ATS Where are you?

I feel like ATS has made a jump with 2008 and I barely recogize my old friend, where are you ATS?

I am addicted to this forum. I have been educated and enlightened by my short but extensive membership with ATS. I have been in awe of some of the brightest minds here and I have been entertained by some of the most creative souls. I will always be grateful for all this forum and it's very special members have offered.
With that said I have some grave concerns about the present day and the future of ATS and I feel in order to continue my positive experience with this community I must speak out.

I am seeing an upswing of closed threads, deleted and edited posts, deleted threads, technical issues and an us against them mentality between the staff and the members. I may be a bit paranoid (after all I am a member of this site) but when discussions about issues are closed without further comment I begin to get a bit frustrated. For instance...

The posts button in myprofile is gone thread, why was it closed? I understand the frustration of the staff but to close the thread causes great frustrations for the members as well. If the staff and owners felt they had answered all of the members questions with precise accuracy then great, leave the thread open and let the members decide when it has run its course.

Where is John Lear? threads. Now I am not a Lear fan (if we had that posts button you could verify) but I am completely against closing discussion threads on the matter of Mr. Lears absence and within the thread linking to another closed thread as the reason for closing that thread. If you are going to close a discussion on this matter over and over then open the original closed thread that you keep linking to, it is only fair to let your members who are interested discuss what has happened openly and fairly. I have heard the word "drama" as an excuse, well there are plenty of threads on this board that have drama that are not closed and in those cases the mods do what they are supposed to do, they mod. If a thread about what is now "The Lear Conspiracy" gets out of hand then start modding but closing these threads and not letting the members discuss the incident is not fair and most certainly is not denying ignorance.

I feel that some on this board have developed an us vs. them mentality. Most of the staff of this forum are some of the most outstanding people ever but there are some that have taken quite a liking to belittling and chastising the members here, you can feel the disdain in their typed words. Your members are not a "them" we are what makes this forum tick and without us there would be no 1 million unique visitors and no board. The members are the bread and butter, please remember this when you before you type out your frustrations.
I am not a child and I would appreciate some respect just as I give respect to you.

These are just some examples, there are many more but I feel these 3 cover the bases. There is much more I feel needs to be said but I feel I have said enough for now.
Now I am sure that I will make some enemies with my comments and that is fine, I may even be banned or closed or even deleted but I felt I had to make some comments because these things have been bothering me and I have not been enjoying my time here as I used to, in fact I have been avoiding coming here. I hope that this board will get back to basics and continue what it does best, the brightest people in the world coming together to deny ignorance.
My dear old friend ATS, where are you?


[edit on 19-2-2008 by SEEWHATUDO]

Starred and flagged



Thanks for saying so well what I have been feeling the last couple of weeks.

This is my favorite site, yet I haven't spent more than an hour a day since all of the "drama" started.

It is a shame when we members are so afraid that we will get banned or reprimanded if we express our true thoughts on this matter.

It almost seems as though the members who like to research and keep abreast of the many goings on here are very frustrated and feel that the site we knew and loved is becoming something of the past.

What is REALLY going on???

I have the utmost respect for the staff and the creators of the staff, but recently is does seem that posts questioning this new turn of events or even board protocal has been seriously changed. It is very common for a couple of staff members to answer questions with flippant non answers.

Is there some idea that the site will be more successful with limited membership abilitities to research other posters history, etc?

Important threads are immediately disrailed I am seeing it regularly.

The trolls seem to have control of the site.

I hope that this is a passing phase and that all will be straightened out soon. Otherwise there will be a market for another site which can provide that which ATS used to stand for to Deny Ignorance.

Thanks, SEEWHATUDO for making this thread.

Edit to add:

OOps! No starring is available, still flagged!

[edit on 19-2-2008 by interestedalways]

Originally posted by SEEWHATUDO
I am seeing an upswing of closed threads, deleted and edited posts, deleted threads, technical issues and an us against them mentality between the staff and the members.

These things come in waves as we've seen over the past five years of our growth cycle.

Technical issues? Could you elaborate?

The posts button in myprofile is gone thread, why was it closed?

The reason for the posts button being temporarily removed was covered several times, a handful of members for some odd reason were unable to accept the simple explanation, and the thread became a drama-fest. The point was addressed, solution discussed, and there was no further reason to keep it open.

Where is John Lear? threads. Now I am not a Lear fan (if we had that posts button you could verify) but I am completely against closing discussion threads on the matter of Mr. Lears absence

Index Of John Lear Threads (and old links to his forum auto-redirect to that thread)

It's highly unfortunate that the issue with John Lear has evolved to this point, but things change and people move on. We had (and still have) a strong desire for the legacy of Mr. Lear's contributions to ATS to stand with a level of dignity appropriate to his background and life's experiences. The few threads that remained open to discussing his departure were seen as an open season slug-fest by his detractors, requiring in inordinate amount of decorum management. Even if we may be at odds with the person, we'll not support such undignified activity.

My dear old friend ATS, where are you?

We're here. But as is the case with all things... change happens.

