Ask a Christian (even about the paranormal)

Originally posted by TechnoFan21
Yeah. Well, apparently, you seem to say that I have some kind of psychological problem. Thanks.

No, that's not what I said at all. Apologies if that's what you heard. Again, the internet tries to tell us who we are...but you have to ask yourself "who is the internet? Under what authority does the person who wrote those things saying this?" If God says "you're psychic" then you are psychic. If the internet says you're psychic then see the previously mentioned questions.

Originally posted by TechnoFan21
Why do you say this?

You can trust in this without fail. We're all evil without God, your conscious was right to tell you this, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," - Romans 3:23 but you know and have acknowledged that Christ died for you to pay the penalty for all your sins past, present and future. "I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life." - John 6:47. Notice it doesn't say "will have" or "should have" but rather "has". Maybe we'll meet up after all this is over

. Until then, may God continue to bless.

Because it is true.

Originally posted by TechnoFan21
No. You don't understand. I had God. I did. But I still did not feel like everything was kosher until that one night.

You're right that I could not fully understand what you have and are going through anymore than you could fully understand what I have and am going through. Based upon what you have said, it sounded like at this moment you are a believer in Christ as your saviour (thus are saved) and that you believe you have been given a gift from God (which as I said has happened in the past both Biblically and personally). If this assessment is way off the mark then so be it, I was merely answering the question that was directed to me.

[edit on 28-5-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by NephraTari
I am sorry. I wish I could help you.

I'm in no need of help at this time.

Originally posted by NephraTari
Your programming goes deep.

Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto.

Originally posted by NephraTari
You say your title is not self appointed and yet you state that an entity that you cannot prove exists gave it to you.

Why do I need to prove God exists? I've already received my proof.

Originally posted by NephraTari
If the day ever comes when you want to know real truth.

You're a few decades too late, I'm afraid.

Originally posted by NephraTari
I will be happy to share the reality of the god you are serving.

Thanks, but I already know and live in it.

Originally posted by NephraTari
There is a divinity in existence but what organized religion leads people to believe is false.

Ah, all organized religion is false is it? How did that happened? Does that mean if someone believes what you do it is also false? Both of you surely are 'organized' in thinking the same thing. This is an illogical assumpton, is it not?

Originally posted by NephraTari
if that day comes for you. I will be here. I will help you when you want to know the truth.

Is this where we're supposed to bicker about who is right? I don't play those games. This is serious.

Anyway, this was intended to be a positive thread, so for those who genuinely have questions, by all means feel free to ask.

[edit on 28-5-2008 by saint4God]

Keep up the great work saint4God! I love the way you stay cool under fire. What do you think about the catholic priest who gave that wild and crazy sermon at Trinity church? In my mind he was saying that we are all responsible for what our great great grandfathers did. That's not biblical is it? I know there are some black communities who believe you carry the curse of your ancestors. Maybe that is why the crowd there went so wild. I think they would like to think of us as cursed. Obama resigned the church after that. I guess we are supposed to believe that for the past 20 years, every time anti-America and anti-White was screamed from the pulpit that he and his wife were the only members in that church who shook their heads and said "no that's just not right". Well this may be too poilitical for this thread, sorry.


[edit on 2-6-2008 by Bumbeni]

Originally posted by Bumbeni
Keep up the great work saint4God! I love the way you stay cool under fire.

Thank you! I try my best to remember how Christ taught: with patience, understanding and compassion.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
What do you think about the catholic priest who gave that wild and crazy sermon at Trinity church?

Hm, I may need a link to that.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
In my mind he was saying that we are all responsible for what our great great grandfathers did. That's not biblical is it?

Can I say "kind of"? Here's two verses that say in a way yes:

"To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."

To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.

It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.

By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return." - Genesis 3:16 - 19

(speaking of God here)
"Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation." -from Exodus 34:7

Let's put this into perspective. Do you think that the son of a wife-abusing father is more likely to abuse their spouse when they grow up as opposed to the son who's father treated his wife with a kind, gentle hand?

HOWEVER! Apparently we're not entirely subject to 'fate':

"I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them." - Mark 3:28

We have to ask ourselves: Which am I, a slave to fate or free from chains by Christ's forgiveness?

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I know there are some black communities who believe you carry the curse of your ancestors. Maybe that is why the crowd there went so wild. I think they would like to think of us as cursed.

