Originally posted by Jonna
What if you know that you are going to die if you do a particular thing, but in doing so you save many other lives. Isn't that still technically suicide?

yes, but u can get around it and say that ur trading lives. urs for her's, urs for the family's, urs for the nation's. suicide has a very negative connotation, that is positive, heroic even.

The only unforgivible sin the bible talks about is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost...I dunno about suicide being "unforgivible". Though, it is kind of like murder...hmmm

Originally posted by theshadowknows
The only unforgivible sin the bible talks about is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost...I dunno about suicide being "unforgivible". Though, it is kind of like murder...hmmm

what about what gibson was saying, that 'the holy ghost looks favorably upon this [the passion of christ] film', does that qualify as blasphemous?

Originally posted by JustAnIllusion
God forgives everything. But you have to pray and repent for forgiveness. If you commit suicide, you have commited murder, and you cannot repent because your dead. So, shouldnt you go to hell if you commit suicide?

Just something I wondered about...

If you commit suicide then you go to hell because you commited a sin and didnt ask for forgiveness from God.

Out,
Russian

i always thought suicide and hell were lumped together to stop killing yourself becoming fashionable amongst slaves.

i think suicide and hell were lumped together because its bad to kill urself. maybe, jsut maybe?

Originally posted by JustAnIllusion
God forgives everything. But you have to pray and repent for forgiveness. If you commit suicide, you have commited murder, and you cannot repent because your dead. So, shouldnt you go to hell if you commit suicide?

Just something I wondered about...

That would be very human logics. If a person lives through hell on Earth, and in the end sees no possibility out of the mess he's in and commit suicide, this should be counted as their last stroke against him. Nobody takes their own life unless there is something else behind it. We will all be ressurrected and stand before God in the End of Days. Then we will be judged according to our sins. Dying is not a sin. Being killed is neither a sin. It isn't always the person holding the sword who kills, but the one giving him orders to kill, or the person(s) or circumastance(s) leading to such a killing. It wouldn't amaze me if Judas Iscariot is the name of the twelvth cornerstone of the Golden Cube.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

"I felt myself moving through this tunnel at a very fast rate. I saw a light at the end of the tunnel and was wondering if this is where I was going. I didn’t know if I was dead or alive at that point, but I do recall looking back at myself passed out on the kitchen floor and I lay there completely oblivious to this other part of me which seemed to be heading towards something. "Is this what death is?" I wondered. "No!" came an answer from somewhere."

This is the effect of DMT being released in the brain uppon death. This drug is the most common drug in the world, and one of the heaviest hallucinogens you can make. You can make it out of your lawn. I wouldn't use so called near death experiences to explain Heaven and Hell. It is merely a hallucination. God is the Love that brings you back to life again, not the high you get when you die. When the light fades, you find yourself in the Unseen (called Hell in the King James Version btw) and there you must remain until God rise you up on the Last Day. There are no dead people in Heaven, only living people. The dead are in Hades or translated into English: The Unseen State. This is where Abraham's mansion is. It isn't Heaven, but a safe haven in the Unseen.....

Blessings,
Mikromarius

i had someone close to me who was responsible for his own death,but he didnt commit suicide,not intentionally anyway,he had reached a point in his life where if what he did cost him his life then it cost him his life.

some people reach a place where nothing hurts and nothing matters but at the same time everything hurts and everything matters.

these are the people you are calling weak but whats so strong about holding someones head whose had his legs blown off,its not your legs is it,doctors,nurses and paramedics deal with it everyday,get over it.

i carried a wounded guy 3 miles once and before we got him to safety we managed to drop a wall on his wounded legs,i dont have nightmares about it,makes me smile,i can still here him swearing.
is suicide bad?

suicide is just a word that describes you being responsible for your own death.

i think my brother will be happier in death than he was when he was alive but i think its selfish to say his death was bad for me.

Originally posted by JustAnIllusion
God forgives everything. But you have to pray and repent for forgiveness. If you commit suicide, you have commited murder, and you cannot repent because your dead. So, shouldnt you go to hell if you commit suicide?

Just something I wondered about...

Yes you go to hell

As you wish........................................................................
........................................................................
........................................................................
Make wiser choices........................................................................

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 21-2-2004 by Hamilton]

heres my personal opinion. your life is Gods gift to you. killing yourself is like refusing Gods gift to you. therefor you would go to hell because its too late to ask for forgiveness and you denied Gods present to you. there was a girl at my school who tried to kill herself with an overdose of somn.

Also one must look into the definition of suicide. Yes we all think of the typical ways that its done, but what about drug addiction? or smoking?

You know that it will kill you, yet you keep doing it, shortening your life. If you eat unhealthy you chances of a heart attack surge. Isnt this a form of suicide? Wonder how God would deal with a Chris Farley? I mean, he commited suicide, as far as I'm concerned. He was obese and overdosed. His overstressed heart couldnt take it. Does he get purgatory?

Which by the way, is what christianity says. Its not hell for suicide. Its purgatory. Worse than hell. Eternal waiting with your thoughts. "what dreams may come" is a great book, mediocre movie, but it paints a good picture of what the afterlife of a suicide victim might be.

If someone has a really bad life, and I mean REALLY bad, like war, seeing your whole family die in front of your eyes, you live for years in detention camp, then get transfered to refugee camp, no job, no future. If such person decides to commit suicide, I seriously doubt they will go to hell.
If I were God, I would forgive them and give them peace. I think that way even though I am limited by the evil within, the evil that exist in every human. If I can forgive, then a God of Love, the pure Light of Love, can most certainly do it too.

