The Sorcery Conspiracy

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy

Plastic does not occur in nature... but it is manufactured from things that DO occur naturally there... Therefore it is fully natural.

You are right, of course, PuReEnErGy, but you do not go nearly far enough.

Everything is natural, because we humans are a part of nature, not separate or different from it in any way. Nothing we make or do -- not even, I fear, the atrocities of a Hitler or a Gilles de Rais -- can possibly be unnatural.

Any sorcerers or holy-spirit-filled-christians out there need a quick million bucks? (don't worry about selfish intentions, You can always donate it to a charity!)

There is no such thing as witches flying around or a stupid "sorcerer's conspiracy". No one has yet to win James Randi's 1 million dollar reward. I would love to be proven wrong, but for now, the existence of real "magic" or "miracles" has never been proven. That is a FACT.

The topic is amusing. Christianity is the majority in many countries yet its followers will continuously feel persecuted by invisible entities or persons that do not exist. Talk about a persecution complex.

reply to post by nikolat23


You must be kidding right?

Sorcery is expressly forbidden by the levitical law.

'Do not practice divination or sorcery.
Leviticus 19:25

Jesus teaching concerning the law

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill" (Matthew 5:17).

It is completely false to call Jesus a sorcerer!
It's also called heresy.

I am glad we amused you. Thanks for your thoughts.

Oh buy the way, by coincidence, I posted an article about the million dollar challenge this morning. He's going out of business.

The Myth of the Million Dollar Challenge








[edit on 3/3/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Marijuana is certainly a drug - any Doctor will testify to that fact. You are just wrong. Plants can be drugs. Try telling a judge it's not a drug in a court room and see how far you get.

Im guessing your rather young and have not lived life and fully researched the implications of what it seems your trying to say?

Again I only say that as this post does reflect a certain naivety found in people who have yet gained life experience/knowledge or who are just indoctrinated in one train of thought. (Or both)

This does not matter, here is the point:

Do some research in any medical journals...you can find them online, and go from now back to around 1999. (thats just recent history) and find that the docs publications have virtually only good and positive reports on THC.

So much so they want and did synthesize THC in the lab.
Why? Well I suppose they dont want you growing your own. This world is about control, and if you havent noticed that by now, Im sure this post wont do it for you.

What the American populace gets on the news and what the doctors get in their mags are two sides. One is fed for fear and propaganda, and the latter on science.)

Ah, what about the testimonials of those who did not benefit from it...that it made them lazy or stupid.

Misuse, that simple. Just because THC has medical uses does not mean that it is evil because someone does not know how, when, and why it should be applied.

The laws we have are to protect the mass of society against their own ignorance.
Sad to say (that we are that unconscious), but this is why you find the seemingly contradiction in the stories about THC in the medical community and the regular community.

Along side the fact that certain groups of interest do want to control who gets it based on them wanting the money to flow their way. If you could grow your own herbs to take care of yourself what would become of health care which in one of the journals was listed as the 3rd leading cause of death a few years back.

So you see...true sorcery again...like I posted at the very beginning.
Manipulating a people...its not about the tools, or herbs.
Your totally looking at the wrong thing. Someone cries out, "hey look a smurf" and their goes the heads of the masses while they pull the wool over their eyes.

I truly hope this helps, and that you read it with an open mind. It was not meant to attack you - I was in a similar situation, infact we all are. When we are young we feel we know it all based upon our limited experience and what our milieu gives us. (at least our attitudes tend to show that even if we dont say it.)

And if your in religion, it can be tricky, yet religion can be the key out also...
IF you seek, you will find...if you seek with all your heart. (and here lies the key.)

Gods blessings to you...

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
adigregorio it's a case of the spirit of the law over the letter of the law.
It's what it does to your mind, not how you consume it. Eating it instead of smoking it doesn't make it acceptable by the Biblical standard. The scriptures are referring to eating plants for food. Pot isn't eaten for nourishment- but for the effect.

- again, you will have to forgive me, but the misuse of what the bible says does kind of get to me...I try not to be as passionate as I used to, for we must all walk our own path...but see my above post concerning this.

