Many say that the bible is full of predictions that have come true, and is another way to prove the divinity of this book.

Can we list and discuss these prophecies?

Did these prophecies come true because of God, or because they were laid out so man would make them come true, to prove their faith?

here is a site that lists a bunch of them for you

www.parentalguide.com/Documents/Bible_Desk/proof_bible_true.htm

I found this one to be interesting as well

www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html

Originally posted by LDragonFire
So in no way did this event have to do with Judeo Christian beliefs by the powers that be {America and Europe} attempting to fulfill biblical prophecy, by taking advantage of the holocaust in Europe?

Some speculate this prophecy was purposely fulfilled but there is one teeny tiny problem. Israel's rebirth took place to the day it was prophesied to be fulfilled. Many accusations then come flying forth that it was done on purpose but they forget two things:

1) The math was not realized until about a decade ago- not prior to 1948.

2). There were about a dozen prophecies that mentioned the specific circumstances that would surround Israel's rebirth. It was not a vague prophecy that Israel would simply exist at the end times. It was multiple things that had to occur.

Here are a few:

A). Be reborn in one day (this happened).
B). The Jew would slowly trickle in (this happened).
C). They would immediately be surrounded by enemies (this happened).
D). The precise names of the countries who would be their enemies were given by name (this coalition now exists).
E). They would regain Jerusalem (this happened).
F). There would be no king (this happened- and a prophecy stating a country without a king was preposterous in the age of monarchies when this prophecy was given).
G). The land would blossom (since its occupation the desert has become a type of oasis in the ME).
H). There would be attempts to divide the land (this is happening with the Palestine issue).

The list goes on.

Remember, the Bible is over 25% prophecy. And I am sure you know how big the Bible is! lol There is much, much prophecy that has been proven to be fulfilled throughout history.

Daniel, for example, prophesied the timing of Jesus to the very year. His prophecies concerning the succession of world empires and the rise of certain kings (including Alexander the Great) are so impressive the skeptic's only option is to claim a late of authorship. But due to this, the dating of Daniel is now one of the most proven out of all the Bible books.

We are living in a time where prophecy is being fulfilled every day. 9-11 was prophecy. It was the first thunder of the sixth seal of revelation which started the "labor pains" of revelation. Natural disasters, war, pestilence, famine, and many other things of revelation are being fulfilled as "labor pains" right now. Only when the 7th seal is opened will the labor pains turn to birth pains. The final 3 1/2 years is going to be here soon. Start counting months, or weeks. Not years anymore. World War 3 is upon us. Just wait til the great world stock market crash and the fight for oil against Iran. America is doomed and don't think we'll get a new president. Bush was our worst.... (next to Carter) and he will be our last. Our wars on terror have created a domino effect in the way other nations see us. Instead of leading the fight for democracy by example through our own prosperity, we are leading by preemtive war which is what the dictators and communists did to spread their way of governing. The death of Saddam Hussein was predicted in the bible as the "King of New Babylon". The first seal of revelation was opened on Dec. 17, 1994 and the sixth seal was opened on Sept. 11, 2001. Once the 7 thunders of the sixth seal are completed, the seventh seal will be opened which will trigger the final 1260 days of man's reign on earth. Another interesting prophecy is the one that involves the United States and Britain in the bible. Of the original 12 tribes of Israel, one known as Joseph was divided into two sub-tribes. Joseph was the son of Jacob that was exiled into Egypt by his brothers. Since his brothers decieved him, God gave him great authority in Egypt as chief deputy leaving him in charge of the food supply during a time of epidemics and plagues. His brothers literally begged him for some food to stay alive. They were at the mercy of the one person they abandoned. Because of his kindness, Joseph ended up with a separate covenant with God, apart fromt the other 11 tribes. Through Joseph's sons, Manassah & Ephairim, God stated that these two sub-tribes would gain prosperity, wealth and power before the end times. One would be a nation consting of many different nations (British Empire) and one would be one GREAT nation of power and wealth (U.S.A.). The British Empire was spread out all over the globe and through this empire, we ended up with our english speaking countries. These nations of english speaking people are the descendants of Joseph, Jacob's son. Not many bible scholars will tell you that but all it takes is some research.

Egypt would never be a powerful force in the world again.

Fall of the Roman Empire and it's rebirth (European Union is a possible candidate, especially if we get a Mediterranean Union linked to the EU).

Is there a way to separate the predictions that came true on their own from the ones that are "self-fulfilling" prophecies pushed forward and made to happen by people who wanted to see the prophecy fulfilled?

The whole Israel prophecy coming "true," for instance, could arguably have been engineered by influential Jewish folk at the end of the war specifically so that it could fulfill the prophecy.

Claiming fulfillment of a prophecy where you had to do all the heavy lifting seems a lot like thanking Santa Claus for bringing you all the presents on your Christmas list after you went out and bought them yourself.

Originally posted by Locoman8
We are living in a time where prophecy is being fulfilled every day. ... Not many bible scholars will tell you that but all it takes is some research.

There are certainly a lot of people who are able to play fast a loose with some vague Biblical passage and squeeze some kind of rough parallel to current events out of them. Every time the news channels report a kid falling down a well, a half dozen "bible scholars" pop up with a verse they think corresponds to it.

I think it does a couple of things. For a believer, I can't imagine that it doesn't directly cheapen, devalue and minimalize any kind of true word of God. There are all kinds of admonisions in the Bible about doing this, but it doesn't seem to stop people. Another thing it does is suggest that the actions and works of God are unclear, or at least clear only to those special few chosen to decypher them. That smacks me as quite elitist, to suggest that the word of God is not clear and available to all, without a lot of creative interpretation.

