First, I would like to caution about judging whole groups, especially in using words like "dogmatic", "fundamentalist" and so forth. Also all
Christians do not believe the same exact details, nor all churches teach the exact line of thinking. They agree Jesus is the Christ who came from God
in the flesh. They should be teaching from the same Book, but from that point on, what isn't in the Bible varies as a form of speculation.
For example, even within a church you can ask a question like:
Is our life pre-destined? Or do we have the free will to choose God's love?
People within the church could respectfully debate the topic, both having scriptural support
or how about...
In 'end times', will we be raptured or will we see the tribulation in Revelation?
Again, a mixed bag both scripturally supported.
So what is the right answer? In both cases we'll find out. I believe we were not given the direct answer intentionally.
Originally posted by dominicus
As far as pre-existence.......Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you. Before you came forth out of the womb, I sanctified
At first look, I thought "yeah, the way this is worded suggests that perhaps we had an existence before the womb" however, checking another
translation, it says:
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." - Jeremiah 1:5
This one suggest we were created/formed in the womb. So which is it? Given only this verse, I'd say it's a tie or "too close to call". We'd
have to look at more to get a determination or clarification.
Originally posted by dominicus
Ok so according to the Bible...Jesus is an incarnation of God himself, and there is also the trinity....God as God... God as Jesus.....and God as the
Actually I'm not sure if you'd realized it, but you've made a point for pre-existence here. Since Jesus was around before he was born, one could
suggest that we were as well. The only issue I have with that is when Jesus says:
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" - John 8:58
So Jesus was saying he was around before Abraham. One could argue that Abraham came after Jesus without being born yet or that being born does not
mean being created. For me, we're back to square one again.
Regarding your personal experiences, thank you for sharing those. They stand on their own. I don't ever believe when hearing them that 'that
didn't happen'. I know some things happened to me that I did not understand or could not fully interpret, but know they happened. Figuring them
out is a great adventure in life.
Regarding hyptnotists, I once saw a show and my friend was called up. He was told he was a great guitarist (never touched one before in his life) and
placed different styles from classical to rock flawlessly. After the show, we asked him to try to play the songs and he couldn't play a note. He
described the experience as watching himself doing it but not knowing how it was done. The hyptnotist explained after the show that we experience
enough with our senses that our mind can use those experiences to make it up and make it work without inhibitions or normal consciousness getting in
the way. When a hyptnotist 'taps into' someone, I have to question what it is they're tapping into.
I like how you've incorporated science into your discussion. I'm a scientist myself so naturally it's pleasing to hear the integration.
I haven't covered the topic 'consideration for other belief systems' that you've brought up yet, but that's coming up.
Just thought I'd
review pre-existence first to see if we needed to expand on this subject further.
[edit on 25-6-2008 by saint4God]