Christians...how do you justify all of this?

i can't believe ppl believing in anything other that the true entity that rules our life..Her name is "MOTHER NATURE". Anyone going against her rules by poluting the planet, creating things made syntheticly is not being true to her. She put all the things on the planet to provide us a healthy life and mankind trying to play g-d has made everything that is harmful to her ....

There is one commandment that i believe in and that is "honor thy mother(earth) and father (time) By ignoring either is against the rules...

according to the first part of the bible the all the things on earth was put here for everyone so anyone saying something was thiers is lying and there for it isn't considered theft.

As for the new testament the first commandment should tell u that it is false IMO "Thou shalt have no other god but me"...why would he send someone to take his place if we are supposed to worship him only and why would he send someone to annul the commandments if they were that important ...Would the governments make a law then say don't worry we won't prosicute u if u break them...not

As i pointed out in another thread ,according to the bible G-d told adam and eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge and only eat from the tree of everlasting life..IMO that reads u should not learn(schooling) but go by instinct which would be MOTHER NATURES true way.

another part of the old testament says G-d brought us out of slavery but we still allow the government to control us(slavery).

I could point out all kinds of things like this in the bible.Remember the bible was interpeted by man so they could have misinterpeted any part of it.(to err is human)

Originally posted by Freakaloin
"i think religious moderates are even worse than the fundies."

Interesting statement.

If we look at someone who is moderate...and willing to die for his/her belief would that make that belief fundamental?

Please follow my line of reasoning.

SO, whoever coined the phrase "Love God with your whole heart and love your neighbor as yourself" and then dies for that belief because it heavily contrasted the traditional view of the 10 commandments...would that belief then be fundamental? Or is it moderate because of the “watered down “interpretation?

Then…if somebody fled a dogma based civilization to a new world in order to establish a society based upon the above phrase “love your neighbor” and got together with some other people with the same ideas and they came up with “All men are created equal and the pursuit of happiness…etc” Would that line of reasoning be fundamental or moderate?

How do you define moderate? Someone who will not kill or die for a belief? Does that extreme make it fundamental? Is conviction or the willingness to die for an idea make the idea fundamental and thereby justified because it transcends a moderate view?

If a view is moderate does it then become less in your view? Or are all views valid? If all views are valid does that entail an early form of Democracy? Is Democracy moderate since it takes into account all views? Is Democracy less valid because it becomes “moderate” because it is “open” toward many views?

Is Democracy in a religious organization then less valid because it is more open then a fundamentalist view of society?

Sorry for the brevity and simplified argument. I am pressed for time.

reply to post by Freakaloin


Ok, lets stone people to death, lets crucify people in public, lets go burn anything that isn't Christian..Because that's a world I wanna live in.

reply to post by BlackOps719


Ok, here you go posterboy in denial BlackOps....
its not my concern what you think about Christianity. Actually, I don't really care what you think much about anything. But I DO have an opinion.
I'm not a wizard of the Bible. Sure, I remember some stories from going to church and stuff, but as far as studying the Bible??? Not a wizard at all. I'm not even sure I can defend the view of Christianity or even answer you question correctly about Christianity. The murders and stoning and sacrafices as you said in your first post i believe, are a part of the old testament. What I know of the old testament, it is full of those dark things.....But this is prior to Christ. Christianity doesn't condone what happened, its against it. God does not mess with man's free will to do whatever he wants. There's a list of guidelines to live by as Christians (and not just Christians, but everyone should).
Anyway, studying the Bible is really a rude awakening. The prophecy in Daniel (old testament) actually foretells what's going to happen in history.
I guess I could go in depth, but don't really feel like typing alot.

reply to post by themillersdaughter

there is a conspiracy angle involved here.
the apostolic church those with the label nazerenes later called "christians" as a derogatory term, kept the 7th day shabbat,the holydays of leviticus23 ,eating of clean meats leviticus 11,and the 10 commandments of exodus 20.
approximately 110 ce those that fell away from the apostolic assembly also changed from sabbath observance to sunday keeping and easter instead of passover in order to save their butts from being mistaken as jews and thus end up being martyred with the former by the roman legions----not appreciating that doing this also cut them off from being any longer Messiah's disciples but rather they turned themselves into apostates deceiving themselves and others that they were still a part of messiah's flock and then eventually turning on them as per the inquisitions of history record.

Originally posted by Freakaloin

Originally posted by jon1

I know that God is as real as you are.

first of all...no you don't. secondly, why do you think this?

