ATS Where are you?

I know I made a comment about the Post Button/John Lear question:

post here

What I was saying is that I noticed my post button was missing about the same time all of Lear's threads were moved to Skunk Works. I figured the movement of of SO many different posts by SO many different members to an entirely different file/folder, had screwed up the ability for the post function to work efficiently.

Does this make sense to anyone else besides me?

Anyway... that is why I thought the two might be related.

I would like to tell my story....first a background.

My First ATS thread Ever

This is my Second ATS thread; Check the Date of the First Post

Then check my First Response ever, as a member of AboveTopSecret.

Then check the subsequent beating I took.

I didn't fare well in my first outing. I had been a member for five days and I had wanted to introduce my problems and thoughts....my first thread was my dirty laundry as it were.

I got hammered.

I never complained, I never discarded their comments, I stayed and I read. I learned that internet communication is haphazard at best. I also learned that if you want to be taken seriously, you have to be willing to account for all of the various and possible responses....they are never going to be as you expect them. Ever.

So who should bend....the wind or the willow?

My reaction to the disappointing responses was to keep reading and trying. I loved the site and still do. I wasn't going to be run off by a few posters who I had to admit were lacking in the mentality that I possessed/view the world....they had/have their own! I needed to learn what I could to best present my thoughts and get responses that took me seriously. Period. If I didn't figure out how best to be heard, by way of being as logical and explicit and emotionally detached as possible, then I was sure that I was going to get banned. I still think that.

My promotion to Moderator was a 'shock'. I posted rarely. I had ceased the beginning of new threads, for the most part. I had a sporadic login.

I came from being the harrassed to a voice of reason....and I am still shocked. But I love this site. And I have found, that it isn't what I can force out of personalities that I will most likely never meet.

It is what I can do to take on the brunt of the novelty poster(s) who are here but don't care as much as I do about the perpetuation of rational discussion on topics that many people in the real world/direct communication (with all of our evolved social cues) will laugh at, condemn, or glaze over.

We are here to learn. I imagine that is so. Where does enforcing our opinions on other persons, whom we won't know or meet, have anything to do with our learning process as individuals?

A flame is a learning process...or...a failed scientific experiment is not a failure, rather, it is an indication of what isn't possible and one less thing to be concerned with.

Information is an interesting thing...people will believe it or not. Maybe we should decide upon a collective effort on how best to discern the truth. Maybe we need to realize that an emotional reaction need not be posted. Maybe we should begin a flurry of threads meant to ruminate upon the variation of communicative techniques....

Please Start Here

I am honoured to be a part of this site. I am honoured to have been given a role in the moderation of this site. I am not 'one of them'. I am myself. And I am waiting for those who want to discourse.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I initially hoped that I could simply recode a more efficient query, but as it turned out, it was/is as efficient as it can be for a nearly 4 million record data set.

I can accept this explanation as adequate between businessmen. No one is perfect, as I have my fair share of estimation errors.

There is still a remaining issue which needs to be resolved in the interests of the members. AshleyD wrote here about the option, which was alter disabled as noted here. From what I gathered, this helped fuel the fire. If you could see your way clear as to explain why the option was disabled as you did so well in the previous part with the posts button, I think it will assuage the crowd.

Along the lines of being a previous shareholder, the best advice I can give is never sell out! I have watched stock drop to a penny on the dollar after voting on buyouts. Its like taking glass full of vodka and dumping it in the ocean. Still there, but you'd never know it because it tastes like salt water.

Since John Lear was mentioned, I believe it was due to the latest incident. Then there are lot of similar threads came out somewhat pertaining to John Lear.

I enjoy reading John Lear, I can say I always give attention to his posts.
If you can check my profile, I added him as one of my friends.

Let's consider ATS an establishment, like a company a corporate entity.
I have my own Company which is I am a member of the board of shareholders & also a managing director at the same time. We are a big organization and we function & operate guided by corporate laws, labor laws & employee's handbook.

We are bound on that terms & conditions. NO ONE is above the T&C. It should be the same thing here at ATS.

There were times when there is a problem among the higher management, we argue, we disagree over certain issues, sometimes the arguments are very serious. But, all done in a professional manner. Nothing is personal.

It is also our standard procedures, that when the higher management can't agree, WE DON'T DO IT IN PUBLIC nor we inform our staff.

