Ask a Christian (even about the paranormal)

Originally posted by drevill
No Beef with the publisher, however yes i see problems there

KJV
1 John 4:3, " And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist,"

NIV
1 John 4:3, " but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist,"

Can you tell me what you think of the difference here?

Er, you left out half a sentence. The first half of the sentence NIV is:

"This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God..."

So, no, I don't see a difference. I do appreciate this approach though and am looking forward to seeing how they are different.

Originally posted by drevill
Hello Saint,

a question

why would you not be intersted in those people that handled the word of God?

I did not say I was not interested, rather:

Originally posted by me
"I'm not interested in the biographies of publishers if the results are this similar."

In this way, the publisher is removed. The CEO of Zondervan may have 5 dogs, but if her/his 5 dogs were not integrated into the translation, then his/her involvement were a tool to move words from original text to English. If the Bible says "Blessed is s/he who has 5 dogs for they shall rule the earth" then surely one has to question the publisher's influence.

Consider this thought: The toothbrush you're using may or may not have been made by someone who cheated on his/her spouse. Because you do not know, you should not use that toothbrush else you're supporting this sinful habit. Right? Or no?

Next, because you are a sinner (and so am I), why should anyone touch anything you've touched?

Finally, who was the sinless man/woman who translated the KJV and why are they superior to the translators of the NIV?

[edit on 14-4-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


Ok before i go on to the text, ill say before that the very small differences in some texts amount to a big thing


NIV

Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Ok so if Jesus is come in the flesh is from God

but any spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God

conclusion

An evil spirit can acknowledge Jesus without acknowledging he is come in the flesh. Dangerous when trying to test the spirits.

such as

an evil person/spirit is trying to make you do something you feel is against the bible, however you are not sure so you say do you know about Jesus. Spirit answers yes i have heard of him. PROBLEM!

however the KJV ask you to test if they acknowledge he came in the flesh.
Amongst other things (diety in human form) did he exsist?

there is quite a difference and a dangerous one in my mind.

Im not trying by any means to say people cannot be saved using a NIV. for a start i wouldn't like to limit God in this manner. But do you understand the subtle difference and what it could acheive?

All the best

david




[edit on 14/4/2008 by drevill]

reply to post by saint4God


hello

I appreciate what you are saying

however we are looking for intent

5 people stand near a light switch and a debate is going on, shall we turn the light off one says yes and 4 say no, however a compromise takes place and it is dimmed

is it now easier or harder to turn off the light at a later time?

this is what happens to doctrine, church and our bible.

also if your minister stood up to preach against evil and then handed a flyer after the sermon for a sceance, what message would it give?

david



[edit on 14/4/2008 by drevill]

Originally posted by drevill
An evil spirit can acknowledge Jesus without acknowledging he is come in the flesh. Dangerous when trying to test the spirits.

As I said, the NIV does say in the same sentence:

"This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God..."

before the comma and part you'd quoted. The only omission I see is where you'd cut out half the sentence...which is even more dangerous, I think.

It's like me saying the KJV says:

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good..., thou shalt...eat of it" - Genesis 2:17 (Adam and eve were told to by God?)

"Let us do evil..." - Romans 3:8 (Paul tells us to do wrong?)

"Beware of dogs..." - Philippians 3:2 (Canines are sinful, don't own dogs?)

Does the Bible really say this?

[edit on 15-4-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


ok i think we should agree to disagree

i see a problem and you don't see one

david

Originally posted by drevill
hello

I appreciate what you are saying

however we are looking for intent

5 people stand near a light switch and a debate is going on, shall we turn the light off one says yes and 4 say no, however a compromise takes place and it is dimmed

In our case it would be 99 to 1. Again, how is this different than those who translated the KJV. I know for certain there were a hundred scholars. Who translated KJV?

Originally posted by drevill
is it now easier or harder to turn off the light at a later time?

One should always be flexible to change.

