyond our nature to do more of ourselves than provide service to the greater reality, as it is beyond the nature of grass to do more of its own than be grass.

Eph 2:2a Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world.

Eph 2:3b and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Religious systems are a part of a global conspiracy to force mankind to continue in the service of mammon.

If you say you believe in God but then you do not accept the existence of the devil you are a liar and make God a liar who has clearly told you that you are born into the hand of satan and the mystery of iniquity, the sons and daughters of men, children of disobedience, the sons and daughters of the first son of God, Adam, not of His seed.

I've been very busy this weekend, it was not just Easter yesterday, it was my son's birthday, too.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Yes, the Bible is Christian

I am amazed that such an inelegant women as yourself would dare to suggest before God, that His words ever could be the property or belong to any one religion even the Christian religion.

If the bible is Gods word then it is a gift to all people of all races and religions as is this world we all live on and the air we all breath, irrespective or what any one of us believes.

You called AshleyD inelegant? That's not nice.
You also said;

The bible is not a christian book and does not establish or favor any religion of any kind, people use it to do that.....

Christian: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. wiki

You don't believe in the Christian Bible or the Christian religion, why do you quote the Bible?


Deu 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

About your religion signature,
do you not know this;

Jam 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Religion; thrēskeia
1) religious worship

a) esp. external, that which consists of ceremonies

1) religious discipline, religion

***Hbr 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


You don't believe that Jeshua and the Father are One?

Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].
Luk 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and [he] to whom the Son will reveal [him].
Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

You think the Rapture is withcraft???
Rev 3:7 ¶ And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

He comes quickly, to gather us to himself.
For them that watch for him.

****Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.****
How can you watch for him if you don't believe he is coming for us?

If it weren't for the Christian Bible, I would never have been born-again.
If it weren't for some 'religious guy' on T.V., I wouldn't have heard the gospel.

Jeshua is a GOOD Shepherd, I have no need for another.

Originally posted by Clearskies

I've been very busy this weekend, it was not just Easter yesterday, it was my son's birthday, too.

Clearskies,

You don't believe me when I tell you that you are under a spell?

This thread is about sorcery and the possibility of Jesus being a sorcerer.

In my opinion you are being manipulated by sorcery if you believe Jesus is God.

I am simply offering to help you free yourself do you want help?

Could some kindly moderator please pull this thread back on topic?

Thank you,

Scamandrius

Originally posted by Astyanax
Could some kindly moderator please pull this thread back on topic?

Thank you,

Scamandrius

Scamandrius,

I was trying to make a point I feel is vitally important to the thread, that is that just as spirituality is real, so is sorcery.

It was my aim that clearskies would see that she was being manipulated by a form of religious sorcery and that she would want to be free.

Jesus confronted the religious individuals using sorcery, and the victims of their sorcery.

Both the Pharisees and the Sadducees were using sorcery to bewitch the minds of the people, the levin as it was called, which was contained in the teachings and ideas, such as re-incarnation and life after death, had to be confronted in order to free the peoples minds, before they could experience the power of God.

Mt 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

There is levin in the religious idea of the trinity, of Jesus being God, it bewitches the minds of people like clearshies today who believe it, keeping them from manifesting spiritual power, which they claim is their desire to do in reality, to walk as he walked, with the power of God in evidence in their lives.

You must be pure in mind and body that is what it means to be holy, no leaven in your mind, you must achieve this in order to manifest power from on high.

These ideas are polluted and offense to the heart of God, who would have us all experience the exceeding greatness of His power in us when we believe, not just mentally accent to it, that is the trap of sorcery which keeps men locked their minds, mentally polluted, bewitched into never manifesting the power of God in reality.

On every thread on this site whenever someone talks about power of any kind, holy or unholy, they do so like religious people talking about God, as if it is all some sort of esoteric concept of theology, as if it is not real and does not affect peoples lives and reality in any anyway.

What good is it to talk about sorcery if no one believes it is at work in their life, or that it doesn't even exist.

As with God also, what good is it to talk about God as if He doesn't exist and can't or won't actually do anything in real life, what is the point?

If it is a conspiracy then it must be real, correct?

If sorcery is not real then how can there be a conspiracy of sorcery, and why continue to talk about it?

People need to see evidence that it exist just as they need proof that God exists, both can and should be proven in my opinion, then the conversation will be much more enlightening for sure, don't you think?

Does the sorcery have to be real?

Originally posted by newday
On every thread on this site whenever someone talks about power of any kind, holy or unholy, they do so like religious people talking about God, as if it is all some sort of esoteric concept of theology, as if it is not real and does not affect peoples lives and reality in any anyway.

What good is it to talk about sorcery if no one believes it is at work in their life, or that it doesn't even exist...

If it is a conspiracy then it must be real, correct?

If sorcery is not real then how can there be a conspiracy of sorcery, and why continue to talk about it?

