Chinese Security Forces Swarm Tibet

CNN is a typical anti-China media, have you ever seen any positvie comments from CNN?

Actually in America CNN is referred to as "Communist Nightly News" because it is so friendly to China.

CNN criticises USA every day in it's broadcasts. That's because it is fair and impartial. It does not allow the US Government to influence or censor it's stories.

I have never heard the Chinese news media criticise it's own Government. That's because it does give a balanced and truthful account. Only what the communist party wants told.

The whole Olympics is just a big fairy tale to convince the outside world how wonderful China is while they hide the truth.

The fact your country blocks the internet to prevent criticism and bans journalists tells me who the liars are.

If everybody is lying about Tibet then why not let all Chinese hear both sides of the story and debate the issues ?

If it's all untrue then a debate will solve everything but China a country which can't stand the truth.

You think I learned everything from one historian.

Well in my country and in the west we're free to go to the library and read any books we like, watch any TV channel we like, watch the internet without censorship. We're free to make up our own minds and listen to many historians and you know what ?

It isn't just one historian.

In china there is one version of history and that is what the State allows to be printed in school text books.

FREE TIBET






[edit on 19-3-2008 by sy.gunson]

Originally posted by sy.gunson
Actually in America CNN is referred to as "Communist Nightly News" because it is so friendly to China.

Your saying that as if you think people have never seen CNN. I watched CNN and no way is it "Communist Nightly News" to either China or Communism

What would make me incredibly agry would be if the West decided NOT to boycott the games, but instead attempted to step in forcefully at a later date. A boycott is a MUCH better way of sending the Chinese regime a strong message, resulting in no deaths.

But of course we all know that the big players would have far more invested in a no-boycott, yes-war resolution. So it wouldn't surprise me to see the games go ahead and conflict at a later date.

Originally posted by West Coast
They are free.

Actually, its Europs fault.

How so? The vast majority of native American oppression occurred in the 19th Century. That makes it the USA's fault.

Originally posted by West Coast
I don't understand how you can possibly justify the actions by the Chinese atrocities of TODAY, by rehashing something that happened centuries ago, in a time where no one living today, is, or should be held responsible.

What china is, and has been doing for the past few decades is wrong.

Maybe because this has been going on for centuries, it makes it relevant. You can't sidestep the issue of the NA because it "was too long ago", yet chastise the Chinese. Tibet and China have been intertwined for far longer than White settlers have even been in America.

Originally posted by West Coast
It most certainly would not ruin the world economy! For some strange reason, the people in the UK view china as a superpower, when it is simply not.

I never said ANYTHING about a superpower, so don't get you panties in a twist because you feel I threatened the great USA.

A civil war in China WOULD hurt the world economy severely. How you can think otherwise is beyond me.

reply to post by Rockpuck


There is an independence movement in Wales, as there is in Scotland. It is a minority, but significant none the less.

It's funny that Americans are on here saying things like "No one should be forced under another government just because its the easiest and most convenient way" .

What about the Confederacy? What about the Native American nations? What about the myriad of tin-pot dictators the USA has KEPT in power to serve it's own interests? I could produce an extensive list of America denying many people the same right you seem to hold so dear.

Do you not feel like the slightest bit of a hypocrite?

Hasn't read the whole thread.

But, come on, don't be hypocratic. Call a spade a spade.

I just got off my nightly news programme on TV. Those freaking monks and Tibetians are violent. With videos showing them carrying spears, knifes, swords, stoning everyone, beating burning everything. It seems that the Tibetians are conducting ethnic cleansing according to one Spanish tourist. Every innocent victims seems to be Chinese in Tibetan Capital. And, man, the footage in Gansu (Spelling) reminds me of the Mongol Army on horse back, on the way to plunder. Peaceful .. my arse.

It's like being beaten/knifed by a mob, no one there to help, and the police standing nearby could not do anything, because some foriegn Leaders are asking them to Restrain from using force to crack down on "peaceful protesters". What Fuvking Bullsh!t... and American and BBC MSM are just waiting for it, and mis-represent the situation there.. and paints it as a new tiananmen incident.. reinstated China back into "Human rights" list, which they couldn't answer why they took it off. Now, I understood. Any Western countries would have pound on those "Peaceful Protesters" like in the LA riots.

If this were to be in my country, like every other countries, I'll be called up for reservist, and be shooting every one of them. I have the basic right to defend myself, like the Tibetan think the have the right to kill and run amok.