- hemp is eaten for nutrition and legal.
Yes hemp does have trace amounts of THC (some of it now claims 0%, that was not the case a few years back, and in Europe still is not the case)

So my question, seeing that legal hempseed did and still does contain low amounts of THC...does this make it evil? Again the argument cant be held up. You can argue that you would have to eat a truck load to get high...but that really isnt the point.

It seems as you have demonified a plant, which quite frankly is more user friendly than the hamburger most people pick up from Mcdonalds.

Europe never had grossly over weight people like America (especially in Hungary) until Mcdonalds and other fast foods came in. 10 years ago, find a grossly overweight Hungarian, you couldnt do it...

But now, you see the kids that way. Im telling you, its whats in the food.
Now this is sorcery, not the food itself, but the manipulation of mankind to eat such crap and think its fine...even AFTER they see their own bodies going to waste.

I really hope you begin to see the difference between what sorcery is and isnt.
Blaming a tool just does not do justice to anyone. See the world and how it operates and it becomes clear.

Anything other than this is just walking with ones eyes closed yelling out 'witch' without knowledge of what one is talking about. And also, this gives the bad name to Christians as it is twisting the Bible to ones own doctrine and purpose.

peace

dAlen

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
It would be more accurate to say that you are off-base.

See.. you think that if someone has temporal lobe seizures or if they do drugs that somehow this makes whatever they have seen or envisioned to be false and you are flat out WRONG.

Good post...
I would like to add to this, and hit may help the O.P. to see clearer...
But BigWhammy, you are illegal.

Do you know why? Or do you WANT to know?

YOu have '___' in your brain, and thats scheduled you know? Perhaps you didnt.
'___' is found in quite a few plants, as well as in the human brain.

And seeing its scheduled, it too must be an evil plant of sorcery.
(Im only saying like this, not to mock you, but to really try to drive home the point that your are not even remotely talking about sorcery...again refer to above post)

So, there you have it...we are all walking illegal entities.
Now with how we are treated with laws, etc. this may not be surprising to some.

Again, there is a wonderful thread already started on this that was put in R.A.T.S.
And its about 'herbs' and God - or certain components therein.

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by coven
the question being how can you state that as a fact when a large sect of Christians (rasta) practice this use as a method to get closer to god?

Thanks and good day,

Coven

I will answer your question.

Having been a former zionist, evangelical, zealot, Christian - you judge everything even those who call themselves Christians...you judge them the hardest and if they dont agree with you, they must not be of the fold or they are deceived.

I know this may come as a surprise, but its true.
And one last thing...those converts of ours (I was raised and was a dedicated evangelical, not a 'convert' of later years), but after one converts...they are typically "the sons of hell" Jesus talked about - the pharisees would travel over land and sea to win one convert and make them "twice the son of hell".

I wrote on my blog about this, and it actually had a good response, I didnt think it would...but the truth is there and it resonated with people...even evangelicals ironically.

See, people become "twice the son of hell" after the first thing in their life didnt work...they cant bare any more disillusionment, and therefore will fight you tooth and nail and be harder than those who converted them. This isnt saying it clearly, but IM sure you can feel whats happening.

peace

dAlen (once the son of hell)

[edit on 3-3-2008 by dAlen]

reply to post by dAlen



I'm not young. I've probably spilled more than you've seen ok.

Don't take it as an insult I'm messing with you. But I used to smoke a lot.

Getting stoned is not good and positive in my book. It messes up your short term memory that is a fact. The Bible tells us to be sober and alert. There is no room for pot in the life of a serious Christian.

I don't think it should be illegal. I am for decriminalization.

But it is not Biblically Ok. That's all I am speaking to.


You keep making that claim about the definition but its just a claim.
drug use is sorcerery by the Biblical definition .
If you argue that isn't so SHOW EVIDENCE
Get a Bible and show me a verse with your definition of sorcery! I am using a new testament refernce that refers to modern times. I believe now.
Rev 9:21

And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts." Gr. pharmakeus); from pharmakon (a drug, i.e. spell-giving potion); a druggist ("pharmacist") or poisoner, i.e. (by extension) a magician: sorcerer.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

I'm not young. I've probably spilled more than you've seen ok.