I think there are way too many assumptions made about any racial community. Our history in the United States goes like this: A race comes or is brought here, is forced to work very hard to get mere bread, over generations many of those families are successful growing out of that though some never do. For example, the Irish community in the early 1900's. Then the Italian and Polish communities. Then African. They all have this in common. When they were new, they were heavily beat upon, picked on, discriminated against and denied opportunities. All of their struggles were harder to overcome than those who were born simply "well off". President Lincoln made a promise to the freed slaves that he wasn't able to keep. President Polk gave a military order to conduct imperialistic genocide against Native Americans. The Chinese were forced to work all day on the Pacific railroad. Scandanavians were pushed into ore mining in the north, 12 hours a day for cabbage soup. Our county was built upon sweat and blood of many who only wanted their freedom to succeed or fail in society. None of us in this country were born of royalty else we wouldn't be here. We've screwed up the past in many regards. Let's learn from it and make sure we don't screw up the present. Ladies and Gentlemen, prejudice is STILL happening! One quarter of this continental country of ours used to belong to Mexico.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
Obama resigned the church after that. I guess we are supposed to believe that for the past 20 years, every time anti-America and anti-White was screamed from the pulpit that he and his wife were the only members in that church who shook their heads and said "no that's just not right". Well this may be too poilitical for this thread, sorry.

No holds barred here . If it's a questions for a believer, I think it's fine. None of us are in Obama's shoes. I think we all have the right to make up our own mind about what someone else says. I know my pastor has said a thing or two that caused me to raise an eyebrow. If my pastor said "G*d D* America" I would walk away and never come back. But, I don't think Obama will turn America into a Communist State if he were to become president because of it. The president doesn't really run the government, they're the talking head. It's a position that was created to make us feel we have an affect on the government as individuals. Indeed we can affect government, but not in this way as I see it. We're a capitalistic nation. Track the dollar and all answers come from it. In some cases that's good, in some case not so much...but I can say that I am grateful for being here. I've heard many people confuse "God Bless America" with "I love America" but they're two different phrases entirely. The former is asking God to please keep watch and care, for if left to ourselves, surely we'd fall apart.

[edit on 3-6-2008 by saint4God]

About that alien questions i say this in the newspaper the other day


The Vatican has now given the all-clear for Catholics to believe in life beyond our planet.They say "Do not limit God's creativity". The Rev. Jose Gabriel Funes, Jesuit Director of the Vatican Observatory stated in an interview that our universe is too big to rule out "additional forms of life even, intelligent ones."


In an interview called "The Extraterrestrial Is My Brother" published in the Vatican newspaper (L'Osservatore Romano) Funes explained that ruling out the existence of aliens would be like "putting limits" on God's creative freedom. He also assured doubters that it doesn't contradict with their faith as Aliens could be among God's creatures.

So do Aliens have to be Christians as well? What if the aliens are Jewish? Or believers in Eckankar? Is there an Alien heaven? I just hope this means that all Sunday schools have to add little alien children to the "hands across the world" murals. It's only a matter of time before the CBC starts airing commercials for galactic cruisers for missionaries in space, just like South Parks "Starvin' Marvin in Space." Maybe Mary Doria Russell's The Sparrow, about Jesuits making first contact with extraterrestrial intelligences, was more prophetic than anyone realized? [AP]

*edit post out*

[edit on 10-6-2008 by mysterychicken]

Regarding the article, Catholics have the right to decide what to believe as a community just as I have the right to decide as an individual. I can say regarding the church I'm a member of, we have a lot of similiarities and also have our differences. For some reason, they accept me as a member anyway

Originally posted by Grim Shroud
So do Aliens have to be Christians as well?

I don't see why they would have to.

Originally posted by Grim Shroud
What if the aliens are Jewish?

Then they'd be Jewish.

Originally posted by Grim Shroud
Or believers in Eckankar?

Who?

Originally posted by Grim Shroud
Is there an Alien heaven?

There's a suggestion in the Bible that there's one heaven with many 'rooms'. I'd be interested in finding out though.

Originally posted by Grim Shroud
I just hope this means that all Sunday schools have to add little alien children to the "hands across the world" murals.

Hehe. Seriously though, this brings up an interesting point. Notice in 50's sci-fi aliens were the badboys we were supposed to fear? Then in the 80's we're touching fingers with them and helping them get home. Quite a change of attitude in 30 years, huh?

