Ask a Christian (even about the paranormal)

reply to post by saint4God


Hello


strongs numbers, explains the english word in the Bible of the original language. English is great but it doesn't always fully express everything.

www.searchgodsword.org...

Why the kingdom on earth? Okay. the Bible is written for the people of the Earth.. when you read on through the NT it shows that the Gentiles were to be brought into he fold, previously they were not preached to.

UFO's

My point is that, whilst agree they could be, Angels have always appeared to men as angels, Now with Ezekiel he was being shown a vision etc, there fore the setting is different. he sees thing as they are. when you go to company and they are the initial representative, once you get to board level things are a little different.

Motivation? There certainly is, If you are planing something major, you don't go with one angle. For instance. The sumarians believe that Aliens from another traveling planet used as as some kind of experiment and that the world ends in 2012 according to their calender. You only have to look on this website to see the conflicts it causes. Has this not and is it not causing Christians to doubt? Maybe not all but enough. It also ignites the UFO debate causing non Christians to believe the Sumerian and other view.

Remember the phrase Lying wonders in the Bible

All this takes away Glory from God, Angels would not be a party to that. Could you imagine Gods Wrath?

Four faces? I know non two face maybe :0) but these angels did not come down to see Ezekiel

no problem with the debate its good

David

reply to post by saint4God



Hello, Im really enjoying this

Angels wouldn't need physical and mechanical UFO's. They seem to decend, ascend, and appear on their own. I'd like the press on the point for the following questions...

Admittedly, this sounds very vehicular in nature:

"As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like chrysolite, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not turn about as the creatures went. Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.

When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. 20 Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. When the creatures moved, they also moved; when the creatures stood still, they also stood still; and when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels." - Ezekiel 1:15-21


So...if the wheels ARE the creatures, why call them two different things? What are angels doing on vehicles in Ezekiel? Or are they not angels? Why doesn't Ezekiel call them angels?.

Okay

The living creatures are the Cherubim the wheel are the Seraphim

Please re read Ezekiel 10 and please take note of verse 10, I am using a KJV. In verse 10 it says

And as for their appearances they four had one likeness as if a wheel had been in the midst of a wheel He is not saying that they look like wheels he is using that to describe that these angels were so alike and did the same things

The living creatures see verse 15

wherever the Cheubim go so do the wheels (seraphim or fiery ones)

they go together working together looking similar and also their work is like a wheel within a wheel

im not sure where you are from but have you ever heard of wheels within wheels to describe a plan? obviously the plan is not a wheel, if you know what i mean

all the best, ive got to get ready for work

david

Originally posted by drevill
strongs numbers, explains the english word in the Bible of the original language. English is great but it doesn't always fully express everything.

www.searchgodsword.org...

I believe I get it (did some reading before posting my response before), and it's nice to study Jesus' words in Greek...though Jesus didn't speak Greek. I'd like to go the opposite way and say that most translation say pretty much the same thing. The New International Version project took a hundred scholars 8 years to have the translation as accurate as possible from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts. Short of learning those three languages, I think it's the best we can get. The KJV, NAS, NLT, NKJV, CEV, and so forth show little in the way of variance. Perhaps some word-choice but same-same.

Originally posted by drevill
Why the kingdom on earth? Okay. the Bible is written for the people of the Earth.. when you read on through the NT it shows that the Gentiles were to be brought into he fold, previously they were not preached to.

While it is true that the Book was written for the inhabitants of earth, can we be sure that it is only written for the inhabitants of earth? If God is a big God, creator of the universe and has instructed us to "go and tell the good news", does it need to "stop at the edge of the atmosphere"?

Originally posted by drevill
My point is that, whilst agree they could be, Angels have always appeared to men as angels, Now with Ezekiel he was being shown a vision etc, there fore the setting is different. he sees thing as they are. when you go to company and they are the initial representative, once you get to board level things are a little different.

I do believe both in Ezekiel and Revelation, the viewers not only see things differently, but also see different things. They both are articulating things totally foreign/alien to us. Is it because they're poor articulators? Or is it because what they're seeing is really freaking weird? Having a few freaking weird experiences myself, I'd lean to the latter.