First of all... YES i do and secondly, i don't feel the need to justify my God to you, and have him ridiculed even more.

I have explained the reasons for my faith many times on ATS and at the end of the day it will change nothing.
Your way of thinking seems set in stone and the only way i would discuss this with you is face to face.

I don't intend to be a couple of hours entertainment for those here on ATS. I have been there , done that.

John

reply to post by beach2197


Well.... I can't really see what it is that I am supposedly in denial about or what that has to do with this thread, but if you say so


And you know what they say about opinions....well...we don't need to go there do we. Thanks for sharing!!

Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by Elisha4Yah

 

I could not agree with you more. To every Christian posting I would
like to remind you of something very important. You cannot win someone
to Christ. Nor can you make someone belive the way you do. The only thing we are called by Christ to do is witness. Christ calls people to Himself
we can only hope to be the vessel He uses. None of us should be on the defense about our beliefs. We need to let our actions as well as our words
be our greatest testimony for why we believe.

We also need to remember not to get so complicated when trying to explain our position. To continue to quote scripture without explaining
how that would apply to someones life now, is usually lost on most people.
It also seems so very condesending.

I absolutely disagree. Although it isn't my win, we can and do move people into the word and assist eachother for that matter in understanding and building faith. I cannot say where I would be today if someone had not planted and another watered, I'm grateful that someone 'bothered' or cared enough to assist me in my walk into salvation.


What I am not getting is the thread trap here. Is it bait to trap a believer/Christian into 'justifying' something that is absolutely NOT even our place to justify or is there sincerity and an honest desire for truth, I have yet to hear from the OP on anything I've provided.

I use scripture and also explain, you almost have to here, especially in this case. You're right about not getting too complicated, I don't mean to, but whether I am basic 1-2-3 or in depth it is still going to 'appear' as condescending to certain folks.

I notice that when I exalt the Word of God in any way, people might feel that I am egotistical, judgmental, or condescending, but the thing is, it isn't me, it is Him, the Word of God, the Lamb, He can make you feel very small, I know this because I've been there, in 'real life'. He exalts those who humble themselves and humbles those who exalt themselves, I am absolutely powerless to make a certain person feel that way.

But I thank you for your advice!! And I will be more careful with my own words.

And now for some pictorial evidence that I think of as the "Grey connection"


These are primarily rulers of various empires or dynasties

This one, however, is an early, pre-dynastic vase from Abydos, Egypt

I believe it depicts greys, humans and some sort of reptilian hybrid (the tall one).

this one is from Enki's city of Eridu. Enki was one of the Bene Elohim, also known as the Anunnaki. He appears to be the biblical Serpent (Satan, etc):



Source:
oi.uchicago.edu...

Notice he has all the features: He looks like a human, a grey and a serpent (he even has a fang sticking out of his mouth) and six fingers on his hands






And here's the series of long-heads (most of these are NOT THE RESULT OF HEAD BINDING OR DISEASE OR INBREEDING. THEY ARE THE RESULT OF INTERBREEDING (NOT INBREEDING. INBREEDING PRODUCES MICROENCAPHLIC SKULLS NOT ELONGATED).

They are all royals from various ancient cultures

Princess Meritaten


Source
ngm.nationalgeographic.com...

Tutankhamen



The Akhenaton Family


Seti I


Sitamon (daughter of Amose)


Djedptahiufankh - son of Ramesses


Thutmosis III


For example.



[edit on 7-3-2008 by undo]

reply to post by jon1


just how exactly do you know that god is real? Probably faith once again

Another christian who can not justify their beliefs

Oh boy....another poor soul...

Who do you think put mother nature here? What. you think plants just sprouted up all by themselves huh....they all just decided that "Hey, we feel we need some Sun and Water to help us live"...then all kinds of plants started sprouting up everywhere....Then all the millions of different species of animals just jumped out of the ground (or water, the case in which YOU probably believe) and started doing whatever the heck it is that they do? Come on man, get with the program.
Oh, and you believe in one commandment??? So, i guess you could just go ahead and kill someone whenever you felt like it?....and you probably wouldn't even feel bad cuz you're "HONORING MOTHER EARTH AND FATHER TIME"....
And the Bible was WRITTEN by man thru God, NOT interpreted. The Bible interprets itself...
so, go ahead, as you say....Point more things out in the Bible...i'll trump them

reply to post by beach2197




It makes about as much sense as some invisible man living in the sky who magically makes the trees grow and the sun shine.