Originally posted by Grim Shroud
It's only a matter of time before the CBC starts airing commercials for galactic cruisers for missionaries in space,

No doubt if there were extra-terrestrial life with the ability to reason/choose there would be missions to go and tell the good news if they haven't heard already.

Originally posted by Grim Shroud
Maybe Mary Doria Russell's The Sparrow, about Jesuits making first contact with extraterrestrial intelligences, was more prophetic than anyone realized?

Although I haven't read it, Biblically those who were close to God were permissioned to get a 'sneak peek' at what exists beyond then report back to us.

[edit on 10-6-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


Obviously we are dealing with faith (and not fact) but at the risk of engaging in specualtion and conjecture I'd like to ask you:

1 Do you not think organised religon does mankind a great disservice by separating it into warring/feuding cults?

2 Due to a complete lack of any kind of evidence whatsoever, would you not concede that Eskimo religion,Polynesian relgion or even Viking religion has exactly the same feasibiltiy,credibiltiy and plausibility as any of the Abrahamic faiths?

3 Do you think preachers deluding followers into beleiving that they are somehow more special/chosen/superior to others is an inherent,inevitable aspect of organised relgion and ,if so, do you think this trait is an acceptable and responsible thing to do in today's civilised society?

Thanks Karl

Originally posted by karl 12
Obviously we are dealing with faith (and not fact)but at the risk of engaging in specualtion and conjecture

Yes, but we can use history as a template. Take for example the missionaries who ventured into the early americas. I never disbarred speculation and conjecture from the discussion and actually find it quite useful exploring some 'what if' scenarios when there's a possibility or learning involved.

Originally posted by karl 12
I'd like to ask you:

1 Do you not think organised religon does mankind a great disservice by separating it into warring/feuding cults?

I agree it is a great disservice. War is intentionally not part of the New Testament. Feuding is pointless. Discussion and teaching can be helpful.

Originally posted by karl 12
2 Due to a complete lack of any kind of evidence whatsoever, would you not concede that Eskimo religion,Polynesian relgion or even Viking religion has exactly the same feasibiltiy,credibiltiy and plausibility as any of the Abrahamic faiths?

No because the assumption here is that Abrahamic faith has a lack of evidence. Since I'd received my evidence, I cannot deny that I have it.

Originally posted by karl 12
3 Do you think preachers deluding followers into beleiving that they are somehow more special/chosen/superior to others is an inherent,inevitable aspect of organised relgion

It is a trap one could fall into, just like any other sin. Fact is, Christians are not superior or more special for "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". The difference is they accept Christ as their saviour and lord.

Originally posted by karl 12
and ,if so, do you think this trait is an acceptable and responsible thing to do in today's civilised society?

I think there are more harmful sins against society than arrogance, but do think it is irresponsible. Irresponsible is a good word for it because a person being arrogant will tend to shift the blame or feel above the wrongdoing. Humility does the opposite. It accepts personal responsibility and understands that we're flawed.

Originally posted by karl 12
Thanks Karl

Sure thing. Good, tough questions.

reply to post by saint4God


If god tells you you're psychic, you're not psychic, but schizophrenic.

Seriously - hearing voices is not a good thing, as it usually ends up with the victim grabbing a rifle and climbing the nearest clock-tower to appease the voices, or something just as awful.

Originally posted by dave420
If god tells you you're psychic, you're not psychic, but schizophrenic.

So you're both a Christian and a psychaitrist? Where did you get your PhD?

Originally posted by dave420
Seriously - hearing voices is not a good thing,

Psychic doesn't mean "hearing voices".

Originally posted by dave420
as it usually ends up with the victim grabbing a rifle and climbing the nearest clock-tower to appease the voices, or something just as awful.

Ah yes, how many times have I done this since I heard God's voice? Not once. In fact, a lot of anger and violence has left me since becoming a believer. It's a dramatic change really, all that paranoia, fear, angst, and so forth literally disappeared. If one has an inclination towards violence because of a voice then one has to question exactly who's voice that is. It appears you haven't heard a voice before, hence the fear in others who claim they have.