We don't lie, it is just SOME THINGS ARE NOT FOR PUBLIC CONSUMPTION.

And certain issues once become public is hardly contstructive.

Kinda similar to "need to know basis" As to what happened between Springer, SO & John Lear, I believe it is the intention of the owners (which is normal) not to make it in public as it does not have to.

Nobody's perfect. Even the boss makes mistakes, the same way I do when I run my Company.

(Although there is a rule that "1.The boss is always right, 2. If the boss is wrong, please see rule number 1" (kidding of course)

Things that can be settled in private without creating disturbance to the public is always much better.

Tell me, are we not entitled to our privacy? The same way SO, Springer & Jonh Lear entitled to. They are entitled to settle their differences in private. Right?

I have been coming here to ATS site since 2002 although I only signed up 2006, but really, I enjoy it here. I have no complains.

Best Wishes

[edit on 19-2-2008 by searching_for_truth]

[edit on 19-2-2008 by searching_for_truth]

[edit on 19-2-2008 by searching_for_truth]

Originally posted by Matyas
There is still a remaining issue which needs to be resolved in the interests of the members. AshleyD wrote here about the option, which was alter disabled as noted here. From what I gathered, this helped fuel the fire.

No fire. Same query, different page. Lots of people started using it, and new slow queries started stacking up in the logs.

Can you imagine how frustrating it can be when you work hard to ethically manage this site's technology and community for 4+ year and have inappropriate accusations flung about over something as simple as this?

reply to post by yankeerose


If a thread is closed then the post reply button goes away . Im guessing thats what happened

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
No fire. Same query, different page. Lots of people started using it, and new slow queries started stacking up in the logs.

O-K, I see now, it had to be disabled for the same reason, but of course, here too a notice could have been sent in mass U2U so people would expect it to be disabled. Then there would have been no flame-ups.

Can you imagine how frustrating it can be when you work hard to ethically manage this site's technology and community for 4+ year and have inappropriate accusations flung about over something as simple as this?

Oh yes I can, the only feedback I ever get is complaints. The John/DogHead headaches conspired against you at just the right time.

Now I will tell you a secret, and no one else will get it except the ones in the know. It was handed down to me by a great engineer.

Chaos is your friend.

Think about it for a while, and you will see why.

Life is good!
This is the type of free-wheeling discourse that I signed up for.
While I am still seeing some agitatation, I am really liking the free flow.
see sig.
Back to Op
ATS is alive and STRONG, thanks to endeavours such as yours.
I really do not think this thread was necessary, I think it was needed.
John Lear should not be made a pariah, and to add , Mike Singh, RikRiley, Greeneyedleo, xx whatever Area 51 guy, only to name a few, all have written some really fantastical stuff. As I have.
We all have different perspectives to bring into the arena,
I signed up for this to get all perspectives so I may form , with my own experiences, MY OWN CONCLUSIONS.
Who amongst us here will take a strangers word for fact in such an abstract thought as what we discuss here on ATS?
Should you be that naive, I'm sorry.
This should be where ideas are debated and discussed.
Can't get into the discussion? Don't get bigfoot, lochness, EVP's, NWO,or any of the other threads, GO AWAY.
That's my 2 pennies worth, I don't want to lecture but I really do like what all of you guys write, keep it it real.

Originally posted by Dr Love
reply to post by OSSkyWatcher

 

Please do tell, how would you build your website without "stipulation-free" advertising dollars? I'd really like to hear.

SO already said they turned down The History Channel's advertising dollars because of a stipulation made by the network.

Peace

Actually I have a good idea of how to structure web surfing without ads. I've said it before, but I do not think the current structure will be able to sustain itself much longer, but that's another story.

First step would be for websites to have two versions of their live site at all times. One ad free and one with ads. When a user clicks on the site for the first time in a period, they are asked if they would like to visit this site ad free. In exchange they would have to pay a certian amount based on the length of period they want to be ad free on that site. For ATS I can see many people going for 3, 6, 12 month terms for a buck or two per month. Money would be collected by the ISP,and site owners would then get checks from the ISP, minus their cut of the proceeds. If you don't want to pay you surf the site with the ads included. Sites with no ad free page get downloaded as usual. I think this is just a matter of time. Wish I had the resources and know how to put it all together.

