Dissidents 'inept but dangerous': Terrorist threat increase in N.Ireland

reply to post by infinite

The fact I've posted information about a loss of a family member to the IRA and you've simply laughed it off means you are a pretty sick human being. And I don't care if I get warned for it.

AH.. so I should cast aside my political beliefs to better comfort the sensitivity of another? You made this thread for simpathy and to cast down the Irish?

This thread started with a fair and open balanced view point, myself posting about my parents having to flee violence and you've come here and decided to make this thread polarized (against my wishes)

I posted my fair and balanced view point.. and you turned it into something else?

My entire post. You saw two lines. If that is not ignorance, I don't know what is.

Also I feel for your family. Tragic. Does it change how I feel?

No.


If we revert back to my original posts.. we will see I added to this conversation.. but perhaps it was not good enough.. because I asked not to be attacked for not joining the English bandwagon.

And I was attacked.

I've never felt so insulted or offended this much before on ATS. I'm not joking either. I'm lost for words how a poster can be so ignorant to personal tragedy.

Cry me a frikin river man. Seriously. Just because you where on the recieving end of a political cause, no one should even dare to hold opposing views?

Welcome to reality, your situation will not change my views.

Nothing personal, only if you make it so.

Rockpuck say what you like cause I've simply had enough of ATS and because of your comments today, I now know why I should leave this place.

Surely you don't mean that.. just take a walk, calm down, come back and we can have a civil discussion. If you will discuss with someone who does not have the same views as you?

But if you do not return, ATS will miss you.

And just so you know.

I am not sorry.

it is just a shame the British government did not hunt down and execute the provisional movement in the early 1970s

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Ireland really only escaped the Troubles because of the "Celtic Tiger" and once that died, they could very well go back down the path they came.

this is a baffling and completely false statement- the "celtic tiger" only emerged in the early 1990s, at a time when the troubles were drawing to a close- the troubles having been at their height in the early 1970s!!

stil revisionism was always an irish nationalist friend..........

And through the 90's the Irish economy was gradually gaining momentum .. what stopped them from reverting back to the war they where fighting? People had jobs, the way of life was better, people stopped supporting armed revolutions. The Celtic Tiger made Ireland the fastest growing economy in Europe. Now its not, but it was, and people who have nothing to complain about will not support violence for nothing.

Then what I was saying is that as the economic situation declines support from the Republic may foster a rivival of attacks in the North.

Economics is almost always tied into wars and revolutions.

Originally posted by blueorder
it is just a shame the British government did not hunt down and execute the provisional movement in the early 1970s

Every time the England executed revolutionaries it only furthered the Irish cause... violence on either side does not make a right.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
And through the 90's the Irish economy was gradually gaining momentum .. what stopped them from reverting back to the war they where fighting? People had jobs, the way of life was better, people stopped supporting armed revolutions. The Celtic Tiger made Ireland the fastest growing economy in Europe. Now its not, but it was, and people who have nothing to complain about will not support violence for nothing.

Erm "the irish" were not fighting a war- the phrase "the celtic tiger" refers to the economy of the Irish Republic who viewed the provisionals as insurgents as the provisionals did not recognise the Irish army as legitimate.

The Republic did not get involved in the troubles in the 1970s, when they were at their height, and when the ROI economy was gash

Then what I was saying is that as the economic situation declines support from the Republic may foster a rivival of attacks in the North.

The "republic" never attacked the north, ever, even in the 1970s when their economy was up the left

Economics is almost always tied into wars and revolutions.

not in the way you have crowbarred it in for the Northern Ireland example

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Every time the England executed revolutionaries it only furthered the Irish cause... violence on either side does not make a right.

not so, the British government wiped out the scum of the IRA east tyrone brigade at Loughall, when they tried to attack an isolated police station in the late 1980s- there was no upsurge in violence.

If this policy had been employed in the early 1970s, things would have been sorted a lot quicker

These arent "revolutionaries", but sectarian baby killing marxist thugs

[edit on 6-2-2008 by blueorder]

reply to post by blueorder


"erm" .. the IRA had quite a bit of support from the South my friend..