[edit on 10-6-2008 by saint4God]

Hey Christian Dude,
I have a few questions. How do you reconcile the Old testament God with the New Testament God?? In the Old Testament God is picking sides, flooding the earth and sparing only 1 family, killing armies including the women and children, and setting up hundreds of rules that cant be kept.

The new testament God is Infinitely merciful, Love, Compassion, and doesnt pick sides.

Wouldnt a perfect, all knowing, all powerful, Omni-Present God know that instilling hundreds of unkeepable spiritual laws would be impossible for mankind???? Wouldn't he know the after the Flood the earth would be repopulated and evil would be just a prevelant as usual, if not more so???

It seems to be such a paradox between Old Testament and New, of course Jesus came and changed everything. But if God never changes, then he's just as full of wrath, selective, undecisive in the NT as the OT.

It's as if in the OT he was growing and learning from us to as he went on and made decisions, prophets argued/wrestled with him to change his mind. That doesnt seem like an aspect of all knowing.

So technically, if Jesus is the only way, thats unfair to those who came before Jesus who couldnt keep all the laws and especially during the time the temple was destroyed and they couldnt make sacrifices.

But thats just the Jews......where are American Indians, Hindus, Eskimos, Asians, and the rest of the worldly cultrues at this time??? They didnt know Jesusu so before he came and many times after...so they're in hell????

Originally posted by dominicus
Hey Christian Dude,

Cool opening, thanks

Originally posted by dominicus
I have a few questions. How do you reconcile the Old testament God with the New Testament God?? In the Old Testament God is picking sides, flooding the earth and sparing only 1 family, killing armies including the women and children, and setting up hundreds of rules that cant be kept.

The new testament God is Infinitely merciful, Love, Compassion, and doesnt pick sides.

This is a very good question because a lot of people see God as having two different sides from the Old Testament versus the New. I think it would be easier to approach it as the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. In the old promise, we promised to obey God's rules, to keep them because we loved Him. Problem was the love for Him was replaced with love for our own wants/desires and not obeying the law was the result, not the cause of saddeninng God. The Old Testament is full of God's mercy. We even bargained with Him:

"Then Abraham spoke up again: "Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city because of five people?"
"If I find forty-five there," he said, "I will not destroy it."

Once again he spoke to him, "What if only forty are found there?"
He said, "For the sake of forty, I will not do it." - Genesis 18:27-29

It's not because God is easy to negotiate with, it's because God could see Abraham loved his fellow people and did not want to see them destroyed.

God's wrath is aplenty in the New Testament as well. Jesus talking here:

"But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him." - Luke 12:5

So...what's different? What changed? The answer is since Christ paid the debt of our sin, we can be free of that wrath by accepting Him as the one who paid it (our saviour). The Old Covenant seems so foreign to us since then because this gift seems like we're not doing enough, that we're not earning our way to heaven. The Bible says we can't earn our way because we're all sinners. So, I suppose one could try to obey all of God's laws of the Old Testament and try to do everything according to the command of Moses, then be judged according to it knowing full well we can't do it all, or accept Christ as the one who fulfilled the law completely and accept forgiveness from God because of what Jesus had done for us.

Originally posted by dominicus
Wouldnt a perfect, all knowing, all powerful, Omni-Present God know that instilling hundreds of unkeepable spiritual laws would be impossible for mankind????

That very well could've been the point. We have to trust God though, that He is as just and fair as the Bible says He is when it comes to those who were under the law.

Originally posted by dominicus
Wouldn't he know the after the Flood the earth would be repopulated and evil would be just a prevelant as usual, if not more so???

Probably. But this time we had recorded and some had seen what happened. A good way to see how quickly we forget the lesson. But, let's also remember the positive. The world has known many great followers of God since then.

Originally posted by dominicus
It seems to be such a paradox between Old Testament and New, of course Jesus came and changed everything. But if God never changes, then he's just as full of wrath, selective, undecisive in the NT as the OT.

Ooh, where does it say undecisive? God never broke a promise. We did. Remember that it was God who taught us forgiveness, so to say He's full of wrath is to deny Him of the lesson He Himself taught us. Regarding selectivity, yes, He is and has the right just as you have the right to choose what fruits you want from your garden.

Originally posted by dominicus
It's as if in the OT he was growing and learning from us to as he went on and made decisions, prophets argued/wrestled with him to change his mind. That doesnt seem like an aspect of all knowing.