Of course I have no idea what level of ad revenue ATS generates per user, so such a system may not be within the realm of financial viability. I do know that click through on these ads must be very poor, so in the end the advertisers will stop paying for clicks.

A more feasible model may be a list of 'partners" where a user can find an ATS preferred vendor with revenue to ATS for those clicks. Get what you want when you want it and not some ad that flashed you 2 hours ago and is no longer to be found.

I too found the lack of Post tracking a bit of a pain, but I think actually it's ended up improving my experience - as I'm less inclined to have a blinkered approach to where and when I post. Instead of searching out my last post and seeing who has argued with me, I now search by topic. That means I miss far fewer threads on subjects that interest me - which used to happen all the time because I got bogged down pursuing arguments with people as opposed to about subject matter. I hope that makes sense, it's a little hard to explain.

I'm slightly in two minds over the subject of Lear. On the one hand, a quick google of Lear and his Pegasus project site will give you the lowdown on where he stands on the matter. I think the various posts from skepticoverlord and others have clarified the ATS position. I'm not sure there's a lot that can be added - what's done is done, it's a shame, but the situation is clear and it's hard to see its being remedied.

However.

Occasionally when questioning material posted on these boards, I am reminded by the membership that this is a conspiracy site, and that I should hardly be expecting not to read about conspiracies on the forums. I think there's an element to this here - do we really expect people not to cry foul when John Lear disappears and the statements on why are so cursory and apparently uninformative? I understand the reasons behind it (after all many threads on here duplicate material that has already been posted, are shut down and no one says "conspiracy") but the reality is that fans like myself are bound to be frustrated at a row that escalated and lost us a valued contributor. I'm not blaming anyone, but that's the reality. And when people are frustrated, they ask questions.

I do think the line that "people are giving JL a pounding" and that therefore the threads about "Learology" need to be closed on account of a lack of dignity only adds to that sense of frustration. The fact is Lear always took a pounding on these boards, generally speaking it was given and taken in good humour, but not always, and either way he dealt with it pretty well. Restricting his posting activity and then protecting his dignity might be compared to caging a wild lion and stopping people poking at the cage. Let the lion loose and see who pokes him then!

I want to be absolutely clear - I'm not attacking the mods or owners or anyone for the way they have dealt with this affair. All I'm trying to do is point out that the reaction was always going to be as it has been. I don't think it raises questions about the nature of ATS - but I don't think members who are frustrated should be regarded as unreasonable.

LW

Originally posted by LoneWeasel..a quick google of Lear and his Pegasus project site...

Um, LW, the name Pegasus was given by me after a model of an electrogravitic spacecraft I designed in '94, and Ron and I collaborated in the creation of the website out of the evolution of an ATS thread called "The Winged Horses and the Spaceship" long before John Lear showed up and was befriended by Ron.

The purpose of the website is to bring to public light the heretofore hidden possibilities of energy and transportation for the betterment of Mankind, which is in the mission statement and continues to be our objective to this day.

There is no argument John Lear is a great boon to our objectives, but our mission is neither owned nor controlled by him. We have contact with many people who have much to offer, and we will continue to provide the outlet they need to get their knowledge out for the very reasons we have officially stated.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

9) When we're done, things like the posts button and boolean search will return

The return of boolean search is the best news I've heard in a while. Google is usually adequate to search ATS. However, it isn't possible to limit the search query to a single user, forum or even a certain amount of time

I think you should be getting more praise for that newly added "thread" feature which I'm finding extremely useful.

Originally posted by Matyas

Originally posted by LoneWeasel..a quick google of Lear and his Pegasus project site...

Um, LW, the name Pegasus was given by me after a model of an electrogravitic spacecraft I designed in '94, and Ron and I collaborated in the creation of the website out of the evolution of an ATS thread called "The Winged Horses and the Spaceship" long before John Lear showed up and was befriended by Ron.

There is no argument John Lear is a great boon to our objectives, but our mission is neither owned nor controlled by him. We have contact with many people who have much to offer, and we will continue to provide the outlet they need to get their knowledge out for the very reasons we have officially stated.

Matyas - I do apologise for the wrong attribution - I should have considered what I was saying more carefully. I didn't mean to imply the site was JL's own. All I was doing was suggesting using the search terms "John Lear" and "Pegasus" would get you to the site where he had given his side of the ATS story.