Originally posted by drevill
this is what happens to doctrine, church and our bible.

also if your minister stood up to preach against evil and then handed a flyer after the sermon for a sceance, what message would it give?

A non-Biblical message. The Bible (whether NIV, KJV, etc.) says not to. Time to leave that church and go to a Bible-following one.

reply to post by saint4God


How is a seance any different to group prayer? The definition of seance, "A meeting of people to receive spiritualistic messages", seems to fit both rather snugly.

I'm sure if you had a seance and Jesus turned up it wouldn't be called evil

Originally posted by dave420
How is a seance any different to group prayer?

This is a very good question that non-believers are often confronted with. From the outside it may look somewhat smiliar. Everyone is gathered together, is quiet and relaxed and someone is speaking. Although this also describes a funeral, wedding, family dinner, and camp-out, there's all really quite different. We have to ask questions like "who is being addressed"? "What are they being addressed about"? "By what method are they addressing"? It would be easy for me to answer these questions, but would be a better thought-exercise to ask ourselves to answer or find out the answer.

Originally posted by dave420
The definition of seance, "A meeting of people to receive spiritualistic messages", seems to fit both rather snugly.

Prayer isn't receiving messages. It's sending them.

1 a (1): an address (as a petition) to God or a god in word or thought (2): a set order of words used in praying b: an earnest request or wish

www.merriam-webster.com...

Originally posted by dave420
I'm sure if you had a seance and Jesus turned up it wouldn't be called evil

Seances are for communing with the dead. Jesus is alive. So no, you couldn't contact the dead to find Jesus. Yes, I would be very skeptical indeed if someone said they'd reached Jesus this way. If so, it would've been an intervention, not connection.

[edit on 16-4-2008 by saint4God]

i know this might be off the point, but i have been having very disturbing dreams for the last 7 weeks. i have had one every week and they all have the same theme. i am an exorcist in them and am using methods of exorcism that i have never heard of. i am a devote catholic and go to mass every week but i still have the dreams. i was even speaking latin and i found out after i was saying the "exorcism proper".
just visit my thread, its a long story.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by ciaranmccann
i know this might be off the point,

I think the only thing that would be off-point are those who aren't looking to "Ask a Christian"

Originally posted by ciaranmccann
but i have been having very disturbing dreams for the last 7 weeks. i have had one every week and they all have the same theme.

There's something to be said for consistency, especially in dreams. Most of the time dreams are random, as in your mind keeping busy. If something is persisting, perhaps you're trying to be told something in particular.

Originally posted by ciaranmccann
i am an exorcist in them and am using methods of exorcism that i have never heard of. i am a devote catholic and go to mass every week but i still have the dreams. i was even speaking latin and i found out after i was saying the "exorcism proper".

Maybe you're being called. This sounds weird but I've been acclimated to things I didn't want to approach in the past because of dreams. Having had some of the 'experience' in dreams helped me approach them in real life. Is this the case for you? I don't know, but I know Who you can ask. I'm interested in the reply when you get it if you'd like to follow up.

Originally posted by ciaranmccann
just visit my thread, its a long story.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Cool, definately want to check this out.

[edit on 30-4-2008 by saint4God]

hey Saint, i think you are a very good Christian, thats why i think you can help me with some things im still pondering about. Maybe you can help me get back to Christ.

1.Why would God create us in the first place?

2.Did he have a choice to create us?

3.What is our purpose on earth?

4.Why do we have to live on Earth anyway? Can't he make us perfect?

5.What about all those kids and people just dieing in the first second without knowing about god? Like in africa.

6.Some people don't have choices. They are just born different and don't act a "certain way". Will they go to heaven?

Sorry if these are too much questions Saint, haha. I've been thinking about Church and God lately. I just think all the people that don't get a chance to learn about God is unfair.

I'm here right now, so I thought I'd try to answer some of your questions.

Originally posted by Nirvana mania

1.Why would God create us in the first place?

Because we WERE perfect.
A perfect creation with Joys and Happiness indescribable.
We were his children and He wanted to spend time with us as He did with Adam and Eve.
And for us to love him back.