Ah, is God static or dynamic? Does He grow and learn? Don't know. But, remember that "with God nothing is impossible" so if He chooses to forget something or not know something He can:

"Know this: God has even forgotten some of your sin.

"Can you fathom the mysteries of God?
Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?" - Job 11:6-7

What? God forgets?

Originally posted by dominicus
So technically, if Jesus is the only way, thats unfair to those who came before Jesus who couldnt keep all the laws and especially during the time the temple was destroyed and they couldnt make sacrifices.

Do you believe that God is unfair?

Originally posted by dominicus
But thats just the Jews......where are American Indians, Hindus, Eskimos, Asians, and the rest of the worldly cultrues at this time??? They didnt know Jesusu so before he came and many times after...so they're in hell????

"Does God pervert justice? Does the Almighty pervert what is right?" - Job 8:3

Great questions...and it's been a long time since I was able to quote Job.

[edit on 13-6-2008 by saint4God]

The only way that I could think of God being fair to all the other races that came before Jesus or didnt know Jesus is for God to judge them according to the religion/spiritual beliefs they did have in place of Christianity.

ANother thing is as far as sending people to hell for not choosing Jesus and living in their sinful ways.......that doesnt seem fair for those people especially since many of them were born into broken homes, molested by parents, foster homes, drugs, biased upbringings ...u get the idea...basically the "devil" had them since day one.......

....so with what I just said in mind, (for the sake of the argument and hypothetically speaking) if I was God and I was getting ready to create all that exists, humans, animals, universes, etc...... if I knew that even one of the people/souls that I created would have to go to hell and be cut off from me for all of eternity, then I wouldnt have created creation.

You see what I'm saying????? I wouldnt do it if I had to lose one because even though I would gain a bunch that do love me, I would lose hundreds of times that, those who hated or never wanted anything to do with me. Such a toll wouldnt be worth creating all of this.

ANother thing is that I didnt ask to be born or I didnt ask to be created, especially to be born into sin to and take on sin from adam and eve...thats not fair to me. I didnt get the choice in the garden they way they did. Now maybe if each individual got to start in the garden and those who did good stayed and those who choose bad, came down here. Still much unfairness can be argued here.

and I dont think you can use the "who are you to question God" spiel or the whole we cant understand the mind of God. Yes thats a given but its natural to question God especially when one wants to get to know him or is seeking answers or arguments to these views.

There were some early gnostic christian groups of whom all of them believed the God of the OT was a demiurge (or a lesser God)...or that there were a few of them, like Jehova was a demi, and Yahweh was a demi, and Elohim was a Demi...that these were part of the counsel of God and were out to do the work of God...but not necessarily God himself. That does make allot of sense, because since Jesus was necessary to come for all or sins, he coulda came right after adam & even so all those people before 1 a.d. could have the chance to know him.

And Jesus would have never had to say anything about the demiurges when he did come because that would have been a long mess and the jews would have used that against him and he was changing everything around anyway so none of the was relevant anyway....like we're all here for a blink of an eye so people will find out the OT was all demiurges when they passaway!!!!

Now what do you say about pre-existence? The majority of Christianity does not believe in this, however there are minority Christian groups that do believe in pre-existence. Also what would you say if I have also remembered existeing prior to this earthly existence??? That sure would put a loop in your rope proverbially speaking.

You see the thing is in Christianity there are all these theologically agreed on by the majority group "views" on every single detail from big to small. But that doesnt mean that what the majority of Christianity deems is "right" really is "right." For example pre-existence, which the majortiy view is wrong....could actualy be right giving the minority Christian groups a plus 1 point on that argument You see what I mean???? ANd of course I'm speaking of having every argument backed by scripture of coure. Pre-existentialists also use scripture to back up pre-existence...and then of course you use the methods of keeping in context, of the whole paragrpah, whole chapter, whole book, using other supportive scriptures to pont at the argumet your supporting....but I'm saying there are minority groups that can do this satisfactorily and still be deemed wrong by the majority even though they really are right.

I have many more things to bring up here, and this will be fun because at the end of all this I will reveal what my politically corrct label is i.e. my beleief or might I say my unbelief system.....mmmmmwahahahaha time will show.

