Originally posted by John Nada

This probably lead to people hopping off the merry-go-round, but the powers that be couldn't lose their worker bees, so what else could they do?

"Suicide is against God!!! *whispers*Phew! that was a close one"

It probably went something like that.

Sounds about right!

Add to that the fact that Religion uses the fear of death to blackmail people into believing, so you can't have people doing themselves in as this is a lack of fear.

Originally posted by Amorymeltzer

Originally posted by JustAnIllusion
God forgives everything. But you have to pray and repent for forgiveness. If you commit suicide, you have commited murder, and you cannot repent because your dead. So, shouldnt you go to hell if you commit suicide?

christianity says yes.

Actually, it doesn't. In Christianity, Jesus died for all sins you ever commit or committed or will commit. And as someone said earlier the only unforgivable sin is the total rejection of Christ and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

at the same time the anti-choice people condemn suicide, they approve of things like the death penalty, abortion, and that old staple of civilization,

W A R

yes- if a person is dragged off to their death by government authority AGAINST their will, we approve....yet if they declare they WANT to die, we brand them mentally ill and thwart their choice.

can i ask a sincere question?

if a person believes in an afterlife and expects to be there after "killing" themselves, are they still considered suicidal? i have read a lot of anti-suicide literature and it seems to deliberately avoid this question.

to know whether suicide [choosing DEATH] is wrong or not we would have to know a lot more about what death IS. the whole thing reminds me of watching the old game show LET'S MAKE A DEAL.....do we stick with what we've got, or give it up for the chance of something better?

who gets to decide?

I would like peoples opinions on three scenarios here:

1: Imagine a man with no friends or family. He's a billionair has everything he wants will always get what he wants. He has been everywhare he wants, done everything he wants to do and seen everything he wants to see. Life is now an endless repetition of things he got bored of a long time ago. He kills himself because he is bored of life. No mental illness to depression just plain simple boredom, nothing to lose and no one to hurt. So off he goes. Your opinion?

2: Again someone with no family or friends but enjoys life. The guy (or girl, you never know) is simply curious about what happens after death. A curiosity that is more intense then their desire for life. So they kill themselves to see what happens. Your opinion?

3: A horrible cataclysm kills everyone on Earth exept for you and wrecks the whole world. Would you kill yourself? If not what would you do?

[edit on 6-9-2004 by Faceless]

1. Scenario 1...the bored billionarie. I think he would need therapy. Suicide because of ennui is just hubris. I'm not saying he's condemened to hell, but it seems a very narrow and selfish reason for ending life.
2. Scenario 2: Death is the greatest mystery. Of course, we are curious about it, but there is a time to be born and a time to die. There's too much to learn, on earth, before opting for the final mystery. Perhaps that final mystery is one we earn...we don't take.
3. Here, I'm more on the edge. I have always contended that, at my age, I'd just as soon not be the survivor of a nuclear catastrophe etc. But, again, perhaps, you are the one spared for a reason.
In a nutshell, I do believe in allowing people to die a natural death and even withold drugs to hasten that death in a terminal condition. But, I'm also conflicted about other scenarios because I believe strongly in karma and some form of predestination.
It's all the big riddle isn't it.
joey

1. Scenario 1...the bored billionarie. I think he would need therapy. Suicide because of ennui is just hubris. I'm not saying he's condemened to hell, but it seems a very narrow and selfish reason for ending life.
2. Scenario 2: Death is the greatest mystery. Of course, we are curious about it, but there is a time to be born and a time to die. There's too much to learn, on earth, before opting for the final mystery. Perhaps that final mystery is one we earn...we don't take.
3. Here, I'm more on the edge. I have always contended that, at my age, I'd just as soon not be the survivor of a nuclear catastrophe etc. But, again, perhaps, you are the one spared for a reason.
In a nutshell, I do believe in allowing people to die a natural death and even withold drugs to hasten that death in a terminal condition. But, I'm also conflicted about other scenarios because I believe strongly in karma and some form of predestination.
It's all the big riddle isn't it.
joey

Originally posted by joey
1. Scenario 1...the bored billionarie. I think he would need therapy. Suicide because of ennui is just hubris. I'm not saying he's condemened to hell, but it seems a very narrow and selfish reason for ending life.

I don't understand why you say he needs therapy like he isn't thinking right. It's his decision, he is of sound mind and decided that death is what he wants. Why the therapy?

2. Scenario 2: Death is the greatest mystery. Of course, we are curious about it, but there is a time to be born and a time to die. There's too much to learn, on earth, before opting for the final mystery. Perhaps that final mystery is one we earn...we don't take.