The good news... we're more popular than ever with over 1.3 million unique people finding us every month.

This will show you the last 150 posts by you, you can find this link on www.abovetopsecret.com... on the right hand side of the screen

Extended Profile And Info For SEEWHATUDO
www.abovetopsecret.com...





[edit on 19/2/2008 by Sauron]

reply to post by SEEWHATUDO and post by interestedalways


Spend more time reading the threads within the debate forum. Better quality there.

[edit on 19/2/2008 by Beachcoma]

If anything, during my short (ish) time on ATS, it has become better.
I'll give an example.
My favourite forum is alt breaking news - I love the different takes on news that you get from a diverse range of people.
Not so long ago, any old story was posted on there - now we see a new set of guidelines for what to post, not only in the forum, but at the top of every page as well.
No room for doubt anymore, as long as people bother to read the guidelines.
And maybe this is why threads are being moved or closed - they are, perhaps, inappropriate for a particular forum.

Yes there are issues, and probably always will be, but I see this as a very dynamic, forward moving community - and when things change fast, it takes a little time to play catch up, in the management sense.

That said, how many times must SO, Springer and the mods explain the same thing before they start to get a little ticked off?

That's what happened IMO with the threads you mentioned - that and the drama, which we can all do without.

I am thoroughly enjoying the changes on ATS as we move to being the best run site OF ANY KIND on the net.

Has the post count gone up in the last year?

Are the same number of moderators trying to handle a much larger load?

These are just a couple of thoughts that came to mind concerning the (appropriately mentioned) degredation in the quality of many threads.

Becker

I will always be a member first before anything else on ATS. I was a member long before I became a moderator, but I understand how perception can be different for each person. What I find difficult is that sometimes Members don't see us Moderators as being just Members too. Ask a few of the staff members about their threads that are buried with little to no attention, we can all speak from experience, we have no control over what is "popular" and the "topic of the moment". Many educated posts are ignored while threads with less thought seems to sometimes garner all the attention. It happens to ALL of US.

Another point I'd like to make... Staff wouldn't need to close threads, edit or delete posts if Members simply took the time to read the Terms and Conditions of Use they "agreed to" when they signed up before posting.

As for movement of threads from one forum to another, I guess we'll always have disagreements there because for some reason Members don't want to take the time to switch from ATS to BTS or AP and make those boards as popular and current as ATS is. Admin has been kind enough to give us all these forums in which we can discuss everything we want, nothing is being censored by moving threads from one place to another, we're just trying to catalog everything appropriately and encourage discussion all across the boards. Any stigma that Above Politics or BelowTopSecret is unfounded, any topic can be popular we just all have to be willing to participate.

Are we here on ATS for points and colorful bars? Or are we here to discuss topics that matters to us. It shouldn't matter one bit, where a topic is housed, if it's important to you, then show it and participate there.

"posted on 19-2-2008 @ 00:02 single this post "quote"REPLY TO:

reply to post by ConspiracyNut23


Not only was John not "predicting" or "foretelling" anything, he was sharing information that was available if you knew where to look... But WHERE was he ever abused or mocked for talking about this subject?

What's the point of this thread? We are talking about something that happened TEN YEARS ago and is truly meaningless to this day.

Can someone enlighten me as to the point of this thread please?

Springer... "




do w/e you want to my forum screen name, but I PERSONALLY FEEL that John Lear and the topic of him is no longer welcome here

why does springers tone in that reply make me feel like he wants people to feel stupid for believing anything john lear says at all?



"What's the point of this thread? We are talking about something that happened TEN YEARS ago and is truly meaningless to this day."

it's about 20 years ago now also

also this reply breaks no forum rules in away way shape or form

i am just saying what i feel in regards to ATS

oh btw

if you look at John Lears account, he is regularly on ATS still

i dunno why he doesn't post here anymore, but he is here reading all the time it seems


[edit on 19-2-2008 by OSSkyWatcher]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


All I ask at this point is to let the members of this forum have a chance to discuss their issues and get it all out.
Please do not just close the thread because the subject matter may be intense.
Please let us be the intelligent adults that we are and let us speak our minds without fear of fallout.
If a thread needs to be roped in or a member needs some heavy mod intervention by all means jump in but keep the thread open so we can at least feel that our thoughts count and we are not just post counts.

[edit on 19-2-2008 by SEEWHATUDO]

so the definition of an advertisement is this

–noun
1. a paid announcement, as of goods for sale, in newspapers or magazines, on radio or television, etc.
2. a public notice, esp. in print.
3. the action of making generally known; a calling to the attention of the public: The news of this event will receive wide advertisement.


NBC advertises here, like am i really seeing that NBC is paying ATS to show NBC's political videos?




*picture was too big, here is ad*

[edit on 19-2-2008 by OSSkyWatcher]


oh and here is the link to NBC's political network

pvn.pulse360.com...

as it is advertised on this site

[edit on 19-2-2008 by OSSkyWatcher]

How many more "john lear is being unjustly persecuted" posts are we going to see today?

