Can we list bible predictions that have come true?

reply to post by FlyersFan



I agree but that list is worth of the threat all by itlself Flyers

I think the old testament talks about the trumpet sounding the beginning of the apocalypse. Many people now have tinitus- a ringing in the ears.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
How about the ones that DID NOT come true?
There are plenty of those - especially about the second coming.

Can you give me some specific examples? And please don't use the 'This generation will not pass...' argument because Luke and Matthew both differentiate between what 'this generation' is. I've never been shown a biblical prophecy that was supposedly unfulfilled (therefore, false) where it didn't come down to the person's fault for misunderstanding something.

Originally posted by marg6043
Actually historically speaking and the references of 66:8 and the creation of the Jewish state, this proves one thing.

Marg, it doesn't 'prove' anything as much as you would like it to. However, let's say for argument's sake Israel, America, Turkey, and Britain were all in cahoots to make Israel a nation again. Do you really think the Arab nations would give a hoot about fulfilling Biblical prophecy concerning the rebirth of Israel? Do you really think Muslims are purposely trying to fulfill Biblical prophecy? No. They are more interested in fulfilling their Islamic prophecies that are often diametrically opposed to Jewish and Christian prophecies.

Do you really think they formed their collation that Ezekiel prophesied by name just to help the Christians out? Are they attempting to divide Israel and Jerusalem into an Israeli/Palestinian state just to help us fulfill some prophecies about the land being divided? Did they lose the Six Day War of 1967 on purpose just to hand Jerusalem over to Israel because they were more interested in fulfilling our prophecies than our own?

And what else are they thinking? That by being such little darling dears for God that by getting everything ready that He will move His time clock forward? Or worse, that a God that doesn't even exist is going to suddenly poof into existence because thousands of people consorted with each other to fulfill prophecies?

It isn't logical.

reply to post by AshleyD


Is just a common understanding of the politics/religion playing a big role in the manipulations of events, wars and the future in the world.

No need to step any farther than the occupation of in the middle east by our nation.

Just historical facts actually.

May be no logical to you but is very logical to people that see the angle of politics and religion when mix together for agendas.



[edit on 17-3-2008 by marg6043]

reply to post by AshleyD


Hi AshleyD, I made a post on this thread earlier that was actually directed to you, but unfortunately I stupidly just pressed "Post Reply" instead of "Reply To" so it wasn't clear that it was actually for you.

I'm just pointing it out now because I would really like to hear your input on it

I just do what I'm told!

Originally posted by Toy_soldier
Aren't these "prophecies" all open to interpretation? And if over 100 prophecies really have been fulfilled in the past 60 years, would you be able tell us some prophecies that are coming up soon? If so many have been fulfilled lately, surely they wouldn't be stopping now?

Right now we're 'in the middle' so to speak of end time prophecy. The things that should be occurring next in no particular order:

1) Israel will destroy Damascus.
2) Turkey will eventually join the Arab Union.
3) The Muslim Coalition led by Russia (the alliance already exists as prophesied with the exception of Turkey mentioned above) will attack Israel/Jerusalem.
4) The Jewish temple will be rebuilt.
5) There will be a seven year peace treaty.
6) The security fence in Israel will be taken down.

Those are just a few things. The book Are We Living In The End Times explains everything that has been fulfilled in our time and what is still to come. It's a pretty good read.

Or do we have to wait for a certain event to happen, and THEN it will be somehow tied in with a prophecy that was made in the bible?

No. Prophecy watchers have our eyes peeled and know what to expect. As I mentioned before, there's a few things we don't know yet like the meaning of the significance of 666.

Isn't it possible that these prophecies were translated (or translated "again") after an event happened in order to make them tie in with the event?

It really depends on what prophecies you want to review. The end time prophecies, no. The translations are done and if someone tried to change them now we'd all be crying, 'Foul!' The same is true with the OT prophecies. There's about two or three Messianic prophecies that come under suspicion by Orthodox Jews although they have been thoroughly explained by Christian apologists.

Like with Israels Rebirth in 1948. The math wasn't realised until some time after the fact. So, we already had the "answer" to the math, all we needed was someone to go through the bible, interperate it in their own special way so that it would meet that year.