Originally posted by drevill
Motivation? There certainly is, If you are planing something major, you don't go with one angle. For instance. The sumarians believe that Aliens from another traveling planet used as as some kind of experiment and that the world ends in 2012 according to their calender.

I thought the Mayan calendar ended at 2012...or do they both? I honestly hadn't heard about the sumarian end prophecies.

Originally posted by drevill
You only have to look on this website to see the conflicts it causes. Has this not and is it not causing Christians to doubt?

I'm comfortable with God creating other-worlders in the same way he created mankind, angels and demons. Europeans never saw Native Americans until they got here, but they existed nonetheless.

Originally posted by drevill
Maybe not all but enough. It also ignites the UFO debate causing non Christians to believe the Sumerian and other view.

Remember the phrase Lying wonders in the Bible

This is a good point. If a Christians doubt the existance of God because of the possibility of aliens, however, I cannot help but wonder what their faith was grounded upon in the first place.

Originally posted by drevill
All this takes away Glory from God, Angels would not be a party to that. Could you imagine Gods Wrath?

I see it the other way. God having created beings on another world adds to the diverse splendor of the universe. How cool is it that God didn't stick us on one globe to be the only rock of millions in the universe with life upon it? If the world ends before space exploration begins, okay, perhaps it makes sense...but why have humans go through the exercise of venturing out only to find a desert?

Originally posted by drevill
Four faces? I know non two face maybe :0)

That was rough.

Originally posted by drevill
but these angels did not come down to see Ezekiel

Someone saw something

Originally posted by drevill
no problem with the debate its good

Totally agree, glad we're on the same line of thinking.

reply to post by saint4God



quite right Myan it is, what a pratt!! you say tomatoes??? no? ok sorry

some issues

im tired so forgive me if i don't answer something just prompt me.

The Bible does leave quite a few things out. However, speculation is all that it can be. whist i agree that IF there are other genuine life forms created by the Lord then they can read it, However, we could use the same argument for John grisham etc.

The NIV? no personally i see a massive difference, whilst im not saying that the KJV is perfect, its not however in my opinion it is far less tampered with.

will continue

Thanks for the comments on the video, i'm not great at explaining myself

David

reply to post by saint4God


Are we sure that Jesus didn't speak Greek? Anyhow is is best placed to interpret the language he did speak into the language the NT was written in? those closer to the time it was spoke it would say.

Only us? I believe so, however 100% proof no way, i don't think any one could but its only surmisation really either way, personally its for us and meant for us here on the lonely planet

Weird experiences? Bit of both I would suspect, Plus I am sure the influence of God in the way it was written, Only those that seek the truth and are prepared to dig and study will find it. I don't believe God hands out the Peter and Jane version. Everything is a test. The test is test of your love for him,

Other wolds and people, I believe God could, without a doubt, but did? until i hear it from the Lord himself i will doubt I have no doubt though that Lucifer and his minions would not find it a hard task to set up "evidence" of other civilisations, again to add credence to the "stargod" issue. That said it wouldn't dent my faith to discover other people living etc elsewhere.


faith grounded on, well we are all given our measure of faith some is destaind to be part of th mustard seed parable

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Take Care

david

Originally posted by drevill
quite right Myan it is, what a pratt!! you say tomatoes??? no? ok sorry

It would be freaky if both the Mayans and Sumerians had the same 'end world' prophecy...then again, if one believes the continents were all joined at one time, maybe not. Similarly, if you believe the Tower of Babel, then also not that great of a surprise. Either way, all humans were part of one tribe in the beginning.

Originally posted by drevill
some issues

im tired so forgive me if i don't answer something just prompt me.

No worries, the best anyone can do is what they try to do.

Originally posted by drevill
The Bible does leave quite a few things out. However, speculation is all that it can be. whist i agree that IF there are other genuine life forms created by the Lord then they can read it, However, we could use the same argument for John grisham etc.

Sure, speculation is merely speculation, but always fun to play with and helps the mind stay open to possibilities.

Originally posted by drevill
The NIV? no personally i see a massive difference, whilst im not saying that the KJV is perfect, its not however in my opinion it is far less tampered with.