2.Did he have a choice to create us?

Yes, He has all choices at His disposal.

3.What is our purpose on earth?

To walk in righteousness and in the Love of God for Our Lord towards our brothers and to reap the spiritual joys and wisdom.

4.Why do we have to live on Earth anyway? Can't he make us perfect?

We can be perfect on this Earth if we ask Jesus to forgive ALL our sins and come into our hearts and fill us with His Holy Spirit that will quicken us.
Then you have to exercise your spiritual discernment, build up yourself in Our most Holy Faith (In Jesus) It TAkes a LOT of work to maintain if you get materially minded.

5.What about all those kids and people just dieing in the first second without knowing about god? Like in africa.

They go to heaven immediately (For such is the Kingdom of God.)

6.Some people don't have choices. They are just born different and don't act a "certain way". Will they go to heaven?

Born 'different'? Like a disability?

Sorry if these are too much questions Saint, haha. I've been thinking about Church and God lately. I just think all the people that don't get a chance to learn about God is unfair.

All people are born with the knowledge of God's commandments written on their hearts.
As soon as you sin, you know automatically that something is wrong. People may take drugs or flaggelate themselves to feel better, but sin will be in your darkened heart UNTIL you ask Jesus to forgive you and wash you in his blood. He will. Peace.

Thanks for replying.

Wait, I still don't get why God could not just let us be in heaven instead of on Earth first.

Also, i mean like the disabled the down syndrome and the manic depressive, etc. people. I don't think it's their fault that they have disease. Will they still have same destiny as us?

I would like to ask a few more questions

1.If God had a plan for all of us, then why does he have a plan for some people to murder other people? i thought he had a plan for EVERYONE. I think everyone should have same rights to get into heaven.

2.Why would God let things happen like this? A lot of people do suicide.

Thanks for responding.

Originally posted by Nirvana mania
Thanks for replying.

Wait, I still don't get why God could not just let us be in heaven instead of on Earth first.

Our generations started with Adam.
Now, heaven can't have sin in it and since the Fall of man(Adam)
Man has had offspring with inherent sin propensity.
Jesus (Jeshua) came to save us from the Virus, parasite of sin.

Also, i mean like the disabled the down syndrome and the manic depressive, etc. people. I don't think it's their fault that they have disease. Will they still have same destiny as us?

I was diagnosed manic depressive, and agoraphobic with psychotic features in 1990(or so).
Jesus FIXED me, so that I can deal with life, mentally.
I overdosed more times than I can count and I also slit my wrist.
Thank God, it didn't work, because I would not be in heaven. I didn't even believe in Jesus. I believed God was probably a woman.

I would like to ask a few more questions

1.If God had a plan for all of us, then why does he have a plan for some people to murder other people? i thought he had a plan for EVERYONE. I think everyone should have same rights to get into heaven.

God has a good plan for those that love Him but, sin breeds death.
He does not plan for people to kill, people do. We are not robots, we have free-will.

Thanks for responding.

You're welcome.
I used to ask these same questions when I was young, before I met Jesus 15 years ago.

thanks ClearSkies, i'm thinking about going to church again, just to give another chance.aiight im going to sleep. thanks much.

Originally posted by Nirvana mania
hey Saint, i think you are a very good Christian, thats why i think you can help me with some things im still pondering about. Maybe you can help me get back to Christ.

Thanks for the compliment! I would be careful though taking mere words to say who is and isn't a 'good Christian'. According to Bible, only God is good.

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone." - Mark 10:18

I certainly hope you can get back to Christ for the sake of both of you .

Originally posted by Nirvana mania
1.Why would God create us in the first place?

God has plan, of which we only get a piece at a time. The Bible not only records history, but also present and future. Currently we're living between Jude 1 and Revelation. Further still, Revelation is not "the end". The book of James and writings by Paul suggest we're to go through a growth process of learning, experiencing and feeling. This is to prepare us for the things to come.