So if a person is a real believer, I would caution them about claiming special, superior knowledge and understanding of God's word. From what I've read, God isn't too keen on false prophets.

Originally posted by Nohup
Is there a way to separate the predictions that came true on their own from the ones that are "self-fulfilling" prophecies...

Is there a difference?

The fact that is was prophesied that the Israelites would still exist after thousands of year yet be scattered among the nations is enough. Without that, there could be no rebirth of the nation of Israel.

All things serve the Lord; those men who fulfilled the prophesy are not exempt.

The problem with the predictions of the bible are that they were written down after the facts as the bible was compiled most of the predictions were already fulfilled.

Kind of hard to separate the facts from the fictions or may I say reality from this.

After all this predictions are the predictions of the Israelis within their history.

Sorry to say that scattered are many nations inhabitants around the earth and they are no limited to Israel.

Originally posted by marg6043
The problem with the predictions of the bible are that they were written down after the facts as the bible was compiled most of the predictions were already fulfilled.

Examples, please? Approximately 100 prophecies have bee fulfilled within the last 60 years. The prophecies were meant for the end times. Unless you believe the Bible was written a few decades ago, this makes no sense.

So, we know the end time prophecies were written before the time.
The Messianic prophecies were written before the time.
We have no reason to believe the OT prophets were written later than believed.

The most controversial is Daniel. The prophecies and fulfillment were so specific that the critic's only defense is to claim a later date for Daniel. Due to the widespread criticism the timing of Daniel's authorship has now become one of the most solid out of all Biblical books.

People who claim Biblical prophecies were nothing more than postdiction or self fulfilled are obviously reaching and do not know their facts.

Carry on.

Originally posted by AshleyD
People who claim Biblical prophecies were nothing more than postdiction or self fulfilled are obviously reaching and do not know their facts.

Carry on.

this is good example of blind faith never argue with blind faith because is going to take you no where.

I posted my views and that is the end of it and I will keep posting as I see fit.

Originally posted by Locoman8
We are living in a time where prophecy is being fulfilled every day. 9-11 was prophecy. It was the first thunder of the sixth seal of revelation which started the "labor pains" of revelation. Natural disasters, war, pestilence, famine, and many other things of revelation are being fulfilled as "labor pains" right now. Only when the 7th seal is opened will the labor pains turn to birth pains. The final 3 1/2 years is going to be here soon. Start counting months, or weeks. Not years anymore. World War 3 is upon us. Just wait til the great world stock market crash and the fight for oil against Iran. America is doomed and don't think we'll get a new president. Bush was our worst.... (next to Carter) and he will be our last. Our wars on terror have created a domino effect in the way other nations see us. Instead of leading the fight for democracy by example through our own prosperity, we are leading by preemtive war which is what the dictators and communists did to spread their way of governing. The death of Saddam Hussein was predicted in the bible as the "King of New Babylon". The first seal of revelation was opened on Dec. 17, 1994 and the sixth seal was opened on Sept. 11, 2001. Once the 7 thunders of the sixth seal are completed, the seventh seal will be opened which will trigger the final 1260 days of man's reign on earth. Another interesting prophecy is the one that involves the United States and Britain in the bible. Of the original 12 tribes of Israel, one known as Joseph was divided into two sub-tribes. Joseph was the son of Jacob that was exiled into Egypt by his brothers. Since his brothers decieved him, God gave him great authority in Egypt as chief deputy leaving him in charge of the food supply during a time of epidemics and plagues. His brothers literally begged him for some food to stay alive. They were at the mercy of the one person they abandoned. Because of his kindness, Joseph ended up with a separate covenant with God, apart fromt the other 11 tribes. Through Joseph's sons, Manassah & Ephairim, God stated that these two sub-tribes would gain prosperity, wealth and power before the end times. One would be a nation consting of many different nations (British Empire) and one would be one GREAT nation of power and wealth (U.S.A.). The British Empire was spread out all over the globe and through this empire, we ended up with our english speaking countries. These nations of english speaking people are the descendants of Joseph, Jacob's son. Not many bible scholars will tell you that but all it takes is some research.

Is this a prophecy or are you simply reverbing what you've seen and heard? If so what source can you provide to back up some of what you talk about... I've look at the links thus far and your comment is very interesting... I'm simply interested in where you found your information or how you obtained it...

Many of the Biblical prophecies mention events that have occurred several times in antiquity and even occurr today. For example, nobody would call me a psychic if I accurately "predicted" a military coup to occur somewhere in Latin America in the next 10 years or if I accurately "predicted" that a hurricane would hit the Carribean or Gulf of Mexico.

Similarly, there has been a continual repition of certain events in the Middle East like wars involving major powers like Egypt, Persia (Iran) or Babylon (Iraq.) Israel, being small nation located amongst these major powers has continually been in conflict with them.

Originally posted by marg6043
this is good example of blind faith never argue with blind faith because is going to take you no where.

The 'blind faith' accusation might work and be true for others but not me.

'Blind faith' would be more along the lines of having all or most of the evidence concerning the dating of prophetic works postdating the events but believing the works precededed them anyways. In other words, ignoring the contrary evidence.

Investigation and skepticism, on the other hand, is not taking anyone's word for it but looking into the facts for oneself and then reaching a conclusion. After doing such, it would be sheer ignorance to claim 'postdiction' due to the fact history proves the works were written before the fact.

Sorry to spoil the party but, yes. Biblical prophecy is the real deal.