I think the Bible makes it pretty clear that when they're talking about sorcery, what they're talking about are actual nasty disembodied spirits, demons, that would infest people. I don't think they're talking about drug addiction. Jesus actually spends quite a lot of time and energy in his ministry engaged in sorcery, which would be the calling and controlling of these demons. He does it so much that it would cut out a huge portion of the narrative to hide it, and it's obvious that it becomes such a big business for him that it's one of the big reasons why the Jewish elite in Jerusalem put the hit out on him.

And when you consider that Jesus himself on a couple of occasions were encouraging people to drink alcohol, I don't think there is a veiled reference there to drugs or drug abuse.

What is hidden, though, are the specific incantations, spells and actions that would allow people to call and control demons. Maybe there are better, hidden books dealing with that. I don't suppose, however, it would be a good thing for every Tom, Dick and Yusef to learn to control demons. But that is certainly a fairly large bit of functional, specific knowledge that is conspicuously absent from the Bible, a book where so much of the narrative includes mention of sorcery and other encounters with demons and unusual creatures.

We are not allowed to discuss illegal activity on ATS, but let me just say that natural mind altering substances are far less evil than some of the stuff we are given as 'medicine'.

There are substances put in our food and in our medicine that completely alter our health, our consciousness etc. without us even knowing. That's real sorcery. That's putting a 'spell' on someone in a literal fashion.

When a person takes a drug recreationally, he does it with intent to experience his consciousness in a different manner. When he starts to take it habitually, the experience becomes meaningless and he is an addict.

I DO believe that people can be affected by outside entities of consciousness, I hesitate to use the word 'spirit' but this is how people would have understood it before the modern age.

You are absolutely right, BW. Although sorcery in terms of witchcraft is strictly prohibited, in this context and original Greek that is exactly what is saying.

The passage is prophesying how things will be in the last days. Included in the description of a declined moral society, 'pharmacies' is listed as one of the 'signs of the times.' And if you need 'proof' that people are being over medicated with dangerous 'mind altering substances' or that illegal drugs are rampant then you need to get out more. There is most certainly a drug epidemic, both legal and illegal.

Bigwhammy!
You're Exactly RIGHT!
Pharmaceutical drugs almost KILLED me!

Let me begin by saying that drugs were with me from 16 up.
Recreational.
After many traumatic events, I ended up in a private mental facility for depression. After spending time with certain doctors, I was diagnosed with bi-polar, agoraphobia and I had psychotic features.
I was on lithium, tegratol, wellbutrin and others I can't remember.
The doctor decided to put me on Haldol.
That same night in the facility, after meds, I felt sick.
I didn't know for sure if it was the medicine, but I didn't want to go off any meds that might help 'cure' me.
Little by little, I blacked out. "Where is my purse?" (We were allowed personal items, as long as they weren't 'sharps'.)
I 'came to' one time and I was finishing a pastel in art.
What was going ON?
I was STILL taking my 3 time a day meds, I was also wearing a nicotine patch,(Put on by the nurses)It was 21mg AND I was STILL smoking marlboro Reds!

The next thing I know, I'm laying in my bed watching a couple of baseball players pitching back and forth(They had uniforms on). My favorite nurse was holding my hand and telling me it was going to be alright.
Then, she was GONE. I went to the nurses' desk. All the other patients were gone to therapy or somewhere and it was really peaceful and quiet. I asked the nurse where my nurse was and she said, "Virginia's not here today, honey."
I told her about what was going on in my room just a couple of yards away and she grew concerned and said that I HAD to tell my parents to get my meds changed. The nurse and I told my Mom the next Sunday visit.

She told the Administrators, but they defended, saying that it MUST be a drug I had taken outside of the clinic. That it was permanent and for her to join a support group.
I had signed myself in to get help for depression and to 'get myself together'.
So, only I could ask for a change, but, I couldn't!

Well, My Dad came up there and threatened them with a shotgun if they didn't change my doctor and they brought in another, younger doctor.
I 'woke up' and looked at my room, which had some new things in it and, later, when my Mom came, I was like, "What is going on?"

Of course, my depression and suicidal tendencies only got worse.
I eventually quit ALL my mental medications, but I still did recreational ones to keep me going.
You know what happens if you O.D. on Stelazine?( a pharmaceutical drug)
Your whole right side seizes up, WEIRD!
One of my dear friends(Who was about 20 years older than me got caught in the doctor prescribed stupor, also.
I went to see her , when she could still drive. She was on MANY meds. I told her to tell her doctor to take her off and let her mind clean up, but she couldn't and a few years later, she was dead of complications.

I've only seen a devil twice, once when I was slipped a mind-altering hallucination liquid.
The DAY I got saved, I was TOTALLY healed and I haven't even smoked a cigarette in 10 years!


SORRY for my long story, but it won't cost you a dime and it's TRUE!

A question for the poster, which version of the Bible are you using? The King James version removes all references to a difference between magic being good and evil. Keep in mind, King James hated magic (Part of the reason why Shakespeare wrote Macbeth with the witches, probably) and had the Bible edited to suit his beliefs.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
A question for the poster, which version of the Bible are you using? The King James version removes all references to a difference between magic being good and evil. Keep in mind, King James hated magic (Part of the reason why Shakespeare wrote Macbeth with the witches, probably) and had the Bible edited to suit his beliefs.

That's the NIV but I do not understand what you mean by "references to a magic being good and evil"

What does that mean?

edit --> you mean good or evil right? Feel free to correct me if you have any evidence to the contrary but I don't believe there is "good magic" in the Bible. Not to say that supernatural means evil, obviously not. Jesus did miracles and healings... I guess it's just semantics. The disciples cast out demons, healed people as well. The context of "sorcery" was never good.


BTW -> You're right King James was a real sicko too!



[edit on 2/29/2008 by Bigwhammy]

I don't have an informed opinion on the topic, as it was something that I had never considered before. Thank you for bringing it up. Interesting and 'out of the box' thinking.

Good job!

Eric

as a long-time member of ATS who would enjoy a thorough discussion I am displeased that we can discuss the negative personal effects of drugs yet anything crossing that border gets stomped on quickly.. for a site that boasts denying ignorance I think the guillotine should be sharpened for both sides to be fair.

Especially in a thread dealing with sorcery and the amount of times I've seen the word drug used... either there has to be a mature approach to this or a section where it's allowed because to have an open discussion concerning this topic the flood-gates have to be opened.