Christian Right's Emerging Deadly Worldview: Kill Muslims to Purify the Earth

reply to post by undo


Isn't this why we come to ATS?
To discuss these things in our own way and to try to reach consensus about the why's and wherefores, and also to listen and read other views?

As long as organised religion exists, extremism will exist, as each side vies for power, with corrupt men making and changing the rules for their own gain - whether that gain be political, financial or simply for more members to make their faction "stronger".

The press will also always bow to the whim of powerful people and give joe public what those in power want them to believe.

In discussing topics like this, we deny them the power over us to shape our thoughts and opinions - as long as we don't give into the rhetoric from ANY side.

Including the christians who whine about not getting enough press time.



[edit on 12/2/2008 by budski]

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by undo

 

Isn't this why we come to ATS?
To discuss these things in our own way and to try to reach consensus about the why's and wherefores, and also to listen and read other views?

As long as organised religion exists, extremism will exist, as each side vies for power, with corrupt men making and changing the rules for their own gain - whether that gain be political, financial or simply for more members to make their faction "stronger".

yep, but type in the word "christian" into the search box and see how many are anti-christian threads, or threads that villify christians in general. even the democratic party, CNN, schoolbooks and papers by respected men down through history, have been drenched in anti-christian sentiment. and their general public doesn't appear to be able to see past the first rung of the ladder: it's auto assumed all people of that description are automatically that way and automatically responsible for anything done by anyone of that description in history, thusly my analogy of men vs. women.

that's the problem.

reply to post by apc


Correction. One will cut your head off, and the other will give you a sham trial to put you in prison where they can cheer for your rape and brutalization for years to come and shed no tears when you're beheaded by some guy named "Bulldog" who knows how to make his lunch tray into a guillotine.

i recall a conversation between two avowed satanists

after reading an article written against christianity by satanist#1, in which he basically made himself into an absolute hypocrite, satanist#2 said, " Wow, you sure are a hypocrite! And I love ya for it!" He was totally serious.

the way to fix the problem, from the perspective of these two individuals is to expect extremely good behavior from the christian but not hold themselves accountable for anything, even maybe bumping off a few, because well, they are a blight. the rationale for this attitude was that somebody who called themselves a christian, once upon a time, did that very thing, so it was simply karma, catching up the person, or something to do on a rainy day, perhaps even a survival of the fittest scenario.

i found that highly disturbing but see that as the trend in society. my dad use to say that to me in so many words: "Don't do as I do, do as I say." That always bugged me.

reply to post by undo


You could say the same thing about islam, catholocism, scientology or anything else for that matter.

Just because you believe in something, doesn't mean that everyone else does, or should.

People have every right to express how they feel about a subject without getting flamed.

BTW, I didn't reply to your analogy as it made little sense to me - the two are impossible to equate to each other.


[edit on 12/2/2008 by budski]

Christianity, like all major world religions, has many different interpretations, SOME of which are extreme.

Followers of each interpretation or belief system believe they are the true interpreters of "Gods" message and as such everyone else is a non-believer.
This offers the opportunity for manipulation and exploitation of the believers and the message.

No-one here has expressed the opinion that all Christians are extremists.

reply to post by Freeborn


Apparently, to some, ANYTHING critical of christianity should not be discussed - even extremism.

I have long said that the religion is not the problem, it's what man has made of it that causes the problems - hence my dislike for ORGANISED religion.

The one form of extremism you will find in any religion is extreme hypocrisy.

Originally posted by budski


There are extremists in ALL religions - the view mentioned in the OP is an extremist view and is attributed to a christian group, therefore, christian extremists exist.

We all know they are the minority - just as extremist muslims are the minority.

There are few points to all this.

1. We all can understand that extremism is a minority in a religion, but what percent is that minority? When we look at just Christian and Muslims how many per 100,000 are extremists? This I think is a valid point since there could be 10 times the extremist in one religion compared to the other, and this is something not really looked at. When we are talking billions it can be a small percent and still equate to a large number of people.

2. What level of extremism are we talking about? How about extreme religious laws, extreme social requirements, extreme religious teachings in schools, extreme intolerance, extreme punishments and actions, extreme levels one is willing to go in the name of their religion. We tend to generalize the term extremism and it crosses multiple levels, and how do we compare the extremist in one religion to the extremist in another. As example; one extremeist might be willing to strap a bomb to his daughter just to kill you and another extremeist might just be willing to discrimminate only.