"Peaceful Protest".. my arse. Just because the US funds these Exile Groups doesn't not mean they can do anything they want.

On another note, most sources only accounts that there are afew hundreds of "Peaceful protesters" in a few seperate locations.. why then, is it being claimed that the Tibetans (as if the whole 6 million Tibetan population) are angry, and are running Amok ? I don't see them rushing from their homes into the streets ? I think they hoped for that.. but it did not occur. Only some focus groups are leading and rioting. So, stop reading from these so-call free press that got you into Iraq.


[edit on 19-3-2008 by mobydog]

Why not have everyone show up to the games. Get the crowds on live international TV, screaming. "FREE TIBET, FREE TIBET, FREE TIBET, FREE TIBET...."


How embarrassing that would be for China, and what could they do? Nothing.

reply to post by stumason

There is an independence movement in Wales, as there is in Scotland. It is a minority, but significant none the less.

And there is an independance movement in Cornwall as well lol.

None of these hold much weight, none are publicly demanded on a large scale, none suffer riots, and none have a government in exile.

It's funny that Americans are on here saying things like "No one should be forced under another government just because its the easiest and most convenient way" .

Its funny that an Englishman has to support the suppression of others because of self insecurities involving the make up of his union......

What about the Confederacy?

An Illegal war of aggression on behalf of the Union. But uh.. that was over a hundred years ago.. I mean.. if we want to go back over a hunred years we could always talk about Englands illegal occupation of Ireland, or South Africa, or India...

What about the Native American nations?

Indians where doing just fine until England came and began a systematic slaughter of their people.

Then naturall America carried on the tradition .. but if we want to make it an American tradgedy, let us not forget who started it.. the Hypocrit English.

What about the myriad of tin-pot dictators the USA has KEPT in power to serve it's own interests?

What about the myrad of English dictators the English have kept and placed in power... all the Middle Eastern problems?

English. Caused by the English after WWI.

Or we could talk about the dictators the USSR/Russia kept/placed in power.. or China as well...

I could produce an extensive list of America denying many people the same right you seem to hold so dear.

I could make an extensive list going back 1800 years of England doing the smae.. or France, or Spain, Italy, various African and Asian countries, Australia even..

So.. I fail to see your point..

Unless..

Is it..

Because America killed Indians like the English before them over a hundred years ago..

Its now OK for China to suppress and murder Tibet revolutionaries?

Makes sense..

Perfect English logic..

China says locked in 'life and death' battle with Dalai Lama forces over Tibet

Chinese officials blasted the Dalai Lama as a "wolf in monk's robes" Wednesday and said protests among Tibetans this month have sparked a life-and-death struggle between China and followers of the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader.

State media, meanwhile, reported more than 100 people had surrendered to police in and around Tibet's regional capital of Lhasa, where peaceful protests against Chinese rule turned violent last Friday. The communist government had promised leniency for those who handed themselves in and harsh punishment for those who did not.

"The violent crime instigated by the Dalai clique is nothing but a symbol that shows fierce head-on combat between us and the Dalai clique," Raidi was quoted as saying by Xinhua on Wednesday.

The Dalai Lama, who fled Tibet during the 1959 uprising, has urged his followers to remain peaceful, saying he would resign as head of the Tibetan government-in-exile if violence got out of control.

However, he also suggested China may have fomented unrest in the Lhasa and nearby provinces to discredit him.

The protests have focused world attention on China's human rights record ahead of the Olympics, prompting discussion of a possible boycott of the Games' Aug. 8 opening ceremony and calls from U.S. officials and others for China to address Tibetans' grievances and engage in direct talks with the Dalai Lama.

I'm sure China will be using these events as best they can to do as much damage as they can to the Dalai lama but "The Dalai is a wolf in monk's robes, a devil with a human face but the heart of a beast,".. come on.

Do they really expect anyone to actually believe the Dalai Lama only pretends to be a nice person, im sure a lot of Chinese will believe it, but seriously, everything ive heard the Chinese say so far sounds like there living in some fantasy world.

Simple fact is, the more you mistreat a group of people, directly or indirectly the more they will become angry with you. I don't condone the violence, but honestly what did you expect would happen? They have been containing there frustration and anger with the Chinese for so many years, a crack is bound to appear some time.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
And there is an independance movement in Cornwall as well lol.

None of these hold much weight, none are publicly demanded on a large scale, none suffer riots, and none have a government in exile.