Interesting you say that. There seems to me more similarities between KJV and NIV than KJV and anything else (including NKJV). When we start looking at "The Message" Bible, that one seems the furthest from any other translation other than "The Street Bible":

Genesis 1:1 - "First off, nothing. No light, no time, no substance, no matter.
Second off, God starts it all off and WHAP! Stuff everywhere!"

www.amazon.co.uk...

Let me paint an example of translations (Matthew 4:24):

NIV
"News about him spread all over Syria, and people brought to him all who were ill with various diseases, those suffering severe pain, the demon-possessed, those having seizures, and the paralyzed, and he healed them."

KJV
"And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them."

English Standard
"So his fame spread throughout all Syria, and they brought him all the sick, those afflicted with various diseases and pains, those oppressed by demons, epileptics, and paralytics, and he healed them."

NLT
"News about him spread as far as Syria, and people soon began bringing to him all who were sick. And whatever their sickness or disease, or if they were demon possessed or epileptic or paralyzed—he healed them all."

Are they different? Hmm...not really. I like pizza with pepperoni, some prefer sausage. Both are pizza - round flat bread, tomato sauce, cheese, cooked together.

[edit on 9-4-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


Hello

this happens to be a favorite subject of mine, and i will confess to a little softening of my KJV only ism on this, not much but some.

The Niv

first this is copyrighted and to get that you have to be significantly different from an "original"

secondly if go as far back as we can to the source (text used) then look at the beliefs etc of those involved.

The Niv is similar in most places, however its in the places they are not that matters

take two Sat navs they may agree for the most part, however one instruction wrong and you find out your car isn't the latest innovation of the boating world

MAny Thanks

David

Originally posted by drevill
Hello

this happens to be a favorite subject of mine, and i will confess to a little softening of my KJV only ism on this, not much but some.

I dig it. If you're into the "thee" "for art thou"s then I say any way you get the Word is a good thing, so long as it is the same message.

Originally posted by drevill
The Niv

first this is copyrighted

Although it is copywritten, they do say:

The NIV, TNIV, and NIrV text may be quoted in any form (written, visual, electronic, or audio), up to and inclusive of five hundred (500) verses or less without written permission, providing the verses quoted do not amount to a complete book of the Bible, nor do verses quoted account for 25 percent (25%) or more of the total text of the work in which they are quoted, and the verses are not being quoted in a commentary or other Biblical reference work. This permission is contingent upon an appropriate copyright acknowledgment, see ‘written use’ section below.

All quotations must be completely accurate to the text, including all appropriate punctuation, capitalization, etc. unless specifically approved to the contrary prior to publication.

When quotations from the NIV, TNIV, NIrV texts are used in such non-commercial media as church bulletins, orders of service, bulletin boards, posters not offered for sale, overhead projection transparencies not offered for sale, or similar media used in the course of religious instruction or services at a place of worship or other religious assembly, the following notice may be used at the end of each quotation: (NIV, TNIV, NIrV)

From a legal standpoint, that's mighty generous. You won't find text like this in the music industry . He're the thing though, you can use it free like the online site you'd mentioned, and I know of $1 copies you can get. Their provisions seem only to be that you're not trying to make money off of the sales, since Zondervan is the publisher and wants its due for publishing. Also interesting that we're willing to put money in the collection plate to hear someone talk about the Word, but have issue paying a very small fraction of that for the Word itself. Nevertheless, I will pony the cost of an NIV Bible and pay the shipping if anyone here wants a hard-copy.

Originally posted by drevill
and to get that you have to be significantly different from an "original"

Okay, I quoted how they were similar, perhaps you could demonstrate how they're 'significantly different' ?

Originally posted by drevill
secondly if go as far back as we can to the source (text used) then look at the beliefs etc of those involved.

The more specifics the better, though I must caution I'll point out anything that appears to be assumptions. When looking at history, we tend to make statements like, "The ancient Turks were great traders". Well, not really. There were Turks who were great traders, but not all Turks were great traders.

Originally posted by drevill
The Niv is similar in most places, however its in the places they are not that matters

Such as?

Originally posted by drevill
take two Sat navs they may agree for the most part, however one instruction wrong and you find out your car isn't the latest innovation of the boating world

MAny Thanks

David

Surely we're all looking for the ultimate GPS.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


Hello

im not quite sure where to start, can i start with the NIV's Publishers?

