What was attached to the bottom of these planes?

Originally posted by Whodunnit

Yes, it was a crime scene. So maybe NTSB could lend their expertise to the FBI, maybe not.

So DNA experts came up with new methods..... This is a good thing, yeah? Some of the victims were id'd before these new tests, but they were done using tissue that wasn't heat damaged. I see no problem here either.

No evidence? You may feel that it is faked, and will rule it out, but that's another discussion altogether.

1. By law whenever a airceaft crash is considered a crime scene the FBI becomes the main investigation agency with technical help from the NTSB.

The FBI and the FAA refuses to release information on the 9/11 planes part numbers so ther is no evidence that the pasrts found match the 9/11 planes.

2. The problem is that almost all the bodies were identified before the new testing came out, that included bodies that were heat damaged. Please check out the dates that the the biodes were identified.

3. As stated there is no evidence, no forensic reports that state the bodies from the planes were in the buildings. I never stated evidence was faked i stated that there is none that has been released.





[edit on 2-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

1. By law whenever a airceaft crash is considered a crime scene the FBI becomes the main investigation agency with technical help from the NTSB.

The FBI and the FAA refuses to release information on the 9/11 planes part numbers so ther is no evidence that the pasrts found match the 9/11 planes.

2. The problem is that almost all the bodies were identified before the new testing came out, that included bodies that were heat damaged. Please check out the dates that the the biodes were identified.

3. As stated there is no evidence, no forensic reports that state the bodies from the planes were in the buildings. I never stated evidence was faked i stated that there is none that has been released.

1. Are you excluding the FDR's again? These part numbers were matched. This is evidence.

2. I have. You're misinformed. Some were done using traditional, court approved methods. Others were done using the new methods, which were subsequently court approved and accepyed. If you state that the bodies that were id'd using the traditional methods were heat damaged also, please provide a little backup for this claim.

3. There were testimonies of burned bodies, still strapped in their seats found in the Pentagon. There were pics of such in the Moussauoi trial. The forensic evidence was used in that trial. All this qualifies as reliable evidence. So you are wrong.

Originally posted by ULTIMA12. Back in 2001 they did not have the DNA testing to test DNA that had been destoyed by heat. The NIST DNA experts had to come up with new tests just for 9/11, these new test were not ready untill 2002 after they identified almost all the bodies.

Following the crash of a TU154 at Operafjellet on Svalbard (Norway)
DNA-testing was used to identify the 136 passengers and the crew of 6
on Vnukovo Airlines Flight 2801.
About 60% of the victims of this tragic accident was badly burned and all of them severly fragmented, still all pax and crewmembers were identified.
The russian and Norwegian accident commission investigated this accident
with American investigaters present as observers.
This happend on August 29, 1996.

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 2-3-2008 by Freaky_Animal]

Originally posted by Whodunnit
3. There were testimonies of burned bodies, still strapped in their seats found in the Pentagon. There were pics of such in the Moussauoi trial. The forensic evidence was used in that trial.

What forensic evidence? Again there is no evidecne that any of the bodies from any of the 9/11 planes were in the buildings.

The only photos were of a couple burned bodies, no evidence of what seats from what plane.

www.nist.gov...

Due to the nature of the World Trade Center disaster, it quickly became evident that traditional methods for performing DNA typing were not likely to be fully successful in identifying all of the recovered remains. Traditional DNA ID methods depend on the presence of long, intact segments of DNA in order to accurately type the sample. The DNA in many of the samples recovered in this situation were so fragmented that these standard methods were ineffective.

In early November 2001, Dr. Robert Shaler, the director of the WTC DNA identification effort, contacted me and asked if I would be willing to develop some new DNA tests to help in the identification effort. I agreed to fast track our research efforts over the next several months and produce some test materials for his laboratory to try by January 2002.

Originally posted by Freaky_Animal

Following the crash of a TU154 at Operafjellet on Svalbard (Norway)
DNA-testing was used to identify the 136 passengers and the crew of 6
on Vnukovo Airlines Flight 2801.

Almost 90 % of the bodies on 9/11 were identified before the new testing was available.

If the fires were hot enough to destroy the plane at the Pentagon it would have been hot enough to destroy DNA.

www.nist.gov...

Due to the nature of the World Trade Center disaster, it quickly became evident that traditional methods for performing DNA typing were not likely to be fully successful in identifying all of the recovered remains. Traditional DNA ID methods depend on the presence of long, intact segments of DNA in order to accurately type the sample. The DNA in many of the samples recovered in this situation were so fragmented that these standard methods were ineffective.

In early November 2001, Dr. Robert Shaler, the director of the WTC DNA identification effort, contacted me and asked if I would be willing to develop some new DNA tests to help in the identification effort. I agreed to fast track our research efforts over the next several months and produce some test materials for his laboratory to try by January 2002.

[edit on 3-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Anyone else notice that Ultima is constantly getting the WTC and the Pentagon confused when it comes to talking about the victims from that day and how their remains were identified?