All right, fair go's, this is on topic.

But sorcery doesn't have to be for real for the conspiracy to be real.

All that is required is for all those involved in the conspiracy to believe that sorcery is real. That's enough of a motive to get the conspiratorial ball rolling.

Remember, the conspiracy Nohup is proposing is not contemporary; it was hatched, executed -- if you'll pardon the execrable pun -- and wound up two thousand years ago.

We're still living with the fallout, though.

[edit on 25-3-2008 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by Astyanax

But sorcery doesn't have to be for real for the conspiracy to be real.

I disagree with your take here, for it to be a conspiracy of sorcery, then you are only half right, their can be a conspiracy but it would not be one of sorcery if sorcery is not real.

Wouldn't it serve the interest of the thread to show some kind of evidence that sorcery exist today and is real today?

If you can give some evidence that sorcery in religion exists today and is being used then wouldn't that go a long way to proving that it existed in the past?

This stuff is old hat to me I have helped people liberate themselves many time form religious sorcery.

If I can cast enough light in clearskies direction, that she sees the hand of God in my words, she will take it.

It is clear to me from what she has said, she wants to feel the warmth of God at work in her life again, to once again enjoy the comfort and rest to the soul that personally experiencing and evidencing the gift of God brings.

1Co 14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

It would serve the interest of this thread if we could see that response evoked in someone it is powerful when it is witnessed, that is where I was attempting to bring clearskies to.

I can't get her there until she will honestly ask what she would have God do for her to prove He is present in this contestation.

People need help to evidence the power of God they lack faith, and are often not holy or clean in their minds, they are contaminated by religious dogma.

Jesus taught that the mind must be single.

One element of religious sorcery is to divide the mind away from God by putting a wedge in between it and God, this plug is contained in the doctrine of devils, as Jesus called it the, "levin" of the Sadducees, the Pharisees and Herod, it is conveyed to the mind of a person in the "levin," that is the political and religious dogma.

The teachings themselves simply provide a format or an excuse for us to allow our egos to maintain dominance over self, keeping the mind divided from God, but the wedge contained in the idea is a form of energy which keeps a certain area of consciousness, dimensionally speaking, open to the spiritual reality where both worlds, ours and theirs cross, at the quantum level, like a door stop, allowing dark energy to be poured in when a specific spiritual force or entity is present, causing a darkening of the mind and of the heart, some times to the point where a person becomes forever blind to the truth, or in bible babel as you call it, seared with a hot iron, or sin unto death, filled to overflowing with dark energy, blotting out the light of God to our consciousness by diluting it with pollutants.

This is what is meant in the phrase, "eyes that cannot see, ears that cannot hear,"

God is going to allow a great deception at some point in time to come into this world, a lying sprit to deceive the world into following the son of perdition

The spiritual energy which forms the wedge left in clearskies mind by religious sorcery, is from anti-christ spirits, it is their job to prepare the way for the return of the God man.

Wouldn't you like to see someone confess to having their minds darkened by religious sorcery?

Would that help this thread?

God has moved in me to help numerous people free themselves and evidence the power of God, I can help clearskies do the same, if she will open her heart to God and ask what she needs God to do in her life to show that He is here in the words I am saying, reaching out His hand to pull her up out of the spell that holds her mind and prevents the power of God from returning again to her life.


[edit on 25-3-2008 by newday]

Originally posted by Nohup

Originally posted by Clearskies
I'm thinking you may be or just being willfully ignorant.
Someone already explained to you that Jeshua was explaining to his disciples that satan wouldn't logically cast out his own 'brethren' spirits! Or else his kingdom would be divided.

That may be the way it was explained to you by someone who wanted to twist it the way they wanted, and maybe you accept it as that. There are a lot of people who feel they have to do that.

But if you simply read what the verse says -- not what some enthusiastic preacher told you it says -- Jesus clearly says that he is using a prime demon, Beelzebub, to do his good works in an effort to turn the demon against Satan, therefore dividing Satan's kingdom to weaken and conquer it. This is after his own people said he'd lost his mind.

As for willful ignorance, I suggest that you dust off that Bible and re-read Matthew 7:5.

You show me how this isn't clear as day:

M't:12:25: And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
M't:12:26: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
M'r:3:24: And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
M'r:3:25: And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
M'r:3:26: And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

It has nothing to do with divide and conquer, needs no explanation either.

A little note here. The word itself, Sorcery, has attained a pejorative connotation in our predominantly Christian society. It implies Evil and malign magic.

But in earlier particularly pre-Christian times, it was looked on as a powerful means to achieve ends, and I say with less censure. A sorceror might be feared, but not because he was tapping into Satanic forces, as he would be today.

In a world where it was recognized that different cultures had different pantheons, different qualities and sources of magic might have been seen the way we look at different military weapons today.


Mike