Smokers are people too!

reply to post by jfj123


No what I am saying is that if you don't like strippers, don't go to strip clubs, if you don't like gambling, don't go to casino's, if you don't like American Idol, change the channel, if you don't like cigarette smoke don't go to SMOKING ESTABLISHMENTS! Why should the proprietor of a bar be forced by law to change the way he runs his business after 50 years because you don't like it!!!! Logic, I will say it again and again and again, SIMPLE LOGIC!

Originally posted by Cowgirlstraitup7
reply to post by jfj123

 

No what I am saying is that if you don't like strippers, don't go to strip clubs, if you don't like gambling, don't go to casino's, if you don't like American Idol, change the channel, if you don't like cigarette smoke don't go to SMOKING ESTABLISHMENTS! Why should the proprietor of a bar be forced by law to change the way he runs his business after 50 years because you don't like it!!!! Logic, I will say it again and again and again, SIMPLE LOGIC!

Well one thought is that NOT smoking at a bar doesn't hurt anyone but smoking does?

I live in Denver Colorado untill just over a year ago we had the freedom to smoke here. There was a vote to ban smoking in the bars in the greater metro area in Denver a year before this happend. The vote ended up for people to be allowed to smoke because the smokers/ bars won. The majority of bars didnt want to risk there business by turning thier customer base away because most people who go to bars smoke. The states senators and powers that be decided to ban smoking in the whole state any way even though it was voted against in denver. Denver has 75 percent or more of the states population and probaly 85 percent of the states bars. There was bars and restaurants already in Denver that didnt allow smoking. WHERE IS THE FREEDOM IN THAT. WHY NOT BUILD MORE BARS/RESTAURANTS FOR PEOPLE TO GO TO IF THEY WONT BE IN A SMOKEY ENVIRONMENT. IF THERE IS SO MANY PEOPLE THAT WANT THIS THEN CORNER THE MARKET THEY WILL BEAT THE DOOR DOWN TO COME TO YOUR SMOKE FREE ESTABLISHMENT. THAT SOUNDS LIKE FREEDOM TO ME. The whole basis for this was employees deserve a smoke free environment. I have known so many people that have worked in bars and watched them work twice as hard and as fast to get ahead of thier work to have a smoke break. I go to the bar once or twice a month since, used to go to the bar 10 times a month since. Judging by the amount of bars that have closed since the ban I am not the only one.

Originally posted by doctormcauley
I like to smoke indoors. I don't care for the rules much and I do pay for my ambivalence in many ways.

I'm Ontario, we can't smoke at work, or anywhere. So I do.

I smoke everywhere, in the mall, at the store and there isn't a goddamn thing anyone is gonna do about it.
The store could call the cops, or refuse service to me (which is why I recommend smoking after purchasing), but that would cost time and money.

To put it simply... You're my personal hero! I wish all smokers had this kind of courage and there is not a damn thing they could do! Unite smokers of America!

Society, as represented by a democratic voting population, has the right to establish laws as it sees fit. Not everybody will like the laws. The laws may not make logical, rational sense. But if you live in a society and want to benefit from what it has to offer, then you are obliged to follow the laws or face the consequences.

Maybe you'd like to masturbate in public. Nobody would be hurt. And if somebody didn't want to see you masturbate in the local masturbatorium, they wouldn't have to go into it. But society has determined that's something you should do in private, so it passed laws against doing it in public.

That's the way it goes. Nobody's stopping you from puffing your lungs out. But society has determined that it doesn't want you blowing smoke in somebody else's face in a public place.

reply to post by jfj123


Really, are you that brain dead, you included my ENTIRE post in your retort but didn't address anything in it, just went on to say how smoking is bad for your health. I am NOT, I REPEAT NOT talking about the health effects of smoking I am talking about legal rights to the business owner and how it's not fair to for the government and anti smoking gangs to swoop in and change the laws and that change results in the loss of business and the loss of a right to certain people. Wow, you really gotta read before you reply! I will argue with you all night, as long as you have a LOGICAL reply to mine.

Originally posted by sparda4355

Originally posted by doctormcauley
I like to smoke indoors. I don't care for the rules much and I do pay for my ambivalence in many ways.

I'm Ontario, we can't smoke at work, or anywhere. So I do.

I smoke everywhere, in the mall, at the store and there isn't a goddamn thing anyone is gonna do about it.
The store could call the cops, or refuse service to me (which is why I recommend smoking after purchasing), but that would cost time and money.

To put it simply... You're my personal hero! I wish all smokers had this kind of courage and there is not a damn thing they could do! Unite smokers of America!