Don't take it as an insult I'm messing with you. But I used to smoke a lot.

I don't think it should be illegal. I am for decriminalization.

But it is not Biblically Ok. That's all I am speaking to.


You keep making that claim about the definition but its just a claim.
drug use is sorcerery by the Biblical definition .
If you argue that isn't so SHOW EVIDENCE

No problem, I know your just messing around.

As for smoking, again there is a time and place for everything...thus the science and the study of it by the docs.

Just because its good does not mean its beneficial for all situations.
That goes with anything.

And again proves the point of sorcery. Sorcery would be to manipulate you to do something that is good, at the wrong time. (look at Adam and Eve as an example)

As for my biblical sources, they are everywhere...like the one above.
Its not about one verse, its about the observation of the lives of the people in the bible and what is going on...like what happened with the snake and eve...that was sorcery. A manipulation and twisting of what God said.

The tree wasnt bad, but there was a time and place...and that was not it.

It is all to easy to take one verse and go off on it...if you see the whole first the rest fall into place

Peace

dAlen

reply to post by dAlen



That's a really silly argument OK.

I am sober with this little amount of naturally occurring '___'.
SO WHAT
I am not trying to get high....

If you use '___' you put a super physiological amount in that does not occur by normal human function to GET HIGH
different story

I mean duhhhhhhhhhhh

Originally posted by Bigwhammy Marijuana WILL take over your life if you let it. I hope I've helped you to deny ignorance.
[edit on 3/1/2008 by Bigwhammy]

The only problem is that we blame something other than ourselves for the problem.
Anything, when we are not conscious, will and does take over our lives.

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
That's a really silly argument OK.

I am sober with this little amount of naturally occurring '___'.
SO WHAT
I am not trying to get high....

If you use '___' you put a super physiological amount in that does not occur by normal human function to GET HIGH
different story

I mean duhhhhhhhhhhh

Actually, its not a silly argument.
I take it you are unaware of the nature and purpose and power of '___' in your brain.
Please read up more before saying that. The argument is legit...

Peace

dAlen

edit:
but according to your own words...then THC should be fine if your not getting high.
And then it cannot be a plant for sorcery.

How can it be a plant for sorcery if it depends on the amount?
Either it is evil or its not.

See you cant have it both ways...this goes with '___' in the brain.

You think my comment sounds silly, its as silly as your comment about plants being the definition of sorcery.

[edit on 3-3-2008 by dAlen]

reply to post by Bigwhammy

Let me paraphrase... because some misinformed people in Youth for Christ gave you incorrect information regarding drug use, you began using drugs -- saw that they weren't as bad as they had said. Feeling like they misled you, you then chose drugs over church. Correct?

I fear you have misunderstood me.

I originally took drugs because I was curious about them. That was over thirty years ago. Doubtless the bushels and bales of sorcerous herbs, pills and potions I have consumed since then have affected my body and brain both physically and functionally, but life does that in any case. I am middle-aged, fit and youthful-looking, reasonably well-adjusted and successful in my chosen career. I have many friends and am considered a person of some note in my community. I have had the usual ups and downs in my personal life; I am childless by choice and presently single, which suits me fine. Doubtless I have been lucky. Maybe the sorcerous powers of drugs had something to do with it; certainly, for better or worse, they have helped make me what I am. I have also seen many friends badly damaged by drug abuse. Not everyone is capable of using drugs wisely; I do not encourage people to take them.

However, the mythmaking, fear and paranoia surrounding psychoactive substances is laughable. Most of it is generated, I notice, by people who have never taken drugs themselves, or by those (such as one enthusiastic poster in this thread) who overdid it in their youth, had a bad scare and spent the rest of their lives illustrating the cliche that there is no saint like a reformed sinner. Such hysteria cannot help but seem naive and ill-informed to a seasoned drug user. Personal experience always trumps theoretical knowledge.