First of all, I just want to take a moment to point out the double standard. Nothing against you whatsoever. But you see, the accusations in this thread have been Israel was purposely set up to the day due to the prophecy. Therefore, it was self fulfilled. After proving this was not so and it was only discovered a decade ago, we get accused of 'realizing the math after the fact.' It's a game we cannot win.

When I was first presented with this fulfillment, I scrutinized it with a fine tooth comb looking for flaws like I do most things. It would make me look like an idiot to spout of something I took on blind faith if it is later proven erroneous. I linked to the math explanation earlier from one of my comments on another thread after getting a request for it on this thread. The math is pretty solid. But it goes back to putting us in a place where we cannot win. If it was known before the fact, we're accused of making it come true. If it is realized after the fact, we fall under suspicion of making the math fit. lol

All the prophecies I have read have been so very, very vague that it would be nearly impossible to connect them with just one event. Or any, really.

Not sure if you checked out the links above I gave to Rizla. The author of that website goes into such depth it's almost impossible to accuse Biblical prophecy of vagueness. Especially when scholars know in advance of what to look for. A few examples:

Prophecy scholars had been saying for centuries Israel had to exist in the end time, The Roman Empire would be revived (European Union), Babylon would resurface (it is now being rebuilt thanks to the building projects started by Saddam), The Jewish Temple would have to be rebuilt (now the temple institute exits), etc. They were all laughed at but they knew what the prophecies were saying before the fact. Etc., etc.

Revelations did not come from Jesus Christ[./quote]

Revelation 1
1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 5:2

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father. Matthew 24:36
Biblegateway.com

Who am I to argue with God, or even better who are you people to speak for him!

I'm speaking for him? more like this is in teh bible. Did i give a date for when Christ will return? NO! But I did say that we should be aware of the signs showing that Christ coming would be very near.

In fact, in matthew 24 if you bothered to continue reading it goes on to say to WATCH AND BE READY.

Matthew 24:42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh

Christ HIMSELF said that when you start to see these things coming to pass, that the end would be near!

Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

There have always been men of God saying things that turned out to be untrue, are you just calling them pharisees, because it would be more difficult to hold on to your faith if they were just wrong?

what does that have anything to do with what i said? STRAWMAN.

Many have come in Jesus's name, they all have claimed we are living in the end times, some have even givin dates of Christs return, only to be proven Wrong, they all have died without witnessing the return of the Messiah [unless there still living].

I'm not meaning to attack anyone, I just want to understand, and to gain knowledge with this discussion. The thing I Don't want to do is to blindly follow.

Doesn't negate the fact that the bible gives us enough ample proof of what the time will be like prior to Christ 2nd Coming. Just because people put up dates and such and are proven false prophets (Something Christ said would happen) shouldn't deter us as his children from reading the Word, studying it, and prepare for His 2nd coming.



[edit on 17-3-2008 by Shortness]

I still would like to hear what naysayers have to say about this.

Matthew 24:14 (Whole Chapter)
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

This text is simple enough. No cryptic, symbolic stuff either. And it also reinforces what i said, that we may not know the day or the hour, but we can know what the world would be like prior to the second coming.



[edit on 18-3-2008 by Shortness]

Originally posted by marg6043
One interesting thing I found out when reading religious related threads in this particular forum is how anytime you challenge the integrity of the bible they familiar prophecy fulfillment comes to prove the validity of any bible related issue.

When a poster with other views of the bible brings the response of bible no been inspired by God but rather by men in religious agenda, the response is that the prophecies has been fulfilled.

Actually for the so call fulfillment is actually part of the imagination of the writers that redacted the bible and the new testament.

Many of the prophecies were nothing but distortions of the original Old testament.

But as we don't have the original writers to refute or agree with any of these we most take as a fact that is all true and factual.

Actually the New testament have plenty of claims of prophecy fulfillment that the old testament can not back up.

As every thing this prophecy fulfillment is actually a weak argument.