Zondervan, currently owned by Harper Collins i think. Now if you were a Christian Publishing house would you allow it to be sold to the same company that publishes the Satanic Bible? The satanic bible was published in the 60's and Zondervan sold in the 80's.

Now its easy to say that its jut on book and its a publisher but its clear what God says.

2 Corinthians 6:14

for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

the Bible is quite clear i think in showing us what happens when we do this, we become corrupted by the dark.

This is a quite from Zondervans mission statement

Our mission is to be the leader in Christian communications meeting the needs of people with resources that glorify Jesus Christ and promote biblical principles.

sounds great but then they are unequally yoked to harper collins and notice it doesnt say promote Christ/God and the Bible, it says biblical principles.

In 2002 it then launches purpose driven life, which is a ME ME ME guide and completely at odds with the Bible.

The enemy of God will be keen to get his hands on anything that will lead astray. The NIV is a bad translation IMHO no wonder Satan snapped it up.

Whilst i take on board your comments about the NIV's copyright (didn't know) and it is limiting. fully understand about the cost of publishing. You are correct you can read it online for free, but where? sites that hold multiple versions. If you want to pass something off as the real thing, put it with the real thing, the assumption being, it is the real thing.

Would a Christian buy a Bible that said Jesus was a woman? ( i hope not) I dont think they would, this is bacause the statement is too bold, but subtle changes little by little make a difference.

anyway back to copyright stuff

www.ipo.gov.uk...

www.copyright.gov...

How is a copyright different from a patent or a trademark?
Copyright protects original works of authorship, while a patent protects inventions or discoveries. Ideas and discoveries are not protected by the copyright law, although the way in which they are expressed may be. A trademark protects words, phrases, symbols, or designs identifying the source of the goods or services of one party and distinguishing them from those of others.

www.bpnews.net...

on the above link we get to see the NIV's wish to do a gender neutral Bible???? how is this a biblical principle? There has been several NIVs published.

Zondervan recently appointed a new Head, Maureen Girkins, but look at the following from an interview.

"I'm not sure if it's Christianity that has changed or the people that have changed. The question I can answer is how have people changed in response to seeking a spiritual growth and the support that goes with that," she replied.

Girkins described a post-modernist age for Christianity, in which believers seek a more "experiential" spiritual journey, and Zondervan has adapted its products to answer those demands.

ME ME ME again!

Now i may be really picky here as Maureen Girkins has published a book under the name of Moe Grzelakowski called Mother knows best. Its for women execs, again i might be being overly picky but GOD knows best. Use the principles that he lays down and you cannot go wrong.

cont.....

reply to post by saint4God



Part 2

Harper Collins is owned by Rupert Murdoch

Psalms 101:3

I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.

www.worldnetdaily.com...


Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them

Evan if Zondervan was selling the KJV should we buy from that outlet?

Personally i dont think we should, when the parent company plublishes stuff like The New Joy of Gay Sex.

There is too much that is wrong. whilst Zondervan will claim that they operate on their own they are yoked with evil.

david

reply to post by saint4God


hello

The NIV translators (probably heard this before)

Virginia Mollenkott

Virginia Mollenkott was a stylistic consultant for the NIV team

In 1978 she co-authored a book called Is the Homosexual My Neighbor?, she called for nondiscrimination toward homosexuality. The book argues that the Sodom account in Genesis does not teach the evil of homosexuality.

In 2001 published a book called Omnigender.

here is a comment from her site

virginiarameymollenkott.blogs.com...

Hello, everyone! I'm happy to tell you that my 2001 book Omnigender: A Tran-Religious Approach is now available in a revised and updated edition. It sports a new preface, an interesting new section on the sexuality of Jesus, lots of up-to-the-minute information, and insights from more than 36 recent sources. The Pilgrim Press lists Omnigender under gender studies, but it is really about the whole spectrum of sexualities as well as genders, and about social change and spirituality, too.

she explains her role for the NIV

`my job' was to read them with an eye as to how this would communicate with the modern reader, and to indicate if I thought there were any infelicities [inappropriate, or awkward] in language that could be corrected... So, I would write notes all over manuscripts which I was sent, both praising phraseology that I thought was wonderful and raising questions or asking-for instance something I would typically write would be, `Would the Greek or would the Hebrew permit this word' which would seem to me to be much more understandable or clear to a modern reader?..."

do you think she had an influence on

1 Timothy 1:10

1 Corinthians 6:9

The NIV translates 1 Cor 6:9 as homosexual offenders

(like saying an old women) it takes away the act being offensive

others translate as...