Currently the site in question gives the argument a certain degree of prominence, stating that it has an "important message for ATS members" from John.

Thanks for the clarification, and apologies again if I said the wrong thing.

LW

Originally posted by LoneWeasel
Matyas - I do apologise for the wrong attribution - I should have considered what I was saying more carefully.

I accept your apology, even though I believe it is not needed because no offense was taken.

I posted the info for the benefit of the board to clear up any misunderstandings, yourself included.

And I might add I have an open door for any who may be interested. I have no further business to discuss about the site here and now as I don't intend to advertise. If anyone wants to know more they can U2U me.

Still poking the star button... where's the stars, Buzz? !

Where's John? Where's my meds?

Where's the Helium Three?

Oh, Farnsworth !

reply to post by Chakotay


There is no star button in BB&Q.

What about dropping the censorship on drugs? God knows allot of people here have to be on them . Heck at least where its relevant. I made a long @#$ post about a guy claiming to be abducted and admitting to using ketamine . I outlined how ketamine can actually cause these sort of hallucinations and proved it with science and i got a warning and my post removed.
Am i just supposed to sit by as people spout this crap and not have the tools to disprove it? Is it not ignorant to fear the unknown ? How then can we deny this ignorance ?
No offense . But is drug talk that big a no no that responsible adults cant talk about it ?
If so why ? And don't give me the "Unneeded attention" crap . Theres no such thing.
Look at what this site is based on .

[edit on 20-2-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]

I don't post much. I come here and read and think about the ideas presented to me. I joined so I could post if it seemed worthwhile. I take what I want and ignore the rest.

I know where to find Mr. Lear, when I choose. Don't the rest of you? It's not like he has taken a Hoffa Vacation.

Some things work on this site, some don't. Technology is that way. I don't think it's a conspiracy when my toaster gives me burnt offerings, I figure there's something wrong with the way the toaster is working.

Ads? I ride the bus, and I get comfortable at the stop sitting on a seat advertising Viagra. I'm not offended enough to stand up or walk to work over it.

Ask yourself just how many sites would have this thread at all?

Click here for more information.

Thanks SWYD for posting this thread. I have been away for awhile, and upon my return, I see immediately that censorship has now been not only allowed, but institutionalised..... By mgmt.
Not that it wasn't in evidence before, what with entire threads moved after gaining popularity, to obscure and/or questionable areas. Miss manners invoked and entire posts / threads deleted. All at the whim of a few (power hungry) mods with the blessing of bill and mark no doubt.
Control, control, control.

I find the censorship / removal of John Lear offensive.
Sure, he's controversial. So what.
Life is controversial.

I find the censorship of members offensive.

Are we now part of some thought control experiment?

I find the " Thought Police " aspect rampant in mgmt offensive.

mgmt has it's syncophants, suckups, and ass kissers.

We all know who you are. You as well, are part of the problem.
As in any large org. there is a tendency toward politics, and entropy.

Which naturally stifles free thought.

I was once proud to be a member of ats.
Now I am becoming ashamed.
It's like being a drone in a corrupt government, and knowing I have to tow the line in order to collect my paycheck. Even tho I know my married boss is #ing her ass sistant, and eyballing me as well.
It stinks.
It's tainted.
Free expression of thought? Or banning and censorship?
Which tastes better?
I came back with that exhiliration one feels when expecting to see an old friend.
What I found was my old friend in a Nazi uniform.
Hail to the Fuhrer.
Thanks bill. And mark.
Others, like me, who used to find John to be one of the most entertaining members of this forum, and would like to continue to enjoy him without the shackles, blindfold, and gag imposed on him here, please read him here:
lucianarchy.proboards21.com...
If you are not familiar with John's side of the story, here it is:
www.thelivingmoon.com...

Lets see how long this post remains unmolested and un MODified by the
"Thought Police ".
Who's next ?

Zorgon?
Mikesingh?
Spikedmike?

Keep it up boys, and watch the brain drain happen slowly at first, then torrentially. At that point, a tourniquet will only engender gangrene.

Happy Necrosis !

My hits, and ad revenue will be going elsewhere until I see a change in mgmt. here.
.........................................DENY Censorship.......................................


Blech..
Yechh...