Indeed there is (I am, after all, Cornish). there is also a Kernow Parliament which has been trying for some time to get Cornish rights restored.

The Scottish do, on many occasions, appear to "demand" independence. the only thing holding them back is a realisation that they couldn't afford to run the country without English tax revenue.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Its funny that an Englishman has to support the suppression of others because of self insecurities involving the make up of his union......

I never said I supported the methods, so don't put words in my mouth. I can, however, see why China claims Tibet.

You seem to miss my whole point entirely, which is none too surprising as subtlety is not an American trait. Perhaps I should just spell it out?

I WILL NOT criticise China for doing what WE have been doing ourselves and happily do even today. Hence, I will not be a hypocrite. All I said in support of China is I can understand their POV.

Understand? Hope so....

Originally posted by Rockpuck
An Illegal war of aggression on behalf of the Union. But uh.. that was over a hundred years ago.. I mean.. if we want to go back over a hunred years we could always talk about Englands illegal occupation of Ireland, or South Africa, or India...

South Africa? No illegal occupation there...

I might point out here that the sole reason Britain went into India in the first place was to prevent Russian expansion. We were far more interested in Africa, not the Far East. Look into the Great Game and learn some history. That is no excuse, but it is a reason.

I won't make excuses for my countries imperialist past. I can accept we did wrong. Why is it so difficult to understand? Perhaps you feel the need to do this in order to make you feel secure in your national history?

The point I was making, which again you missed entirely and instead went on the defensive, was that America cannot sit there and criticise China, when they have done things themselves and continue to do so.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Indians where doing just fine until England came and began a systematic slaughter of their people.

Systemic? You do know that means planned and methodical, don't you?

It is generally accepted that the initial loss of NA people was due largely to disease, brought inadvertently to the continent by ALL settlers, not just the English settlers in the North East.

The systemic slaughter, as you put it, began with the Indian Wars the USA gleefully took part in during the 19th century.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Then naturall America carried on the tradition .. but if we want to make it an American tradgedy, let us not forget who started it.. the Hypocrit English.

Hypocrite English? How so? As far as I am aware, the UK doesn't call for the independence of Tibet, as we recognise the Chinese authority over the Region due to the Anglo-Russian and Anglo-Chinese conventions of the 1906 and 1907.

If your referring to me specifically, point out my hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
What about the myrad of English dictators the English have kept and placed in power... all the Middle Eastern problems?

English. Caused by the English after WWI.

I think I should correct you here on your free use of the adjective "English". If your going to blame my country for stuff whilst denying your own countries activities, at least get it right. It's British.

Aside from that, yes, my country has done it's fair share of playing the global bastard, which, again, is why I will not stand on my soap box and scream

"FREE TIBET! FREE TIBET!"

As that would make me a monumental hypocrite.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Or we could talk about the dictators the USSR/Russia kept/placed in power.. or China as well...

Indeed. So who are we to tell China to give up something it regards as theirs and has been that way for 1200 years or so.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I could make an extensive list going back 1800 years of England doing the smae.. or France, or Spain, Italy, various African and Asian countries, Australia even..

Indeed. Do you realise that you are actually supporting the very bloody argument I have been trying to make? Everyone has been doing this crap throughout history and many still do today. Why is China/Tibet the only one you seem to care about?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
So.. I fail to see your point..

Unless..

Is it..

Because America killed Indians like the English before them over a hundred years ago..

Its now OK for China to suppress and murder Tibet revolutionaries?

Makes sense..

Perfect English logic..

I think you can understand my point entirely, you just don't want to admit that China/Tibet is no different to any other territorial dispute, yet for some reason, they are singled out as being the bad guys.

Originally posted by stumason
Aside from that, yes, my country has done it's fair share of playing the global bastard, which, again, is why I will not stand on my soap box and scream

"FREE TIBET! FREE TIBET!"

As that would make me a monumental hypocrite.

But I've seen you on your soap box on several occasions denouncing the US for what it does and has done. That's pretty hypocritical as well, IMO.

I suspect you had no part in the decision making when your country played "global bastard", so if you feel China should leave Tibet be, you can say it. Just as you've had no problem saying the US should get out of Iraq, etc., which I agree with.

reply to post by stumason


Look..

I see your point better then you think I do..

However, I still disagree..

You are saying that it is wrong for us to condemn China because America and Britain have all done/do the same thing..

However..

That does NOT make it right. At all. If anything, it shows how wrong it really is..