New American Standard Version (NASV) "homosexuals"

Revised Standard Versions (RSV) "sexual perverts"

King James Bibles (KJB) "abusers of themselves with mankind"

New Century Version (NCV) "men who have sexual relations with other men"

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) "sodomites"

New King James Version (NKJV) "sodomites"

The Living Bible (TLB) "homosexuals"


the following is from a Question and answer session from her own web site


Q: Do you have a summary statement you'd like to share with an audience of Jews, Christians, and Muslims?

Yes, I do. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all "religions of the book" - the Jewish Bible, the Christian Scriptures, and Islam's Qur'an. So it is essential that we teach people how to read texts accurately and how to apply them in the most humane possible fashion.


what happened to the truth?


Whore-ishly Implementing the Political Vision of the Christ-Sophia
presented to the International CLOUT Gathering, SUNY Brockport, August 1995
Virginia Ramey Mollenkott

if Jesus' human particularities literally describe God, then God is not only male, but Jewish, young, working-class, and bisexual. (I assume that Jesus was bisexual because of the descriptions of Jesus' intimacy with the male "disciple whom Jesus loved" and also with Mary Magdalene in the canonical and apocryphal gospels.)

This is outrageous!!!

should we trust the person to be truthful or would they have an agenda??

i think the latter.

The NIV say they did not know her views and sexual orientation but do they put this on their bible???


more to follow

I have a question for you:




What do you think Jesus meant when He said, "You must be born again."?.......and would you say that you are born again?

reply to post by Old Man


hello Old man

is this for me?

Originally posted by drevill
reply to post by Old Man

 

hello Old man

is this for me?

No, it wasn't aimed at you, but you may also answer it, if you so wish.

Originally posted by Old Man
I have a question for you:

What do you think Jesus meant when He said, "You must be born again."?.......and would you say that you are born again?

I could explain, but Jesus already did because he was asked the same question:

"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.

"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?" - John 3:4-12

In other words, the person asking was taking the meaning literally for the body, whereas Christ is telling hte man to take it literally for the spirit. Your soul/spirit needs to start over living in Christ.

drevill, I do like how you've gone through the lengths to do research. It sounds like your beef is with Zondervan (who is merely a publisher) and not the hundred scholars who were involved in the translation. Would this be an accurate statement?

Originally posted by drevill
do you think she had an influence on

1 Timothy 1:10

1 Corinthians 6:9

The NIV translates 1 Cor 6:9 as homosexual offenders

(like saying an old women) it takes away the act being offensive

others translate as...

New American Standard Version (NASV) "homosexuals"

Revised Standard Versions (RSV) "sexual perverts"

King James Bibles (KJB) "abusers of themselves with mankind"

New Century Version (NCV) "men who have sexual relations with other men"

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) "sodomites"

New King James Version (NKJV) "sodomites"

The Living Bible (TLB) "homosexuals"

I am surprised you see a great schism/chasm of difference here. You see "homosexual offenders" as different than "homosexuals" and "men who have sexual relations with other men". I'm searching for the great differences you're claiming exist by specific, cited examples. I'm not interested in the biographies of publishers if the results are this similar.

[edit on 12-4-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God



ok are you just interested in the scriptural differences?

david

reply to post by saint4God


No Beef with the publisher, however yes i see problems there

KJV
1 John 4:3, " And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist,"

NIV
1 John 4:3, " but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist,"

Can you tell me what you think of the difference here?

Many Thanks

David

reply to post by saint4God


Hello Saint,

a question

why would you not be intersted in those people that handled the word of God?

The question doesn't mean that i think we should be discussing at this moment in time.

many thanks

david

Originally posted by drevill
ok are you just interested in the scriptural differences?

I think it's a good place to start. As I'd mentioned:

Originally posted by me
"I'm not interested in the biographies of publishers if the results are this similar."