More importanly than this, God is love. This means He has a vested interest in a meaningful relationship between creation and Creator. A rock cannot love Him back...but we can.

Originally posted by Nirvana mania
2.Did he have a choice to create us?

The Bible evidences God making choices. In fact, in a few instances, man successfully negotiates with God. Also, if God 'had no choice' then He isn't God...rather one who has to follow some kind of law which is above Him.

Originally posted by Nirvana mania
3.What is our purpose on earth?

Currently it is to go and tell the good news: Jesus has risen paying the debt of our sin and those who believe in him will have everlasting life. That's a broad definition, but I can say that my role is to help others re-establish their connection with God should they choose to do so. Each of us may have different specifics, but the overall direction is the same.

Originally posted by Nirvana mania
4.Why do we have to live on Earth anyway? Can't he make us perfect?

He kinda did...except He gave us the blessing/curse to choose. Whether it was to be a blessing or a curse was decided upon us and we chose curse. Genesis gives the account of what happened.

Originally posted by Nirvana mania
5.What about all those kids and people just dieing in the first second without knowing about god? Like in africa.

We would be unfit to judge or even guess. God knows their heart. This question isn't in His mind. He made them and knows all the 'stuff' they're made of good and bad. You and I don't know what would've happened if someone lived, but He does.

Originally posted by Nirvana mania
6.Some people don't have choices. They are just born different and don't act a "certain way". Will they go to heaven?

Only one way to find out.

Originally posted by Nirvana mania
Sorry if these are too much questions Saint, haha. I've been thinking about Church and God lately.

It's cool, these are all good questions. The only way to get answers is by asking. We can even ask God. I have. He hasn't hit me with lightning...yet

Originally posted by Nirvana mania
I just think all the people that don't get a chance to learn about God is unfair.

Are you sure they don't get a chance? All we know is they leave earth before us. We're supposed to feel something about this. It gives us an urgency and importance to reach them. Ever wonder who wrote that program?

Church is a great way to learn more about God, provided they're teaching from the Bible. There are four other means of spiritual growth that can also help. If you're questioning "If I were to die today, do I know for certain I would go to heaven?" then feel free to U2U me.

[edit on 6-5-2008 by saint4God]

I have a question. I felt a connection to God/Jesus all my life, as far back as I can remember, even though my family never really went to church. My mom told us about God and Jesus and I would sometimes go to a little church in our neighborhood by myself. Anyway, I have had things happen that I just don't know why. My grandmother lived with us and died in our house when I was 10 years old. Just a few days after she died I would wake up in the middle of the night and loudly and clearly hear someone walking up the stairs, their hand moving on the rail and their footsteps. This frightened me to death, and as soon as the sound would stop I would run to my parents room. They didn't think it was real they just thought I was dreaming. This went on for probably about 3 months, I remember hearing the person near or at the top of the stairs when it finally stopped happening. It affected me a lot, and I have felt anger about it as well as being perplexed. I could never understand why God would have allowed that to happen to me. I know much worse things happen to kids than that of course, but I have always had a doubt as an adult now, as to whether or not I can really be saved if something like this happened to me. I felt like there must have been something wrong about me for that to happen, like somehow the person I am invited/caused it. I am 51 years old now, and have never lost my faith and belief in God and know that Jesus is the Savior, I just doubt sometimes if I am included in the book of life since that happened to me. Thanks.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by Bumbeni]

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I have a question.

Good to see there's life in this thread still

I've asked some questions myself to see if you can arrive at the answers with bump or two of introspection.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I felt a connection to God/Jesus all my life, as far back as I can remember, even though my family never really went to church. My mom told us about God and Jesus and I would sometimes go to a little church in our neighborhood by myself. Anyway, I have had things happen that I just don't know why. My grandmother lived with us and died in our house when I was 10 years old. Just a few days after she died I would wake up in the middle of the night and loudly and clearly hear someone walking up the stairs, their hand moving on the rail and their footsteps. This frightened me to death,

Why do you think you were frightened?