Originally posted by dominicus
The only way that I could think of God being fair

Aha! Methinks we've found the problem. If one trusts God is good and God is fair, He is a being that will prove your trust was right. If you do not trust God is good and God is fair, there's no opportunity for Him to do so. Even if He did 1 good thing, there's still that mistrust that He may not be fair. If He did 10, 100, or 1,000,000 there's still that doubt.

Originally posted by dominicus
You see what I'm saying?????

Yep, you're not alone. A lot of us ask the same questions and have the same feelings. Myself included.

Originally posted by dominicus
ANother thing is that I didnt ask to be born or I didnt ask to be created,

True, so the least you could do is give thanks for that

Originally posted by dominicus
especially to be born into sin to and take on sin from adam and eve...thats not fair to me.

So you're saying you would've made a different decision than Adam? Do you live a sinless life otherwise?

Originally posted by dominicus
and I dont think you can use the "who are you to question God" spiel or the whole we cant understand the mind of God. Yes thats a given but its natural to question God especially when one wants to get to know him or is seeking answers or arguments to these views.

I hope I've never said "who are you to question God" nor implied it. I think we were created to ask questions, grow, learn and become closer to Him through understanding. Question away. In fact, question Him directly. He gives much better answers than I do.

Originally posted by dominicus
There were some early gnostic christian groups

Christian was before 'gnostic', historically speaking.

Originally posted by dominicus
of whom all of them believed the God of the OT was a demiurge (or a lesser God)...or that there were a few of them, like Jehova was a demi, and Yahweh was a demi, and Elohim was a Demi...that these were part of the counsel of God and were out to do the work of God...but not necessarily God himself. That does make allot of sense, because since Jesus was necessary to come for all or sins, he coulda came right after adam & even so all those people before 1 a.d. could have the chance to know him.

A study into Zooastrianism may help answer the 'how' on this happening, but it isn't Biblical and it was after the events of the New Testament.

Originally posted by dominicus
And Jesus would have never had to say anything about the demiurges when he did come because that would have been a long mess and the jews would have used that against him and he was changing everything around anyway so none of the was relevant anyway....like we're all here for a blink of an eye so people will find out the OT was all demiurges when they passaway!!!!

You're welcomed to believe as you wish, though this is something other than the Bible. If it is something other than the Bible, then it isn't Christian.

Originally posted by dominicus
Now what do you say about pre-existence? The majority of Christianity does not believe in this, however there are minority Christian groups that do believe in pre-existence. Also what would you say if I have also remembered existeing prior to this earthly existence??? That sure would put a loop in your rope proverbially speaking.

Nothing is impossible with God, though I don't see any mention about it. My questions would be: What did you remember? What triggered you to remember? And why do you believe we all forget it?

Originally posted by dominicus
You see the thing is in Christianity there are all these theologically agreed on by the majority group "views" on every single detail from big to small. But that doesnt mean that what the majority of Christianity deems is "right" really is "right." For example pre-existence, which the majortiy view is wrong....could actualy be right giving the minority Christian groups a plus 1 point on that argument You see what I mean????

Truth isn't decided upon by consensus. It doesn't matter what the 'popular vote' thinks.

Originally posted by dominicus
ANd of course I'm speaking of having every argument backed by scripture of coure.

That's good and I think we should look at those too to establish a base.

Originally posted by dominicus
Pre-existentialists also use scripture to back up pre-existence...and then of course you use the methods of keeping in context, of the whole paragrpah, whole chapter, whole book, using other supportive scriptures to pont at the argumet your supporting....but I'm saying there are minority groups that can do this satisfactorily and still be deemed wrong by the majority even though they really are right.

I'm all ears

Originally posted by dominicus
I have many more things to bring up here, and this will be fun because at the end of all this I will reveal what my politically corrct label is i.e. my beleief or might I say my unbelief system.....mmmmmwahahahaha time will show.

Feel free to do so. I don't like to label anyone except myself.

[edit on 24-6-2008 by saint4God]

Hi T ----------- Did you get my u2u last week? Haven't heard from you, hope everything is good. My son has gone off the deep end, happens about this same time every year. Anyone who reads this, would you say a little prayer for KENT, that he finds his way back to peace? I know the power that prayer can yield. Thankyou.

Originally posted by Bombeni
Hi T ----------- Did you get my u2u last week?

I didn't, sorry. I went on vacation for a week and came back to find there's no way for me to get to U2U.

Originally posted by Bombeni
Haven't heard from you, hope everything is good.