I don't understand this. If someone commits suicide then they die, how can someone only earn death?

3. Here, I'm more on the edge. I have always contended that, at my age, I'd just as soon not be the survivor of a nuclear catastrophe etc. But, again, perhaps, you are the one spared for a reason.

What possible reason?

Can't one man on an empty world do nothing? Or all that he pleases? Or would nothing please him? Wouldn't it all be meaningless?

There is NO Unforgivable Sin other than blasphemy of the Spirit and for those of us who think on a higher level other than trivial religious mundanes, there is no said Unforgivable Sin.....we are all of One and will all return to the One......
There is no Unforgivable Sin, because for there to be an 'unforgivable sin', the sin must be determined as unforgivable; Who has determined and thus proclaims that suicide is unforgivable....
As always, Sin is subjective, as is this topic discussion, as is Right and Wrong......as is Faith, Belief, etc.............




seekerof

gotta remove religion first if we are to think clearly on such matters.
(religion has murdered more innocents than all other atrocities combined).
that said: my guess is that it just isn't good karma for the most part (excluding the terminally or mentally ill). i imagine you might get 'recycled' and it won't be anymore fun for you then than it is now. perhaps even worse? and wonder if we need you here? and your premature exit prolongs this hell for everyone else? an 'empath' takes the earth plane real hard. reach out and find those of like mind and work towards making your life expierence congruent with your thoughts of how it should be.
killing oneself tramatizes the remaining family in a way that might last for generations. do you really want that on your conscious, no matter where you end up?
nope, it just isn't a true option. even though i have felt it might be in my lifetime.
think of death like a current to the afterlife if you will. whatever you are vibrating to is where you will end up. if you are sad and depressed (negative emotions) you are going to fare far worse. there is no tunnel of light for those who soul is so dark it is ready to perish.
i mean, how #ed up would it be to end up on the other side, on the spoon of a hungry monster! LOL
be very very careful. as the truth is, none of us know for sure what will happen.
in the end, i wasn't going to take the risk...

Originally posted by Faceless
I would like peoples opinions on three scenarios here

1:The poor little rich Millionare. Sorry, you can't convince me that has been so traumatized by boredom that they would feel the need to whack themselves. The opposite I could understand. Knowing that there is a whole world of exciting and wonderful places and things to do, yet not having the money to experience them would be the truly depressing scenario.

2: I don't understand this question so I'll leave it alone.

3:Celebrate madly by dancing in the streets naked.

well it is taught that suicide is an unforgivable it believe this to be false.
slowly the view on suicide as a "mortal" sin is fading. People are begining to believe that when a person has the capacity to kill themselves they do not have the state of mind to be fully aware of this.
What I mean is they are in such depression that they only see one option. Their mind is cluttered and they cant see any other way. The feel this is the only way out. The do not havea a full sense of reason.
Im sure some do it for selfish unrepentable reasons, but the majority i like to think have made peace with god.

Originally posted by JustAnIllusion

Originally posted by Amuk
I will get flamed for this but If you are that weak who cares what happens to you?

I am not talking about a dying person dying a few days early to ease there suffering or some one dying for a cause, etc

I am talking about people that kill themselves over girlfriends, fights with there wife, bankruptcy, etc.

I agree, people who commit suicide are weak.

Sadly, there is alot of weak people. Every 40 seconds someone kills themselves.

Weak? Naaah. We all have our moments of weaknesses that can render us capable of many things we otherwise wouldn't consider. Selfish, is more like it. My alcoholic uncle blew his brains out a few years back and the ripple effect of pain and anguish he left behind was stunningly overwhelming. Suicide is selfish. Period.

Originally posted by joey
1. Scenario 1...the bored billionarie. I think he would need therapy. Suicide because of ennui is just hubris. I'm not saying he's condemened to hell, but it seems a very narrow and selfish reason for ending life.
2. Scenario 2: Death is the greatest mystery. Of course, we are curious about it, but there is a time to be born and a time to die. There's too much to learn, on earth, before opting for the final mystery. Perhaps that final mystery is one we earn...we don't take.
3. Here, I'm more on the edge. I have always contended that, at my age, I'd just as soon not be the survivor of a nuclear catastrophe etc. But, again, perhaps, you are the one spared for a reason.
In a nutshell, I do believe in allowing people to die a natural death and even withold drugs to hasten that death in a terminal condition. But, I'm also conflicted about other scenarios because I believe strongly in karma and some form of predestination.
It's all the big riddle isn't it.
joey

4. Accidental death through auto-erotic asphyxiation. It accounts for a pretty good portion of male teen 'suicides.'