I need more to believe, than just the opinion and interpretations of those that believe that everything in the Bible is of divine intervention and for that it most be true, as long as is backed by a long rhetoric of bible verses and examples.

Sorry but it doesn't take the fact that is a weak argument.

Like I posted earlier is plenty of Christian sites that will list many fulfilled prophecies, many can be challenged and many others just like anything in life are occurrences by chance.

Of course it would be a weak argument if you believe that bible prophecy is just used to scare people in line.

There would be no way to convince you if the only thing we have to convince you with is the same thing that you resent.

[edit on 18-3-2008 by Shortness]

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by AshleyD

 

Is just a common understanding of the politics/religion playing a big role in the manipulations of events, wars and the future in the world.

No need to step any farther than the occupation of in the middle east by our nation.

Just historical facts actually.

May be no logical to you but is very logical to people that see the angle of politics and religion when mix together for agendas.



[edit on 17-3-2008 by marg6043]

Completely agree. I mean, It was religious people who persecuted Christ right?

reply to post by AshleyD


So when was Damascus destroyed (Isaiah 17:1)?
Remember that time the Nile ran dry? (Isaiah 19:5)
Did you know uncircumcised people will never be allowed to enter Jerusalem? Maybe the Crusaders should have read up on their Isaiah 52...
Ezekiel tells us the Ammoniteswill be forgotten by history. This will prove to be difficult, as they are recorded in the bible and uncovered by archaologists. (Ezekiel 21:28-32)
He also, of course, tells us that Israel will return home and be at peace with hteir neighbors and live in safety.

Oh, my the way. Might want to re-do your research on the Israel prophecies, and leave out your much-loved anti-Arab hate sites. Israel did not "make the desert bloom" - in fact, those deserts are still there, and still very desert-y. However the UN partition plan was to five the Jews every scrap of farmland and watershed in the territory, and shove th Arabs into those same deserts. Palestine was already blooming - and had been in bloom since long before Abraham hobbled out of Ur - when Israel was formed. Nice propaganda, though

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
So when was Damascus destroyed (Isaiah 17:1)?

I already mentioned this HERE (See point #1). It's a future fulfillment for the end times- not a prophecy that was supposed to be fulfilled in the past. See: HERE as well.

Remember that time the Nile ran dry? (Isaiah 19:5)

Again, end times. Not supposed to be fulfilled in the past. This event is yet future. Same thing with the Euphrates in Revelation (just thought I'd save you some time). Note: 'In that day...'

Did you know uncircumcised people will never be allowed to enter Jerusalem? Maybe the Crusaders should have read up on their Isaiah 52...

Same thing. End times. Even Jesus prophesied Jerusalem would be 'trampled by the gentiles' [uncircumcised] until 'the time of Gentiles' ends. Even the other OT prophets after Isaiah spoke of a second regathering at the end times, therefore after the return from the Babylonian exile. Therefore, you would need to have had a second dispersal. As in, the one that did occur in 70 A.D. Hint, hint. And a second regathering. As in, the one that did occur in 1948. Hint, hint.

He also, of course, tells us that Israel will return home and be at peace with hteir neighbors and live in safety.

I've explained this in another thread and could have sworn you were involved in that thread. Anyways, you have to remember there were two returns. One from the Babylonian exile and one from Roman exile. It is very distinct: the first return would be peaceful (this happened) and the second return would surrounded with hostilities (this is happening now).

The Jews are not promised 100% peace until the Messianic reign. Not to mention, they would most indeed be surrounded by enemies, specifically named, at the end times. See: HERE and HERE.

We are given a very specific timeline. Israel will return amidst violence (fulfilled), will be surrounded by enemies (fulfilled), then be presented with a false peace (upcoming-Antichrist), then all hell breaks loose (upcoming-tribulation), and then real peace (upcoming-Messianic Age).

And so on, and so on.

Nice propaganda, though

It's good to be loved.

[edit on 3/18/2008 by AshleyD]

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[edit on 18-3-2008 by johnb1]

Originally posted by AshleyD
don't use the 'This generation will not pass...' argument because Luke and Matthew both differentiate between what 'this generation' is.