Work got very stressful as of late, but it's starting to return to normal. Yep, all is good.

Originally posted by Bombeni
My son has gone off the deep end, happens about this same time every year. Anyone who reads this, would you say a little prayer for KENT, that he finds his way back to peace?

Certainly and it's awesome to hear you're reaching out to get everyone's help in prayer.

Originally posted by Bombeni
I know the power that prayer can yield. Thankyou.

Same here, I'm sure God has more miracles in store as well. I'm not sure what to do about the U2U situation...would you be able to U2U JungleJake and ask about it? Or maybe a mod monitoring the thread can help?

Ok,
So for example Jesus is preaching on the beattitudes...and pretty much everything he was saying....was said to non-crhistians and sinners. So when he said the Kingdom of God is within you, blessed are the poor in spirit, and so on and so forth...

Now all these things he spoke ring true of everyone he spoke them to even though they were not yet "Christians." So when he told others that the Kingdom of Heaven is within you....he was saying that that is true of everyone everywhere. A child in africa, a grandmother in eskimo village alaska, a tribesmen in peru who never heard and never will of Jesus and the Bible.

SO you see....he was pointing out Universal spiritual truth that covers everyone even if they're not Christians...because there were no Christians yet when Jesus was preaching cause he hadn't died on the cross yet.
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As far as pre-existence.......Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you. Before you came forth out of the womb, I sanctified you....."

Yeah in context this is a prophet were speaking of so there is a "special advantage over others"...you can argue....you can also say that it's because God is omnipotent that he knew...and many other things.

But you can also argue that this points to pre-existence.....which is prevalent in the beleif systems of religions around the world.

Hypnotists around the world have discovered that people the are easily hypnotized can revert back to a time of pre-existence and preparedness to come to earth. And these are people of different religious backgrounds including Christians, gender, age, culture, geographical location......it didnt matter...people remembered a pre-existence.

As far as I go....I just remembered being pure consciousness...no body...more of an invisible colorless cloud.... and speaking with 2-3 other consciousnesses about comming down to earth. I really didnt want to come here...but the agreement was that it is necessary and that I will do good works and my existence here is for the betterment of all of infinity as is everyone else's.....kind of like an understanding that everysingle being, bug, dust particle, air molecule.....is part of this infinite divine tapestry. So hesitently I came to earth.

Now.....its not something I made up, or day dreamed...it was like deja-vu...it was like EUREKA !!!!! WOW !!!!! It happened real quik and I just knew that it was a glimpse of that time.

Now why dont we remember if pre-existence is true??? Well look at a baby....has no recollection of anything thats going on...perhaps they design of life includes the forgetting of pre-existence...or perhaps its a part of existence that non-of us are supposed to remember pre-existence. It could be any number of things....I just know what I remembered was real and it was a moment that I will never forget...unlike the billions of day-dreams and thoughts I've had that I dont remember 99% of them.
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Ok so according to the Bible...Jesus is an incarnation of God himself, and there is also the trinity....God as God... God as Jesus.....and God as the Holy Spirit. For this point....I will be speaking of God as God.

Now he is omnipresent....so there is nowhere that God isnt there. He is in Heaven and He is in Hell. Since we are all made up of atoms and these are vibrating little round quatum mechanical balls that vibrate and attract and repel off each other.....there is space inbetween these atoms and God is also there.

So God is within all things because all things on the physical plane are matter....atoms....particles...and space....and God engulfs space. So Gos is within all things and all people.

So when the Bible says that God knows the exact number of hair on your head, or where-ever a leaf falls he knows it....its because he is within all hairs and all leaves.

So we can say that Gos is experiencing every possible possibility on the physical plane...and every other plane that exists.....which then we can say the possibility that God is experiencing himself through existence. Technically this is all a huge experiment/game.

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Allot of what Buddha and Lao Tse (founder of Taoism) experienced and exressed is similar to allot of things Jesus taught. Can we really dismiss that Buddha and Tse did infact experience Enlightenment and God????

Christians will say yes.......but being that there are soooooo many similarities...an alternative theory could be that yes they did experience God and achieved all those spiritual things.....but since they came before Christ....then they experienced the fullness of God that a person could possibly experience before Christ came....and now that he did come....he brought an advanced form of experiencing God to the complete and utter fullness.