Did drug use change your belief in God?

No, simple observation and deduction based on the evidence of my senses did that. There was also an affective component to the change, as there invariably is in these cases, but it would be impolite to speak of it among so many believers.

Did it amount to choosing drugs over God?

Not in the least. God was never a plausible contender, though he showed promising form during my youth and childhood.

reply to post by dAlen



Maybe I misunderstood you.

If you mean a legal argument OK whatever Idon't care about that

Legalize it - whatever - the drug laws are evil IMHO

I just mean I am sober w/ my naturally occurring brain chemistry
and it does not justify getting high for someone who wants to follow the Bibles teaching.

Fair enough?

I'm not judging anyones choices outside of what I believe the bible teaches

Paul talks about being sober over and over ----- any drug or booze or whatever --- that is the bible standard

reply to post by Astyanax


Fair enough!

I don't mind the reference to me either I LOVE IT!!!

is no saint like a reformed sinner

That's exactly what I want to be.

Thanks for the compliment. (not sarcasm)

I mean it






[edit on 3/3/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Maybe I misunderstood you.

If you mean a legal argument OK whatever Idon't care about that

Legalize it - whatever - the drug laws are evil IMHO

I just mean I am sober w/ my naturally occurring brain chemistry
and it does not justify getting high for someone who wants to follow the Bibles teaching.

Fair enough?

I have to give you credit, at least you want to understand me.
It has been my experience that Christians (who converted later in life) tend to be closed minded and thus repeat things due to not reading what is there.

Again, I appreciate that you are at least trying to understand where Im coming from.

I dont care about the legalize or not legalize.
For me that is a none issue.

Why? Because people need guidance. Consciousness, awareness...or whatever you want to call it...just isnt there.

People misuse it. Think about it, people misuse food by overeating or under eating, etc.
Now they cant make that illegal...people have to eat.

Point is not about legalities.

My sole point is to show that herbs are a tool.
It would do great disservice to people, especially Christians, to go on a witch hunt and burn the the wrong thing.

The true sorcerer is not in black robes saying some magic spell and calling upon demons. I hate to say it, but this is the simplest way I can.

The Bible and all sacred text are in stages...parables, allegories.
Look at Jesus if you need further proof. If thats not enough look at Judaism.
Genesis is taught on 4 levels known as P.R.D.S. (parades) the beginning being Pshat, which is parable level.

So, what is a sorcerer? Forget one or two verses...no not forget forget...(I will have a screaming evangelical down my back for that one), but point is look at the Bible as a whole unit and see for yourself in the lives of people of the Bible that sorcery is purely the manipulation of a person or group of peoples will.

I can only say that my involvement in Christianity has taken me to places few Christians will go. When i say I was a zealot, I mean it. I have seen true sorcery in action and it is what I have been saying. I cannot help that people want to get stuck over semantics.

Again, recognize a tool for what it is.

My point about '___' is what I said above:
"...according to your own words then, THC should be fine if your not getting high.
And therefor it cannot be a plant for sorcery.

How can it be a plant for sorcery if it depends on the amount?
Either it is evil or its not.

See you cant have it both ways...this goes with '___' in the brain...

You think my comment sounds silly, its as silly as your comment about plants being the definition of sorcery. "

As I have repeatedly pointed out, your whole argument now falls to pieces, and plants can no longer be labeled as a 'sorcery' plant. (Which doesnt even sound right...its more accurate, as I have been pointing out, to say that they are like anything else...tools, to be used potentially for sorcery or for good...or for nothing at all.)

peace

dAlen


[edit on 3-3-2008 by dAlen]

reply to post by Bigwhammy

Pardon me, but I was not referring to you.