One argument is about as valid as the other.

Jesus pointed out that Moses had provided some laws due to the hardness of their hearts, an example given was the divorce law. In other words, some of the laws of Moses were just that, Laws of Moses, not of God. So you end up seeing odd things like the silly laws you find on the books today: you can spit on the sidewalk but not on a bug on a sidewalk or you can't spit on a sidewalk but you can spit on a street or you can't ride a horse backwards into town (lol), etc. We assume that they were all from God because the jews trusted Moses implicitly, just like some people trust the Popes implicitly or Confuscius or the neighborhood shaman, etc.



[edit on 7-3-2008 by undo]

beach is seeing things in a perfect world scenario.

It's similar to a puddle. If a puddle got consciousness, it would see its existence as perfectly matching the pothole it resides in. It would say that this pothole was made just for him, because he fits perfectly inside it, to the exact shape.

In reality, its a cause and effect. the puddle exists there in the way it does because the pothole was there. The pothole isn't there because the puddle is.

reply to post by Merigold


Thank's Merigold,
You said you enjoyed everyone's posts, so, I will asume that mine are included.
I believe in God but I can not say that means, neccisarily, that I have much Faith.
I could say that I envy peope who have faith, without having real evedence of God's existance.
I believe because I accept, as real, things that have happened in my life that have no explaination, other than they are the works of a more powerful being who looks over the world.

It is natural for inteligent people to experament with different concepts of God.
I have gone through a lifelong evolution of thought on the nature of God.
It should give you a feeling of peace and security to know that you do have a path to salvation that is offered to us all.

It is very common to not get answers to question on religion.
The people who you would think are qualified to give the answers are tied up in a system that will take their pensions away if they go against the teachings of whatever church organization is giving them a paycheck.

As for being saved, in the Christian salvation system, you need to have a shotgun aproach. Kind of like the debate on the Rapture. If you are in the mood for feeling good and cozy, believe that God will take you out of the world before things get tense. If you are feeling like you want to on the safe side, think about what you need to do in preperation for hard times, in case your preacher is wrong about the timing of the rapture.....You can think that the bible says the whole world is saved. But to be on the safe side, think about what would be the minimum requirement to get through the gates of heaven......My personal oppinion is that the worse thing you can do is to be in open rebelion against God. So, if you backslide, but you actualy had a desire to be good, that is one thing..............To just say, "To hell with all that crap! I am just going to do whatever I want, and I do not carew what God thinks about it." .........well, you just joined the ranks of Satan.
No man on this earth can be your judge or decide if you are saved or not.

It seems to be popular to say,"What would Jesus do?". Jesus was a very special person and had a mission to fulfill. No one (well almost no one) would be following his example. If they did, we would have no one getting married or having children, no one would have a home and no one would visit their relatives. Every one would be wandering around preaching, dressed in old, thrown-out clothes.
When I lived in California my friend was letting a group of people stay at his house. They were the Christ Brothers. They went around in long hair and beards and wore tunics of sack cloth. They had no home. I asked my friend what they did. He told me they did own some stuff that they kept in a rented storage unit. So, my point is, more bad psuedo- theology. Kind of like the thing people were saying, years ago, "Let go and Let God!". Not something in the bible.
So, do not look for a christ-like person in order to have your faith validated. You may find one, but most likely, not. I found one, but I went way out of my way to locate someone who was as blessed, or whatever, to be in any way similar.

Good for you, Merigold. You should have a human form of respect for anyone who actually has a religion. As for your choice to not practice a religion, I am not sure what you mean. If you mean that you do not walk through a ritual, I would have to agree with that. Rituals are a form of mind control and I feel they have no place in real religion.

[edit on 7-3-2008 by jmdewey60]

nice post John....i wish i could have said that as eloquently as you did...i just sometimes feel that people just don't get it and feel a need of giving them some sort of explanation.

reply to post by BlackOps719


wow, you finally get it

Originally posted by theendisnear69
reply to post by jon1

 

just how exactly do you know that god is real? Probably faith once again

Another christian who can not justify their beliefs

Like your tactics but they are wasted on me.

I am immune to taunts now-days.

reply to post by WolfofWar


what the heck does a puddle in pothole have anything to do with what is being talked about. Sometimes, i think people think waaay to hard

reply to post by jon1


i'm not taunting

I just like to laugh at stupid things