Originally posted by Bumbeni
and as soon as the sound would stop I would run to my parents room. They didn't think it was real they just thought I was dreaming. This went on for probably about 3 months, I remember hearing the person near or at the top of the stairs when it finally stopped happening. It affected me a lot, and I have felt anger

Why anger?

Originally posted by Bumbeni
about it as well as being perplexed.

Undoubtably. I would be perplexed too. I think it's normal and healthy to be puzzled about things we don't understand. It gives us motivation to listen, learn, investigate and research.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I could never understand why God would have allowed that to happen to me.

Are you sure it is God trying to communicate to you in this way? Even if it isn't He doing the communicating, He must be allowing it, so...

There's an interesting article that asks a great question, "Why does God let bad things happen in the world?" but the answer is better answered by the Bible itself:

"Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does....Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.
" - James 1:2-8, 12

If you live through a trial and hold tight to God, then spiritually you experience growth and strength. If you do not hold tight to God, then you feel what defeat is like alone and hopefully will have learned not to try to solo suffering again.

"Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed." - 1 Peter 4:12-13

This passage is hard to comprehend. How can you be glad when you're in pain? For the reason it says here, trust and do so.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I know much worse things happen to kids than that of course, but I have always had a doubt as an adult now, as to whether or not I can really be saved if something like this happened to me.

Consider the Christian who is raped. How about the Christians who had missionary parents who were beheaded in Iraq? (I think that was in 2005). Because these things happen, is it because they are not saved? You've got to ask yourself, "What am I saved from?". You're obviously not saved from the world doing bad things from you. You're saved from being judged by your sins and risking eternal damnation. So...what's more important, living this life of 70 + - years pain-free or living forever in fun, infinite health, love, and the presense of God? Your kingdom is not of this earth my friend.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I felt like there must have been something wrong about me for that to happen,

Actually you have this backwards. There's something right about you. If there was something wrong about you, would evil have any motivation to bother you? No, let's just let you be the wrong-you and when you're expiration date is up, they can have their way with you.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
like somehow the person I am invited/caused it.

We all affect things around us, even if in a small measure. If you decided to live your life as a hermit on a lonesome mountaintop, you will have affected everyone who would've benefited from you being around on a daily basis. Therefore, affect everything you can in the most positive way possible, trust in God to correct the mistakes upon others. Make amends on the mistakes you're aware of where you can, ask forgiveness, change from wrong ways, and pray to God always to be a daily guiding hand in your life.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I am 51 years old now, and have never lost my faith and belief in God and know that Jesus is the Savior, I just doubt sometimes if I am included in the book of life since that happened to me. Thanks.

Doubt is normal and can be healthy. The only time when it's not is when we do nothing to remove it. The reason we doubt is because surely it cannot be as simple as repenting and accepting Christ, is it? We feel like we have to do something to earn heaven, but the Bible tells us we can't:

"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law." - Romans 5:12-13

"...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..." - Romans 3:23

I don't deserve heaven. You don't deserve heaven. None of us do. But,

"I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life." - John 6:47

Do you believe Jesus tells the truth? Do you believe in/trust in him? Then what does it say you have? Notice also it does not say "will have" "should have" or "will be entered into a drawing where we will choose one lucky winner...". You have it. Right now. So long as you do not give up on God willingly, no one can take that away from you. Not Satan and all the demons in hell. That, my friend, is very powerful stuff.

"Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him." - John 17:2

[edit on 16-5-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God



I don't really know why I was so frightened but that was the feeling I had. I think angry was not the right word, more like resentful, but don't know who to be resentlful to.

I understood everything you said, and you have a gift for sorting things out. I understand what you meant about using our trials and suffering, I "get it" how that works, I really do. I have read Corinthians often, where Paul talks about asking the Lord to remove the thorn and he tells him "My strength is made perfect in weakness" -- who else but the true God could come up with such a concept? I just get these periods of complete unworthiness, I have off and on all my life. Your reply helped me a lot and I thank you.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by Bumbeni]