Yes by all means, lets abuse innocent people to make our point and get our way. Wait, isn't that what hitler did? Well it must be ok then

Originally posted by Cowgirlstraitup7
reply to post by jfj123

 

Really, are you that brain dead, you included my ENTIRE post in your retort but didn't address anything in it, just went on to say how smoking is bad for your health. I am NOT, I REPEAT NOT talking about the health effects of smoking I am talking about legal rights to the business owner and how it's not fair to for the government and anti smoking gangs to swoop in and change the laws and that change results in the loss of business and the loss of a right to certain people. Wow, you really gotta read before you reply! I will argue with you all night, as long as you have a LOGICAL reply to mine.

Here's the question you asked in your post

Why should the proprietor of a bar be forced by law to change the way he runs his business after 50 years because you don't like it!!!!

Here's my response to the question you asked in your post

Well one thought is that NOT smoking at a bar doesn't hurt anyone but smoking does?

Nothing like personal insults to help make your case

Originally posted by Nohup
Society, as represented by a democratic voting population, has the right to establish laws as it sees fit. Not everybody will like the laws. The laws may not make logical, rational sense. But if you live in a society and want to benefit from what it has to offer, then you are obliged to follow the laws or face the consequences.

Maybe you'd like to masturbate in public. Nobody would be hurt. And if somebody didn't want to see you masturbate in the local masturbatorium, they wouldn't have to go into it. But society has determined that's something you should do in private, so it passed laws against doing it in public.

Damn. Ok thanks for the heads up! Now I need to find something else to do on Friday

That's the way it goes. Nobody's stopping you from puffing your lungs out. But society has determined that it doesn't want you blowing smoke in somebody else's face in a public place.

Seriously though, very well said

Here's the funny thing people. I never said you shouldn't be able to smoke. My only point is that people who don't smoke, should have a reasonable expectation out in public that they should not have to be subjected to it.

Smoking does pose health concerns both short and longterm.

All smokers should have the right to smoke but they're rights end where non-smokers rights begin.

Originally posted by jfj123
reply to post by Daedalus

Yes saliva is a biohazard.. Good point.

Yes, i know it is....s'why i said it.

So what is lung cancer?

Not contagious.

What is emphysema?

Not contagious.

What about anyone who has asthma and cigarette smoke causes and attack and that person DIES???

Unlikely. Stop scaremongering.

Yes a biohazzard is bad.
Is dying? I would think it is.

Yes, because you'll die from ANY exposure to heavily diluted cigarette smoke, right? please...

if you're gonna come in here and piss on my boots, and then try to convince me it's raining, at least spin a somewhat compelling bull# story.

Hmmm.. dying, cancer and COPD is laughable??....
and you think MY point is bad????
REALLY????

Again...scaremongering, in a pathetic attempt to lend legitimacy to a completely baseless argument.

FAIL HARDER!

Now I just got in a heated debate with my roommate, who knows I am a smoker, I smoke in the dang house, my point about a business owner made little sense to him, he said, yes, if he owns a business and after 50 years the government told him he can no longer sell playboys he would be fine with that. If it offends someone it's okay to change the laws, wow! It's gotta be a non smoker thing, they like the government crawling up their butts and telling them what to do.

I lived in Charlotte NC from 1999 to 2003. I was amazed you could smoke in Mcdonalds, in grocery stores, any bar or restaurant. You could walk into a gas station smoking away if you want, yes no joke a gas station. Has any body looked at the snow on the ground that has been there for a while it is black with soot that is the air we breath. Is it better than ciggaret smoke. Has any one here ever been at a traffic light and had a diesel truck pull up next to them.

Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by jfj123
reply to post by Daedalus

So what is lung cancer?

Not contagious.

But one of the causes of lung cancer is SMOKING.

What is emphysema?

Not contagious.

But one of the causes of emphysema is SMOKING.

What about anyone who has asthma and cigarette smoke causes and attack and that person DIES???

Unlikely. Stop scaremongering.

Not doing that at all. This is an unfortunate fact.

Yes a biohazzard is bad.
Is dying? I would think it is.

Yes, because you'll die from ANY exposure to heavily diluted cigarette smoke, right? please...

You can if it initiates an asthmatic episode.

if you're gonna come in here and piss on my boots, and then try to convince me it's raining, at least spin a somewhat compelling bull# story.

I can't make you pay attention.

Hmmm.. dying, cancer and COPD is laughable??....
and you think MY point is bad????
REALLY????


Again...scaremongering, in a pathetic attempt to lend legitimacy to a completely baseless argument.

FAIL HARDER!

Yes because those diseases really don't exist and I'm making them and their causes up. RIIIGGHHHHTTT



[edit on 5-3-2008 by jfj123]

reply to post by Daedalus


Here's some info about COPD and asthma in relation to smoking and second hand smoke. These are facts. Call it fear mongering if you want but it doesn't change the fact that smoking hurts people. Do it all you want but don't do it around people who don't want it.