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The Bible is a combination of things.....Literal, poetry, symbology, commentary, advice, and so forth....but the problem is that the majority makes all of this into Literalism....when in fact it is not. Poetry is not literal and niether is symbology....and this is why we have fundamentalists and dogma because of literalism.

Now....why do I bring that up.....well because it reverts back to the fairness of God to people who never knew of Christ and of people from other religions.

When you look at Christian Monks and Christian spiritual experiencs....you get a certain number of universal experiences within Christianity. SOme of which are, the indwelling of the holy spirit, enlightenment, gifts from the spirit, speaking in tongues, illumination, dark night of the soul, and union with God.

Now the majority of these deep and on going experiences I have read to be comming from Monks and Christian Mystics. Why is that????? Well these 2 groups are spending all day long every day in prayer, meditation, fasting, scripture reading, and seeking God......so naturally these two groups will experience more spiritual and Godly experiences...then say a dogmatic fundamentalist who thinks everything is literal and goes to church only on sunday...judging and condemning to fire and brimstone everything and everyone in his path....or a holiday catholic who only goes to church on x-mas and easter....but has nothing to do with God and the church in the mean time.

Well the detailed descriptons of these Christian/Cathloic monks are the exact same descriptions of Muslem monks and muslem mystics...and buddhist mnks also claiming the indwelling of the spirit...and new agers also experiencing these same exepriences but just calling them by different names

part 2:

So these experiences are universal to many different religious groups...since most of them are praying directly to God and seeking God.

And the Christians say that Jesus said I am the truth, the light, and no one comes to the father except through me....

...so why would all these people from other religions be experiencing the exact experiences that hardcore super spiritual christians and x-tian monks are experiencing???

Perhaps because everyone's praying to the same God and this God is the same God that incarnated as Jesus.......so if some-one is not accepting Jesus in another part of the world....but does Love and accept God into their Lives....and since Jesus and God are one wether anyone believes so or not....Oh here we go again.. a universal truth whether anyone accepts it or not.


So technically that person would be save because by accepting the father and not the son....they're still accepting the son regardless because he is part of the father regardless.
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Jesus died for the sins of the world. Why would he die for the sins of the world knowing that not every person would accept this free gift???? If thats the case the Bible should have said that Jesus died for the sins of those who would accept him that he died for their sins...and that blanket statement would cover everybody who comes to christ.

But he died for the sins of the world which means EVERYBODY IS COVERED......whether they accept it or not...they're still technically covered by an UNIVERSAL TRUTH...all muslems, buddhists, athiests, are all covered by Jesus blood sacrifice for sins whether they know it or not.

So techinically.......you can figure out the rest.

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Adam and Evev didnt sin until they ate of the tree. It was the only rule at the time.....it was just one rule!!!!!!! They werent in a fallen state where everyday everyone's pretty much sinning, so it was much easieir for them because they were not in a fallen state, they only had one rule, they enjoyed the presence of God.

Give me that chance and that state of being....I bet you I wouldnt make that mistake!!!!! 1 rule in an unfallen state where they did not and would not sin unless that one rule was broken!!!!

And give everybody that chance first...thats what I call fair.

Now Jesus healed a paralytic and told him get up and sin no more. Implying that its possible to be here and sin no more.

Ever since I was typing this for the last 15-30 minutes both part 1 and part 2 I havent sinned....because I'm thinking about what to type, questions, comments, theories, intellectual and theological mind wrestling and I havent sinned in the past 30 minutes...because I havent thought of having sex....ooops...ok now I sinned.

But....you can go 2 seconds without sinning....and you can extend that window of time....you dont sin when you sleep either.....

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Man this stuff is deeper than oceans in infinity. We'll talk more after I hear your rebuutals and comments.

reply to post by saint4God



Hi, nice to "hear" from you, I too have been busy with work etc. Things going a little better with us. looks like we will pull through, again, God willing. Do you feel like you really know God? I know who He is, but not sure I really know Him and I want to get to know Him. I watched the movie "Abraham" the other night, with Richard Harris, and it occurred to me I don't know God very well. Abraham really sought to know Him, not just turning to Him in times of trouble. And Abraham loved Him more than life itself. Well I don't want to get too mushy here, but it is coming clear to me that a relationship with God is not just for our convenience, it takes some sacrifice and work to turn from the things that lead us away from Him. Well bye for now.