I am more convinced than ever that he put the word out to his disciples and followers to launch a grass roots campaign to redeem him.

This is getting ridiculous.

I, for one, sympathize with SEEWHATUDO. I'm finding it difficult to enjoy ATS like I used to due to the combative nature of some members and the tabloid quality of many of the posts.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
Are we here on ATS for points and colorful bars? Or are we here to discuss topics that matters to us.

This is really the heart of the matter. I'm always amazed when I come across an excellent post authored by a long-time member with very few points. I really admire that sort of intellectual dedication and open-mindedness, to be an avid reader with a reserved opinion - Now that is Denying Ignorance.

Make no mistake, I am not saying that members should necessarily post less, only that they should take responsibility for their membership and pay more attention to the quality of their posts. Does it introduce a new topic? (Double check the search function!) Does it put a different spin on an already discussed topic? Does it contribute to the quailty of the discussion and/or further the topic along? Sadly, it seems as if many members are just posting to regurgitate their extemporaneous thoughts on a topic or to get the points.

In particular, the "Breaking News" forums need extra attention. If I can turn on CNN, FOX or MSNBC and see the story being reported, it has already "broken". Even though the standard for these forums has been repeatedly posted, it seems to go unheeded. Why? Because of the points.

I love ATS - there's no place like it on the net - and I will hang in there. I completely understand that there is a cyclical nature to it. I'm just hoping it trends up and not down.

Also, there are few "banned" members who added much to the forum and their presence is sorely missed. I guess when it comes down to it, it's really about points and personalities. Too many or not enough of either one can be a problem.

reply to post by COOL HAND


If you read the OP you would see this thread is NOT about John Lear being treated justly or unjustly. Mr. Lear is not my concern, my concern is threads being closed and being redirected to other closed threads and people who are interested in these topics not being allowed to discuss them.
Please do not derail this thread, I would like it to stay open as a way for the members of this forum to have a place to air their thoughts in a respectful and intelligent manner.

Originally posted by SEEWHATUDO
Please let us be the intelligent adults that we are and let us speak our minds without fear of fallout. If a thread needs to be roped in or a member needs some heavy mod intervention by all means jump in but keep the thread open so we can at least feel that our thoughts count and we are not just post counts.

The problem is that the balance between allowing civil discussion and proper mod intervention ("roping-in") is very hard to keep, well....balanced. People do have agendas. Perception of "what's really going on here" is going to vary from member to member (including mods). I trust that a member such as yourself would approach it in a mature, open-minded, and civil manner, and I also trust that others won't.

I know that question was put forth to SO, but I thought I'd throw in my two pesos.

Peace

reply to post by SEEWHATUDO


Funny, I do not see anyone else starting topics to discuss those things again.

If you really want to discuss those topics, then start your own and stay within the T&C of the website.

I was merely pointing out that yours was about the fifth post today that touched the subject of john lear. Seemed a little fishy to me.

reply to post by SEEWHATUDO


I would agree with most of that.

The only thing I would add is getting questions answered.

Like this Four days, and no one knows anything? C'mon.

OK one point seems to be mentioned, why is it so important to mention or focus on the issue of ATS has had its most popular month, is it kinda like a numbers game, now, where points make prizes, in that more sponsor revenue is received, so ats comes on like a revenue machine, the reason i ask this, in a straight forward manner, is that OK the site obviously costs money to run, but recently another message came across, LOOK ats had its one millionth viewer was ats not always focused on the truth, still is, but this new awareness of numbers seems to defy what ats is, or am i totally wrong, and buy looking at the numbers, do i offer my humble opinion that the ATS tax reducing, all singing and dancing corporate version, where you too can purchases shares is on its way, ok we can all be proud about whatever we choose in life, thats obvious, but it does make you think, or do we wait for the 1,100,000.00 viewers and really why is that so important. Or more importantly who is that information important too. certainly not me, i enjoy reading ats million people or not. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

(Disclaimer: This does not reflect my opinion as a Mod, nor does it reflect staffs opinion. This is purely personal).

There´s no suppression or conspiracy going on here. If you want to talk Lear, you can talk Lear in Lears threads which can be found in Skunkworks. Alternatively, this is not the only place in the internet...there are other forums you can talk Lear some more. You can talk Lear all you want, nothings gonna stop you.

But as to threads that turn into a bashing spree of Lear or of the administration of ATS: Those things are the private business of the individuals concerned. Bashing other members, be it a normal member, be it a moderator, be it the three amigos, or be it an ex-member is at odds with the T & C.

As for other complaints about ATS: I see this as "user generated content". In this sense, if I dont like what I am reading, I´ll have to contribute something better.

WE decide what this place is all about.

Im always kind of dumbfounded at complaints about ats-content. Normally you´d think the person complaining so often would either quit coming here or post something better.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

WE decide what this place is all about.

you mean the Mods and Owners

i have no power over the content of this site, and neither do my fellow non mod members

we "post" threads on someone elses webspace

simple as that

if the mods/owners don't agree with what is posted they do what they want

and we have ZERO say in that because we do not own this webspace