Ultima, it has been posted more than once about rescue crews at the Pentagon finding bodies strapped to airliner seats.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Anyone else notice that Ultima is constantly getting the WTC and the Pentagon confused when it comes to talking about the victims from that day and how their remains were identified?

NO i am not confusing anything. If heat destroyed DNA at the WTC heat would also destroy DNA at the Pentagon, specailly if fire destroyed the plane. Its very simple.

Again ther is no official evidence that any of the bodies from the 9/11 planes were in the buildings.



[edit on 3-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Anyone else notice that Ultima is constantly getting the WTC and the Pentagon confused when it comes to talking about the victims from that day and how their remains were identified?

Ultima, it has been posted more than once about rescue crews at the Pentagon finding bodies strapped to airliner seats.

He's not "confused".

He chooses to be this way.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

What forensic evidence? Again there is no evidecne that any of the bodies from any of the 9/11 planes were in the buildings.

The only photos were of a couple burned bodies, no evidence of what seats from what plane.

The evidence was used in the trial.

If you say there is none then only 2 options remain:

1- you believe the evidence was faked.

2- you are being argumentative just for the sake of practicing your typing.

reply to post by ian990003100


Doesn't matter, there were no planes.

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teslaandlyne (1 week ago) Show Hide
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teslaandlyne (1 week ago) Show Hide
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Originally posted by Whodunnit
He's not "confused".

He chooses to be this way.

As stated i am not confused. If there was enough heat to destroy the DNA at the WTC then there was also enough heat to destroy DNA at the Pentagon.

Its very simple.

[edit on 4-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by Whodunnit
The evidence was used in the trial.

Show me this evidence.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Whodunnit
The evidence was used in the trial.

Show me this evidence.

You're kidding, right?

You've seen the photo of the bodies strapped in the seats already. When you stated before that "all I've seen is some bodies strapped in their seats in some location that isn't specified"..... every time I've seen this, it has a caption at the bottom stating that it is Moussaiui trial exhibit # XXXX.

Or perhaps you believe that a trial was conducted with no evidence?

Originally posted by Whodunnit
You're kidding, right?

Please show me evidence that the passengers from the 9/11 planes were in the buildings.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1Almost 90 % of the bodies on 9/11 were identified before the new testing was available.

You dont read what you're responding to.
This was in 1996 and the largest remains of the crew and pax was at the size of your thumb!

Still, each and every human being onboard that plane was accounted for by DNA analyse, even the most fractured and burned ones.

Originally posted by Freaky_Animal
You dont read what you're responding to.

It seems you do not either.

www.nist.gov...

Due to the nature of the World Trade Center disaster, it quickly became evident that traditional methods for performing DNA typing were not likely to be fully successful in identifying all of the recovered remains. Traditional DNA ID methods depend on the presence of long, intact segments of DNA in order to accurately type the sample. The DNA in many of the samples recovered in this situation were so fragmented that these standard methods were ineffective.

In early November 2001, Dr. Robert Shaler, the director of the WTC DNA identification effort, contacted me and asked if I would be willing to develop some new DNA tests to help in the identification effort. I agreed to fast track our research efforts over the next several months and produce some test materials for his laboratory to try by January 2002.

Although many of the victims were identified by standard dna testing measures:
news.bio-medicine.org...

Based on a concept developed at nist, the new method allows accurate identification of DNA samples that are too damaged or degraded to be analyzed with conventional procedures. The nist research was funded by the National Institute of Justice.

The matching of more than 20,000 recovered bone and tissue remains from the World Trade Center site with DNA samples provided by relatives of presumed victims is the largest DNA identification effort ever undertaken. Remains from about half of the approximately 2,800 victims were identified previously with standard DNA analyses.

[edit on 8-3-2008 by Disclosed]

[edit on 8-3-2008 by Disclosed]

Originally posted by Disclosed
Remains from about half of the approximately 2,800 victims were identified previously with standard DNA analyses.

So that means the other half could not be identified by standard analysis.

Thats why NIST had to come up with new testing.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Disclosed
Remains from about half of the approximately 2,800 victims were identified previously with standard DNA analyses.

So that means the other half could not be identified by standard analysis.

Thats why NIST had to come up with new testing.

But in this post you said 90% were identified...

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Almost 90 % of the bodies on 9/11 were identified before the new testing was available.

Or....more importantly, WHERE were the identified victims bodies/pieces found. Were the victims from the planes or the collapse? Were any of your 90% number plane passengers...found at WTC collapse?

Originally posted by Disclosed
Remains from about half of the approximately 2,800 victims were identified previously with standard DNA analyses.

Or....more importantly, WHERE were the identified victims bodies/pieces found. Were the victims from the planes or the collapse? Were any of your 90% number plane passengers...found at WTC collapse?

Well i was jsut answering your statement since you stated 50 %.

Well there is no evidence that the bodies from the planes were in any of the buildings.

[edit on 8-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Well there is no evidence that the bodies from the planes were in any of the buildings.

[edit on 8-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Are you suggesting someone cut up the victims into small pieces, burned some, and planted the evidence at the scene? Or maybe not even deliver them to the scene...take them directly to the labs for analysis?

What agency is authorized to chop up american citizens?