Sory, but some of you remind me of a dog who's grabbed onto the hem of a womans dress and wont let go whenever a wonderful report like this is made public.

See? everything is fine. I told ya all. Those conspiracy theorists are nuts!!

Thanks for making me laugh, i needed it.

Respectfully,

Moi.

i think the ability for pacificwind to classify anyone who doesn't bury their head in ignorance and claim the goldilocks market is destined for sustainable greatness is a " end is near type of person".

you lost all credibility with IMO most people who follow markets when you said the central banks co-ordinated injection of a 200 billion loan to investment banks was not the reason for the large day.

their is tons of uncertainty in the market. Certain ideas and phrases such as business cycle's make very complicated multi faceted economic and financial happenings fit easier into boxes that people can comprehend.

The business cycle has been a theory, some economicst swear by it, other like Michael hudson say it has never existed, just boom's and bust's.

The fed has been relying on asset bubbles in various sectors to grow the economy lately. Every single country in history that has fiat debt as a currency has been unable to sustain a high standard of living for long. History will point you to this uncomfortable truth. America having the dollar as world reserve currency has prolonged our "reign", however a central banks reliance on bubbles and now fraud ridden bubbles to grow an economy should be seen as the last desperate throws of a greedy cartel. Wall street investment banks created the "FED" in 1913. It serves them in reality. They take car of their own, namely JP morgan and Goldman Sachs, the bankers are cunning business men, they are extremely business savvy and were relentless in attempting to gain the power to control the nations money supply. They have never had the people's best intrest in mind, it just so happens that they took full advantage of the globe's business model which has the lucky american's as the big consumers (70%) of GDP, they milked us for all the debt they could, and they will leave us out to dry.

The giant rally today was due to the large loan injection giving the mortgage crap a temporary market and tons of short covering.

This is desperation and depending on how the bond market (global bond markets are larger than global stock markets btw) digests this will probably determine how much the fed can continue to cut IMO.

Excellent point...

Originally posted by 2ciewan
The ECB is also making available another $15bn

the key word is another... lest we forget that several weeks ago the ECB made an astounding $500 Billion available to It's member banks !


and the ECB's mega dose of liquidity was after the US Fed made some $80 billion available to the USA central banks 2+ weeks earlier.
~i recall that there are several threads here on ATS dealing with these previous bailouts~


bottom line, the US Fed - is still behind the ECB (together with England & Swiss) liquidity injections by some $300 Billion...
And the USA is where the whole mess started, so, this 'Acme' bandage
is inadequate for the severity of the wound (imho)


thanks

Pacific you do crack me up. The market is an indicator for the economy and Rockpuck took the words right out of my mouth. Look at August of last year when the tanking began that was an indicator that bad things were to come and the people in charge needed to act. Nothing happened so now what.

As far as CEO pay do you understand how a CEO gets paid pacific? Board members vote on a CEO pay. Now here is where the colluding/conflict of interest comes into affect most of those board members are boys with the CEO and some are even brought on cause of the CEO. I'm not even signaling out just CEOs all the execs are making way more than they should. Its part of the good ole boy network and if you dont believe that exists I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'll sell you.

I love the post gang going on here, its hilarious. Its easy apparently to classify anyone who doesn't bury their hand in the sand and buy the mass media's "OMG OMG OMG WERE ALL GOING TO DIE," approach. Of course, its much harder to actually look at the data instead of towing the media line

Because surely, everyone who doesn't think the end is nigh MUST think the economy is going great, right? Right?!

Per the usual, the market goes up and its all a a lie and time to run for the hills! Lets go! Lets all think the market is the only way to measure the economy and certainly not look at things like the GDP

Oh and my big unit, if you think everyone is colluding to keep you down, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you!

[edit on 12-3-2008 by pacificwind]

Again, has it occured to you that just because I don't believe the Great Depression is here that it in no way means I think everything is going well?

Of course not. But I guess that because I do not predict doom and gloom IT MUST mean that! Right?!

A normal business cycle recession is hardly "harder times than we have ever seen," but you are free to think whatever you want. But I guess if you watched CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, or CBS...or read the New York Times or Washington Post... where we are constantly told the end is nigh, I could understand it.

You know your amongst a pack of doomsday oracles whenever just because you don't think the end of the economy is here, it must mean your an "optimist."

[edit on 12-3-2008 by pacificwind]

Originally posted by St Udio


and the ECB's mega dose of liquidity was after the US Fed made some $80 billion available to the USA central banks 2+ weeks earlier.

Good point's Udio, but I think I have to further this conversation by saying a couple things about this IMO.

For one I think a huge part of the misconception is just that...liquidity. I dont think the problem is liquidity, but solvency. I mean, seriously we can only sell a $200,000 home for $600,000 for so long, and we can only afford to lend to people $400,000 when they can only sustain $200,000 for so long.

There is little asset based value.

Secondly, I don't think Pacificwind is ENTIRELY incorrect, although some of the knee-jerk rallying may have been from the $200b cash infusion, also let us not forget the semi-radical investors too, who have the money to play and get it into their heads that maybe the USD, the Markets have taken a bad enough beating and decide to inject their own positions into the economy...especially if they short, they will amost be guaranteed to come out as a winner because people are just LOOKING for excuses to see a positive market. By inflating artificial confidence, again, they're bound to come out on top.

Pacificwind, I think personally, you need to think a little bit though before you accuse a group of people of DOOMSAYING when you're the aggressor lol. You originally posted, it seems, in hope that someone would argue your point such that you could twist the conversation long enough to make any subsquent response to your post seem argumentative. That's not nice, stop it

So when is the next print out of money is coming out, obviously like many already pointed out this was going to be short lived.

So I want Barnanke to bail me out with 1 million dollar.

[edit on 12-3-2008 by marg6043]

Boy 200 Billion just doesn't buy what it used to. The Dow has already sobered up and resumed its slide. The negative effects of monetizing debt are quite apparent on the other hand. Euro=$1.55 Oil=$110. Inflation, coming to a shopping list near YOU!