OF COURSE I'm going to bring up 'this generation will not pass ...' It's blaringly obvious. It was wrong. Period.

As far as Matthew and Luke attempting to whitewash the error with theo-babble ... It doesn't fly. The bible is full of contradictions and errors. Each gospel ... each book ... they all contradict each other. Heck ... Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 get the party off to a good start. If the bible is absolute truth then I guess the world and humans were started twice?

www.infidels.org...

Some of Matthews inconsistencies -

Quote from Farrell Till at infidels.com

Matthew's credibility is also impeached by major discrepancies between his gospel account and the three others:

Matthew said that Jesus was born in the reign of Herod, who died in 4 B. C. (2:1). Luke said that Jesus was born during the Syrian governorship of Quirinius, who was not even appointed to the position until 6 A. D. (2:2).

Matthew indicated that the centurion went in person to ask Jesus to heal his servant who was near death (8:5-13). Luke said that the centurion stayed at home and sent elders of the Jews to ask Jesus to heal the servant (7:2-10).

Matthew said that Jairus reported his daughter dead when asking Jesus to go heal her (9:18-25). Both Mark (5:23) and Luke (8:42) said that she was still alive but dying.

Matthew said that Jesus healed two blind men as he was going out of Jerico (20:29). Both Mark (10:46) and Luke (18:35) indicated there was only one man who was healed, and Luke said that it was done when Jesus "drew nigh unto Jerico."

Matthew said that Jesus, in sending his disciples out to preach, told them to take no necessities with them, not even a staff (10:10). Mark, however, said that Jesus allowed them to take staffs (6:8).

Matthew said that the women present at Jesus's crucifixion beheld him "from afar" (27:55-56). John disagreed in some particulars with the identities of these women and said that they stood "by the cross of Jesus" (19:25).

Matthew disagreed with all the other writers in many details concerning the resurrection: who exactly went to the tomb, the time that they went, what they found upon their arrival, when and where Jesus was first seen after his revivification, and a host of other conflicting details.

[edit on 3/18/2008 by FlyersFan]

reply to post by FlyersFan

I'm sure AshleyD, or someone will answer your question, but, it is going to take me awhile.
I've got to go on some errands. Thank you for your patience!

63But Jesus remained silent.
The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
64"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
Matthew 26:63-64

His second coming would be for all present to see, in their lifetime, did this occur?

More about his return being in their lifetimes:

36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
Matthew 23:36

34I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Mathew 24:34
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Matthew 24:29-35
30I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 31Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Mark 13:30-31
27I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."
Luke 9:27

Biblegateway.com
Fellow ATS members, your using the Bible to show us that biblical prophecy about the end times or the second coming are occurring now, two thousand years after Christ, yet his own words show us that your incorrect.

Who is wrong?

Now are there any prophecy that has occured from the bible that doesn't require faith to see?

reply to post by AshleyD


So basically, every prophecy that is false in the bible, isn't false, but will happen "in the future"?

Sorta like how the "day of the lord" has been, what's the word, nigh, for 2,500 years now.

22Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me."
John 21:22

Jesus implies that he will return in John’s lifetime.

Again Jesus reaffirms what is to come, but most importantly when:

25"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."
29He told them this parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.
32"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Luke 21:25-33
23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Matthew 10:23

Almost the same thing he says in Mathew.
I have used Jesus own words, I have not used them out of context, and the words he speaks does not leave room for intepetation. He had a point to make and he made it.

Lets now look at what one of his disciples thought about the second coming.

Jonh

1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
Revelations 1:1-3
11I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.
Revelations 3:11
7"Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book."
Revelations 22:7
12"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.
Revelations 22:12
20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
Revelations 22:20
18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
1 John 2:18
3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
1 John 4:3

Biblegateway.com
Ok the word soon is used over and over to describe when the second coming would occur, 2000 years after the fact is not soon.

The generation which sees all the end-times Prophetic cataclysms begin will by no means pass away before His return. This has been found confusing by some . . .

www.belowtopsecret.com...

2 Timothy 4:1-4

1In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge:

2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.

3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

[edit on 18-3-2008 by johnb1]