It's a permanent solution to temporary problems.....unless your doing it to prevent yourself from suffering or being a burden to others. My belief is that if you kill your self, you just have to relive it all over again till you live out the incarnation as it was intended to be lived out...so you may as well live it through the first time and get it done...I have actually prevented two suicides with this theory...and I honestly believe it

I have read most of the posts, and I agree with Amuk (to some degree). I have been to the point that most of the people I know, I would expect them to attempt suicide. I have had a messed up life, and I won't go into it on these boards.

I would think that suicide by someone who is mentally ill (including moderate to severe depression) would be unforgivable by your 'god'. (note that I have a different view of what 'god' is, but I'm trying to keep that out of the subject, thus I state 'your god'... don't get offended). Suiciding for any other reason is simply weak minded, i.e. your GF dumps you (5 years, and she moved away on me... I'm still here, lol... friend's 'wife' was cheating on him, and left him after 6 years... he's still here). Suiciding because you cannot function without the aide of others, and you are becoming a burden on society and you feel that you are taking more than you have given in this lifetime, I'd have to say that's a toss-up for the forgiveness factor.

Committing suicide not only takes away from you living, and possible good to come to you, but it hurts all those around you. I have seen suicides BECAUSE of suicides! It's sad to think that someone kills themselves because they feel that they cannot go on without something else in their lives, and I do believe it to be a weakness. Actually, I think that taking your life in such circumstances is not only weak, but SELFISH!!! You are taking away from others... stealing! And, just for the thread's question, 'your god' would definitly see stealing as a BAD THING, and you would thus be condemned for sure!

I, personally, have always held on to this one thing when I hit bottom (and get bounced off if the bottom repeatedly): I am going to stay on this earth as long as I possibly can, if for no other reason than to piss off all those who have wished me dead! Now, I wonder how forgiveable THAT is by god? Living just for the sake of revenge? Living, not to TAKE revenge, but living just to be vegefull BY living life? Hey... it's my motivation, and I have lived a life of taking 2 steps forward, only to get pushed back by one (and recently, taking 100 steps forward, and getting pushed back by 97!!! At least I'm a bit ahead, even if it took me 5 years to get almost back to where I was! And people think I'm a pessimist, LMAO!!!). Another thing I do (and don't condone, especially in situations like mine) is to use 'Nature's Gifts' (can't say specifically, due to board rules) to help me see that path that wanders outside of the box of reality so that I can realize that the reality that I WAS living isn't the only reality open for me. Actually, I do condone the use of 'Nature's Gifts', because it doesn't take intake of substances to make you realize that there are different paths... all it takes is a good friend, even if that friend is yourself... we all have split personalities, and all you have to do is listen to that 'other you' to realize that there is a path that ends, and with it's ending comes the beginning of an unexpected (and forced) path for others to take, that isn't very pleasant, and definitly unwanted.

I'll pitch in my two cents, if only to hear the chime at the bottom of the pan. I think the moment before suicide is actually a very powerful transformative moment. It is one that can be used to turn a whole life around.

It goes something like this: The moment you decided to commit suicide, you believe that your life is worthless, for whatever reason. The operative word is worthless. It's not just that you have some biological imbalance, or that you're really sad, but at that moment in time, you also decide your life is worthless. No meaning. So you're going to take it.

But, consider, if your life has no meaning, then you can do whatever you want with it. Therein lies the ultimate potential. Because your life has no meaning to you (you were going to take a moment ago), why not give it to others, by volunteering. You could join something like AmericaCorp, or help out at a food kitchen. Those that argue still have the ego to defend and hence a will to live. Those that don't, well, might as well enrich others instead of wasting their life. That's how I see it.

Originally posted by panchovilla
those who said that you are weak if committ suicide do not know WTF you are talking about.

emotional pain is just the same as physical pain so if think of sick people is alright and not those suffering from emotional pain.

I completely agree. In addition I think it's extremely cruel to spout out a blanket statement such as "people who commit suicide are weak and we're pretty much better off without 'em". Keeping in mind this isn't an accurate quote but that's the message that comes across to me.

Amuk,

You have NO idea what goes through these peoples minds OR what kinds of Hell they have had to live through. How dare you call people in serious emotional pain 'weak' !!! I find this attitude extremely arrogant and most often held among those who have life fairly easy.which makes it all the more repulsive, not to mention offensive.

This clueless idea that everybody, if they tried hard enough could have it as easy and wonderful as you do pisses me off seriously.

What do you say to the person who has had absolutely EVERYTHING go wrong that can go wrong in his life, in spite of whatever he has done to try to correct that ? Well, knowing your basic type I would say that you would spout more of the blanket "there are no excuses....blah blah blah".

I'm sorry if this is flaming, but I see this attitude every single day towards the invisible poor who are kept invisible at best and derided the rest of the time simply for their unhappiness at being poor. And no, I am not saying that simply being poor is a reason for committing suicide, what I AM saying is that I can fully understand how having every single door closed in your face because you are poor, even the door to FOOD and WATER, could finally make a person succumb. The world (as we have seen from your post) is incredibly cruel to the poor.

Back to the topic at hand:

IMO, I doubt very much that any loving God/Goddess would condemn someone to Hell for committing suicide. I believe that those who commit suicide are actually surrounded with extra love and beauty, in order to heal from the extremely painful life they just escaped from.

Suicide occurs when the pain outweighs one's ability to cope with the pain.

That's all it is.

What God's view of suicide is, I don't know. However, it's a tragic thing that has nothing to do with the strength of one's will. If more people understood the definition of suicide as described above, more people would seek help.

Many people who have committed suicide seemed perfectly normal and happy right up until the act. Something within them was so painful and they could not express themselves to anyone that the only way out was death.