Earlier on in this thread there were a number of posts from a very troubled and frightened soul, who appears now to have left the conversation. That was the person I had in mind.

reply to post by Bigwhammy
I can definitely respect your belief in God and your belief that sorcery and witchcraft are sins under the bible. I only question what you cite as proof for what you say in your post in this thread. For instance, you cite Enoch as part of the proof f your belief. Enoch, the last time I checked, however, was NOT part of the bible. In your post, you also mentioned Galatians 5:19-21. That part you had correctly quoted. And I applaud you for that. And another part that you had quoted was from Revelation, Chapter 9:20-21. The only question I have about that is that in one bible, the Revised Standard Version, which I have in front of me right now, that verse states:
9:20: "The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plaques, did not repent of their works nor give up worshipping demons and idols of gld and silver and bronze and stone and wood, whic cannot either see or hear or walk;
9:21: "nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their immorality or their thefts."
The New American Standard, which I also have in front of me, is worded much the same way.
Nowhere does it say, as you try to point out, in either verse does it mention the part about roots, which were used for making medicines at the time. Even Jews did this. And so did the early christian communities when they first started forming. This was the way they did things back then. You do yourself a disservice by misquoting the bible. I am not saying that you shouldn't use it to defend your positions. I am only saying that to use it effectively, you MUST quote it accurately. I would like to thank you for having tried to point out what you believe in and would lie to congratulate you for it. I hope this hasn't come across as a personal attack on you. That was not my intention, and I hope you haven't taken it as such.

reply to post by Astyanax


My guess is that you are talking about me.
Sorry if I was gone yesterday, I had LOTs of things to do!
Apparently, You barely read ANYTHING I posted!
It doesn't matter to me if you like to do *certain substances* (I'm not sure that you do, but, you seem to defend their recreational Use.)
The fact is that they alter your brain's limbic functions.

Thinking that Americans are Totally against hemp is
One of my favorite shampoos is made of it.



[edit on 3-3-2008 by Clearskies]

Originally posted by Wally Conley
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

I can definitely respect your belief in God and your belief that sorcery and witchcraft are sins under the bible. I only question what you cite as proof for what you say in your post in this thread. For instance, you cite Enoch as part of the proof f your belief. Enoch, the last time I checked, however, was NOT part of the bible.

I appreciate your concern. I will try to address it ok.

I have already explained about the Enoch quote back in the thread.

In your post, you also mentioned Galatians 5:19-21. That part you had correctly quoted. And I applaud you for that. And another part that you had quoted was from Revelation, Chapter 9:20-21. The only question I have about that is that in one bible, the Revised Standard Version, which I have in front of me right now, that verse states:
9:20: "The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plaques, did not repent of their works nor give up worshipping demons and idols of gld and silver and bronze and stone and wood, whic cannot either see or hear or walk;
9:21: "nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their immorality or their thefts."
The New American Standard, which I also have in front of me, is worded much the same way.
Nowhere does it say, as you try to point out, in either verse does it mention the part about roots, which were used for making medicines at the time. Even Jews did this. And so did the early christian communities when they first started forming. This was the way they did things back then. You do yourself a disservice by misquoting the bible. I am not saying that you shouldn't use it to defend your positions. I am only saying that to use it effectively, you MUST quote it accurately. I would like to thank you for having tried to point out what you believe in and would lie to congratulate you for it. I hope this hasn't come across as a personal attack on you. That was not my intention, and I hope you haven't taken it as such.

I did quote it accurately. The word sorcery that you are reading in that verse comes from a Greek manuscript the Greek word is:

PHARMAKIA (or -EIA) (Eng., pharmacy etc.) primarily signified the use of medicine, drugs, spells; then, poisoning; then sorcery. . . . In sorcery, the use of drugs, whether simple or potent, was generally accompanied by incantations and appeals to occult powers, with the provision of various charms, amulets, etc.t

My whole point in this thread is those English translations do reflect the authors intent for the original manuscripts. Which was in Greek.

So NIV
2"Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts." (rev 9:21)

Magic Arts = pharmakia

Look here for proof of the Greek (scroll down to the middle you'll see this verse in Greek).
www.blueletterbible.org...

I hope that clears it up. I mentioned medicines and we found some "good drug" verses back in the thread. But getting high is not medicine.





[edit on 3/3/2008 by Bigwhammy]