I would support a million free nations over 186 nations with millions living in suppression because of ethnic, cultural and historic differences..

Just because someone says they own something, does not mean they have an actual right to what they claim..

America could annex the entire world if it wanted, slaughter all those who opposed them but would that be ok?

China will claim anything to keep or consolidate power.. would you support Tawain going to China? I believe the Tawainese would have an objection.....

Or how about this.. did you support Hong Kong going back to China instead of independance or continued English Rule?

Was quite a culture shock to go from Democratic Capitalism to Communism with Capitalistic exploitation to make the power seat more powerful..

The same damn thing occured in Kossovo.. People are against Kosovo sometimes for insanely stupid reasons.. like "theres to many countries already!" or "Serbia has more of a right to the land!" completely forgetting the simple fact that.. the majority of the population was culturally different.. and thus deserve their own nation.

You may not support China's methods, and you may support their POV.. but the actions used is, imo, enough insight to tell you "something is fundementally wrong here" ..

But I've seen you on your soap box on several occasions denouncing the US for what it does and has done. That's pretty hypocritical as well, IMO.

Indeed, as I have criticised my own country in the same breath for doing the same thing, such as invade Iraq. However, invading a sovereign country is another thing entirely to trying to hold your nation together, which is what the Chinese are trying to do.

If they let Tibet go, other ethnic groups would soon follow suit. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is another story, but from the Chinese POV, it isn't something they would allow to happen.

Would YOU be happy if Carolina decided to succeed? regardless whether it is morally right or wrong, would you allow the precedent to be set that led to the break up of your country? People in Carolina are quite a different mix to say, California, after all.

America could annex the entire world if it wanted, slaughter all those who opposed them but would that be ok?

No, as that isn't quite the same thing, is it? America has no historical or legal claim to the world. China. however, does to Tibet.

China will claim anything to keep or consolidate power.. would you support Tawain going to China? I believe the Tawainese would have an objection....

yes, I would. The Taiwanese Government is basically the nationalist forces that lost the Chinese civil war to the communists. Taiwan is also historically linked to China. They have a good claim.

Or how about this.. did you support Hong Kong going back to China instead of independance or continued English Rule?

It's British.. By the way, some of the most prominent imperialists in British history were Scottish and Welsh... Just FYI...

And, in answer to your question, HK was on a 99 year lease. It was always Chinese, we were just tenants.

You may not support China's methods, and you may support their POV.. but the actions used is, imo, enough insight to tell you "something is fundementally wrong here" ..

Indeed. Killing people isn't the answer, but I doubt the Chinese response is that much different to how OUR Governments would respond to massive civil unrest as well. I do not see what we can criticise them about, to be honest.

After all, the British Army killed quite a few catholics during unrest in NI during the 70's...

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Uhuh. Does it matter if I've been there? #, my dad goes to China all the time. Does that count?

This is a perfect example of what I HATE: people taking someone else's word for something without any sort of their own experience. That shows illogical thought process and the perfect mind for ignorance to thrive in.

Don't get big daddy to get the information for you. Go get it yourself, and from an uncorrupted, reliable source.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
However, I have found a few pictures if you really are interested:

Wow, those pictures you pasted show NOTHING. Some Tibetan guy with just some random police officers standing there, barely even noticing him and another picture of a Tibetan monk being held still by whom? INDIAN POLICE? When did you ever see the word "Indian" anywhere in this thread title?? This is just pure idiocy.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
A lot of the Tibetan protestors are in exile, so granted there aren't any Chinese police attacking them.

This is even more contradiction with what other Americans are saying here. They say "Tibetans are being brutally attacked by Chinese police" and many were even "killed by Chinese police". This is WHY I don't believe this completely false lie by many of our ignorant Americans. What to believe??? Every person says something different! You just stated that there are no Chinese police attacking them!

Originally posted by biggie smalls
I've actually found more Indian police in scuffles with the Tibetan protestors than the Chinese. Weird.

Mmm. I wonder why. If only text could show sarcasm.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
I really don't believe everything I read/see in the media, in fact, very little of it.

Really, now? Then where did you get all these wonderful tales that you seem so sure about? Not from the media, eh? THEN WHERE THE HELL IS IT ALL COMING FROM??? Are you some psychic that can see everything in the world? Are you on board some sort of spaceship currently in orbit around the Earth and you just happen to be flying over Tibet with a pair of binoculars?

Originally posted by biggie smalls
To be honest, the Chinese police seem like girl scouts compared to some of the cops I've met/seen in the states.