3. Lastly we need to look at how the majority in a religion tolerate extremist views. Even though they might not be extremist what is the approval ratings on extremist actions, and at what level does the majority condemn, condone or stay neutral to extremism in their religion.

So to really get a good picture we need to put a number to how many in a religion is an extremist, what intensity is that extremism manifested, and how the majority in that religion tolerate extremism.



[edit on 12-2-2008 by Xtrozero]

you can say what you want, i just want you to realize the implications. all this negative press against the word "christian" has been manipulated, artificially, just like the problems with the word "muslim" and the problems with the word "jew" and so on and so on.

listen, they were on CNN after the last election (that they claimed was fixed by computer fraud anyway!), blaming the christians of the USA for bush's re-election. They had charts and graphs and statistics to prove that christians were, less educated, (i'm serious, this was on a respected news program and broadcast to anyone who picks up CNN), lower IQs and so on! Now how can it be that only people of faith are less educated? Does this make any sense to you whatsoever?

then a couple famous comedians who aren't christian picked up the ball and ran with it, and i mean they didn't do comedy skits, they gave their frank and honest opinion liberally sprinkled with every conceivable negative stereotype you can think of.

it's in the music on MTV, the school textbooks, everywhere. it's actually quite disconcerting but if that's what rings your bells, well, what can i say - be my guest, just don't blame me later. I've done my part to circumvent it, or tried, anyway.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by undo]

reply to post by Xtrozero


Interesting, but perhaps impossible to quantify.

Extremists rarely think their views are extreme - they think others are wrong or less devout.

However, I don't equate extremists with the religions they profess to represent - they often hold what appears to be a twisted view in comparison to those whose views are "mainstream".

I think that one of the biggest problems is that people focus on extremism in islam because of media programming (and I don't mean what's in the TV guide) when it's clear that it exists in most, if not all, organised religions.

I would guess the religion with the most adherents has the most extremists - but this is obviously very simplistic and is only an idea to bounce around.

undo
why is it so important to you that the rest of us "realise"
This also comes across as arrogant - do you believe that only you have "seen the light"
That only you possesses the critical thinking facility to see this?

I would guess that more members have not addressed this because they already know and have thought about it - and probably discussed it as well.

Personally, I wouldn't try teaching grandma how to suck eggs, but that's just my opinion.

[edit on 12/2/2008 by budski]

reply to post by Dark Skies


Matthew didn't write the book of Matthew either. It was a group of post-Yeshua death Way followers who wrote the books.

Paul just manipulated the original texts to suit his needs.

reply to post by budski


Indeed, so it seems.
The one thing that has genuinely suprised me is the complete refusal of some people to admit that Christian extremists even exist despite the evidence.
These people have taken the view that any mention of Christian extremism is an attack on Christianity as a whole.

undo
why is it so important to you that the rest of us "realise"
This also comes across as arrogant - do you believe that only you have "seen the light"
That only you possesses the critical thinking facility to see this?

Well you said you were worried about extremists. What do you think will happen when they feel seriously threatened?

To quote DUNE:
"Plans within plans."

Think past the prejudice

reply to post by undo


Of course this is balanced out by the fact that it is nearly impossible for a non-Christian politician to get elected, the fact that Christian mores and theology keep popping up in our legal system, the problem that Christian influence never once leaves the public arena, even if it's tho the detriment of someone - Christian or otherwise, and the fact that it's impossible to watch a simple television show these days without a lead character professing their absolute love of god / Jesus. We're swamped with stories of biblical prophecies coming true, we have a Revelations-based foreign policy, and can't even be members of this nation without first acknowledging the power of the Abrahamic God.

Know why there's so much contempt for Christians in America? Familiarity breeds contempt, and Christians work very, very hard to make sure that they are the very familiar. They strive to be the only people in this place that "count." Not all of you of course, but certainly enough, without a single peep from those less active among you - unless as in your case, they want to whine about someone daring to poke at the religion.

if you think Christians have it rough in America, you are flat-out deluded.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

Actually it seems like these guys are just carrying over some of their extremist Muslim ways.