Public attention in the developed world has recently focused on asthma because of its rapidly increasing prevalence, affecting up to one in four urban children.

During an asthma episode, inflamed airways react to environmental triggers such as smoke, dust, or pollen.

Environmental tobacco smoke, especially maternal cigarette smoking, is associated with high risk of asthma prevalence and asthma morbidity, wheeze, and respiratory infections

As is common with respiratory disease, smoking is believed to adversely affect asthmatics in several ways, including an increased severity of symptoms, a more rapid decline of lung function, and decreased response to preventive medications.

Furthermore, exposure of both non-smokers and smokers to wood smoke, gas stove fumes and second-hand smoke is detrimental, resulting in more severe asthma, more emergency room visits, and more asthma-related hospital admissions.[40] Smoking cessation and avoidance of second-hand smoke is strongly encouraged in asthmatics.[41]

Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, which closely resembles asthma, is correlated with more exposure to cigarette smoke, an older patient, less symptom reversibility after bronchodilator administration (as measured by spirometry), and decreased likelihood of family history of atopy.

source wikipedia

reply to post by sparda4355
Listen 1st of all me being your boss was a way of getting my point across. Good for you, you seem like you did good for yourself, God bless. Now putting a cig out on my face and Ild sue you for everthing you'ld touch. that being said go smoke in your car. Smokers had a good run. Now if a company is so luckey to have a ASSest like you, they should not have to spend there own money to provide smokers with shelter.In most areas its the state that bands smoking. Now a alternative would before a company to provide the land if the smokers wanted to pool their money together to buy some form of shelter.

Now as to smoking in bars I feel you should be able to. Only bars not bar/restaurant. My reasoning is your in a bar damaging your liver why not the lungs.

MACHINES emit SMOKE

Too all you people who use machinery SHAME! You are making me breath in nasty gross putrid smoke! I want them to ban your right to use machinery. It is your choice, you don't have to drive or mow your lawn. You choose to do it!

Anti-smokers make me want to smoke even more!

When all of you stop emitting some form of smoke I will stop smoking cigarettes. Until then you are all just a bunch of hypocrites!

I know what this is really about....

Anti-smoker: "WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH Federal Governess! Cigarette smoke smells bad! I know that I make smoke too but it isn't smelly like cigarettes are."

Federal Governess: "Shhhhhh, there there Anti-smoker the Governess will make it all better."

Hypocrites!

Originally posted by illigitimati

But anyway it basically found that smokers set themselves sub-conscious goals before having a smoke, which they see as a reward for themselves after completeing a task.

Well said, even if you can't find the article... us smokers can attest! I do that every day, I am in sales and I reward myself when I get applications (sales in my industry)... I actually prevent myself from having one until I achieve these goals you are refering to... good point my friend, good point, you get a star!

i just heard today they are closer to getting smokeing baned in cars with kids. as if the "please don't smoke in the car, even when i'm not in it (whine) comercial wasn't bad enough. i'm sorry but i'm getting to the point of just saying f'it and light up anyways.

seriously they claim it's for our health. but lets face it smokers are getting sick a lot more frequently now then before. we can't soke inside a workplace (includeing a company vehicle that only you drive, or work vehicle and i think if they realy wanted to push it personal vehicles used for work).any public vehicles buses ,taxies, rental vehicles, ect. public buildings (except hospitals) within a certain distance of doors, outdoor patios,subway and bus terminals,(over 3 hours without a smoke. yet another reason a lot of people won't take transit). hech we can/t have more than two walls on a smokeing shelter.

now they want to ban smokeing in cars with kids, (i'm sure that like the comercial says it will be more cars that "might" contain kids at some point). dwellings that contaain kids( agin will prob end up "might eventualy" contain kids. appartment buildings yes many don't even have balconies (in many new building only fist few floors and roofs have balconies one i lived in only balconies to the fourth floor out of 30 or so). and even on balconies for that matter.

i hate to say it but we smokers do tend to be rather bitter on the subject as WE DO tend to feel like we arn't being given fair and equil treatment. but then again "fainess" and "equality" aren't even real it's just a changeing of the prdudace at the whim of a few. this is why they tend to snap at well inteding people giveing out unasked for advice and rules. we even get to trhe point of saying "who cares about the kids i am doing nothing illigal and being treated like a criminal".

people say "just quit", i say "ya right".. if i couldn't quit without any money for a few months, what the heck would make me think i could snap my fingers and "smoke no more". besides i've tried to quit too many times i know it's dammed near impossible.

you know it wasn't long ago restraunts here were allowed smokeing rooms, they had to be sealed with a separate vent system. it worked whene done propperly, just think i once walked into one about 10'x10' with 10 people smokeing and you couldnt even smell it. why can't we have something like that instead of outright bans? after all we DO have rights too you know!