So much for the "violent Chinese cops". But I actually agree with you on this one. The Chinese police are too soft-handed. If this were America and there was a riot, American police would pull out GUNS and BATONS and handle it the proper way which is to beat anyone that is potentially harming any civilians around himself or herself.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Thanks Greg but I don't think you know me well enough to say that.

I wasn't referring to you. Besides, I don't like making friends with hypocrites and ignorant idiots who don't seem to posses any form of logic.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
All the photos and video smuggled out of Tibet and viewed on CNN (which I assume you can't see because you're probably Chinese), you say that's lies ?

Really? I have seen NOTHING from CNN. There is no video or photo for us to even say is a lie because they simply aren't any! Come on, show me a photo or video of Chinese police assaulting Tibetan monks (violently, as the news article seem to imply). Where??? What smuggled videos??? All they show are some sort of commotion and in the higher resolution versions show Tibetans beating up innocent people.

Look, my conclusions are based on evidence and logic. Not something my daddy told me (as "biggie smalls" is proof of) or something I read (not heard or seen in video or photo) off of media controlled by a corrupted government.

~Greg

Originally posted by stumason
Would YOU be happy if Carolina decided to succeed? regardless whether it is morally right or wrong, would you allow the precedent to be set that led to the break up of your country? People in Carolina are quite a different mix to say, California, after all.

North or South Carolina?

Honestly, if they wanted to break away, I wouldn't really have a say one way or the other, you certainly wouldn't find me on here spouting a bunch of pro-US government garbage, and defending our government violently cracking down on the Carolinians who wanted to break away. There are states that want to break away, I think Montana? Anyway, as long as they take Texas with them, I'd be just fine with it.


[edit on 19-3-2008 by 27jd]

reply to post by morgul


You'll get a lot farther in life if you don't try to insult people. Heck, you may even change people's viewpoints if you offer a more "logical" (as you call it) opinion.

However, when you call people names and attempt to gain higher ground than someone, nothing will change.

I guess I will forever live in ignorance. If only I listened to you about China.

Maybe you should work more on changing the governments of the world instead of attacking people without the power to do so.

"Big daddy" is akin to "big brother" and he is ever vigilant. Do not let him know I was on the internet. He'll ground me.

[edit on 3/19/2008 by biggie smalls]

I found an interesting item on youtube. It alleges that one of the riot videos was staged. Chinese propaganda?

video.google.com...

For the motto of this forum is "deny ignorance",
Let all of us keep an open mind.
Some one here say Tibet was invaded in 1950 by China,
anyone can find any old maps published before 1950 which show Tibet was
a sovereign nation, or not a part of China, or find any evidence that
any country recognized Tibet as a sovereign nation, or had embassy there before 1950.
thank you

reply to post by gs001

The Chinese government argues that Tibet became an integral part of China in the 13th century and has remained Chinese territory ever since. The Tibetan Government claims that Tibet was independent before the Chinese invasion in 1950.1 Whatever the various arguments presented, it is generally accepted among scholars that Tibet existed and acted as an independent state from 1913 to the Chinese invasion in 1949/1950.2 On the eve of the Chinese invasion, Tibet fulfilled all generally recognised criteria of statehood: a permanent population, a defined territory, a government and the capacity to enter into relations with other States.3 Prior to the invasion, the Tibetan government established diplomatic relations with a number of countries and steadfastly refused to respond to repeated Chinese overtures to 'approve', 'accept' or 'join' the Chinese Republic, which had been established in 1911.4 Chinese military intervention constituted an act of aggression against a state which at that point in time was neither part of the People's Republic of China, nor acted as such.

www.tibet.com...

I dunno about any maps, that'd probably take some searching....

Edit: found this...
www.tibettruth.com...

[edit on 19-3-2008 by 27jd]

Your saying that as if you think people have never seen CNN. I watched CNN and no way is it "Communist Nightly News" to either China or Communism

China white perhaps you have not been watching un-censored feed from CNN out of China lately about Tibet.

CNN reporters and newsreaders were discussing the blacked out footage in China.

Of Course China has CNN. By requirement of the Chinese Government it is beamed to a Chinese relay satellite for re-broadcast to China and the Government intervenes to prevent broadcast of stories they do not approve.

The CNN watched in China is not the full program content available outside China.






Likewise China controls internet content to it's own people.

You have a very selective grasp of the facts Chinawhite

[edit on 19-3-2008 by sy.gunson]