Walid Shoebat, Kamal Saleem and Zachariah Anani are the three stooges of the Christian right. These self-described former Muslim terrorists are regularly trotted out at Christian colleges.

Curly, Larry and Mo, who all say they are born-again Christians, engage in hate speech and assure us it comes from personal experience. They tell their audiences that the only way to deal with one-fifth of the world's population is by converting or eradicating all Muslims.

That is basically the flip flop of the Muslim version. Kill anything that will not convert.

Calling these guys Christian is like calling a turd a fine automobile.

Did anyone read the article before it went 9 pages deep?

Originally posted by zerotime
Actually it seems like these guys are just carrying over some of their extremist Muslim ways.

Walid Shoebat, Kamal Saleem and Zachariah Anani are the three stooges of the Christian right. These self-described former Muslim terrorists are regularly trotted out at Christian colleges.

Curly, Larry and Mo, who all say they are born-again Christians, engage in hate speech and assure us it comes from personal experience. They tell their audiences that the only way to deal with one-fifth of the world's population is by converting or eradicating all Muslims.

That is basically the flip flop of the Muslim version. Kill anything that will not convert.

Calling these guys Christian is like calling a turd a fine automobile.

Did anyone read the article before it went 9 pages deep?

Hate to break it to you, but if they regard Jesus as the messiah and son of god, they're Christians. You lack the authority to pick and choose who your religion-mates are.

But read the rest of the article. These guys are lying out their asses about their backgrounds.

if you think Christians have it rough in America, you are flat-out deluded

I don't think it's "tough", I think it's going to get "tough." The first sign was the concept of dividing people along political/religious lines. Deliberately making it seem as those only christians voted for bush, and that all christians are republicans. and then making the entire republican party seem like a huge pile of nazis war machine freaks, thereby associating christians in general with bush and his actions.
then showing up on the news and villifying christians who supposedly voted for a guy who supposedly got in by computer fraud anyway. then calling us a bunch of idiots and saying the world would be better without us and no one seems to think that sounds even remotely hitlerian. it's an atrocity waiting to happen, on a huge scale.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Hate to break it to you, but if they regard Jesus as the messiah and son of god, they're Christians. You lack the authority to pick and choose who your religion-mates are.

But read the rest of the article. These guys are lying out their asses about their backgrounds.

If you are asking me whether I believe there is idiots in all religions my answer is, duh.


I found a video of the three men in question. www.youtube.com...

reply to post by undo


And again, instead of addressing what I posted, you imply that only you have an inkling of what's going on and AGAIN imply that people who don't hold to your view are prejudiced.

This is utter rot.

Christian extremism exists - as extremism exists everywhere. You'd do better to stop denying, read the article and address the REAL issues, instead of the non-issue which you have blown out of proportion.

I have seen no anti-christian views in this thread - just anti-extremist ones.

I'm starting to think you are from the same mould as kangija.

Originally posted by budski
Interesting, but perhaps impossible to quantify.

Extremists rarely think their views are extreme - they think others are wrong or less devout.

This could be the main problem for the proper measurement of extremism we would need to use external gauges, but what guages do we use. Because of my views I could easily say the majority of Muslims are extremeist and I would be correct...or wrong with just some changes to what I base my views on.

However, I don't equate extremists with the religions they profess to represent - they often hold what appears to be a twisted view in comparison to those whose views are "mainstream".

But one big problem is how the majority accepts those with twisted views. How could Christians ever own slaves when we all are equal brothers, or how does a mom have rock star status because three of her sons have been suicide bombers when it is against their religion?

I think that one of the biggest problems is that people focus on extremism in islam because of media programming (and I don't mean what's in the TV guide) when it's clear that it exists in most, if not all, organised religions.

I think it is deeper than that for the majority of Muslims are viewed as extremist using western gauges. Even Muslims here in the states are extreme in many ways to how the west views things.

I would guess the religion with the most adherents has the most extremists - but this is obviously very simplistic and is only an idea to bounce around.

I agree with this for it stifles moderation and tolerances. One gauge to look at is the repercussions from one either breaking a religious rule/law or not maintaining imposed religious requirements. The reactions of the religious will paint a pretty good picture of extremeism.