Just as they did from America, the South funded and helped arm and it would not be uncommon for a citizen of teh Republic to be involved in IRA affairs.

the "general" opinion may not favor the IRA in city centers, but they had support.. and when the economy turns for the better, even the remote areas of the West prospered.. the support dies.

reply to post by blueorder

These arent "revolutionaries", but sectarian baby killing marxist thugs

My mistake again for questioning the mighty English. violence will continue in its circle.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

"erm" .. the IRA had quite a bit of support from the South my friend..

Just as they did from America, the South funded and helped arm and it would not be uncommon for a citizen of teh Republic to be involved in IRA affairs.

minimal support, the NI question was never on the mind of the majority of people in the ROI, most liked the notion of Irish unity, but hated the marxist scum of the provisional IRA and certainly were not interested in forcing unionists by violence. They got their funding in the south mainly through criminal means- the "celtic tiger" analogy is irrelevant as the bulk of violence was in the 1970s anyway, long before the celtic tiger.

You can get people anywhere who will donate to causes they know # all about, including some in Irish America

the "general" opinion may not favor the IRA in city centers, but they had support.. and when the economy turns for the better, even the remote areas of the West prospered.. the support dies.

they had next to no support, and your argument is bogus, violence dropped in the 1980s well before the onset of the "celtic tiger"

The two are not even remotely linked regardless of what theory you have dreamed up

admin edit: Removed childish, vulgar language, READ the Terms And Conditions of this site please.


[edit on 2-6-2008 by Springer]

Originally posted by Rockpuck

My mistake again for questioning the mighty English. violence will continue in its circle.

Ignorant and bigoted comment, I live in Northern Ireland, and know what the IRA means in reality, not in the dreams of some person from America.

If the provos go back to violence, once again we will stand firm, take that how you want

admin edit: Removed childish name calling/warned

[edit on 2-6-2008 by Springer]

reply to post by Rockpuck


So what's your point?
That recession causes resentment and breeds revolution?
Well that's an earth shattering eureka moment isn't it?

With all due respect, as I stated in my last post, I honestly think you have little or no understanding of the actual details of Ireland and it's problems.

I suspect all you know is from history books portraying some romantic, nationalist rebel fighting oppression and injustice.
Oh, how far from the truth that image is.

Originally posted by Freeborn
So what's your point?
That recession causes resentment and breeds revolution?
Well that's an earth shattering eureka moment isn't it?

With all due respect, as I stated in my last post, I honestly think you have little or no understanding of the actual details of Ireland and it's problems.

I suspect all you know is from history books portraying some romantic, nationalist rebel fighting oppression and injustice.
Oh, how far from the truth that image is.

I think that pretty much wraps it up!

reply to post by Freeborn

So what's your point?
That recession causes resentment and breeds revolution?
Well that's an earth shattering eureka moment isn't it?

Yes, that is my point.... did I say it was right? That it made sense? ... Was just adding to the convo before being attacked by British nationalist.

With all due respect, as I stated in my last post, I honestly think you have little or no understanding of the actual details of Ireland and it's problems.

Because I am an American?

My degree is in Irish history ironically.

I suspect all you know is from history books portraying some romantic, nationalist rebel fighting oppression and injustice.
Oh, how far from the truth that image is.

violence is violence, yes, and behind it is a cause. Its nothing new to the Ireland.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Because I am an American?

ironic given you dismiss the "mighty English" above *incorrectly I might add, as I'm not English*

My degree is in Irish history ironically.

jeez, you don't realise how ironic

reply to post by Rockpuck


My point exactly.
Your "knowledge" is from a textbook which has no basis in reality.

The majority of Irish people DO NOT SUPPORT THE IRA.
They never have done.

There maybe a romantic desire for a united Ireland, but not at the expense of killing innocent women and children.
There is also an acceptance that the REALITY of the situation is that the majority of people in Northern Ireland do not wish to be a part of any united Ireland and wish to remain within the United Kingdom.
They are FACTS.

The reality was drug running, extortionism, kneecapping and worse.
It long ceased to be about religion or politics years ago.
The Troubles was about control and profiteering.
That was the reality that it doesn't teach in your textbooks.
All your funding did was buy some smack for some poor sucker or kill some innocent child in Enniskillen.

I hope you are proud of yourself.

As much as like U2 I really dislike Bono's preaching but I really recommend you watch the video I posted previously to see what real Irish people think about it.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Rockpuck, do you support a united Ireland or the IRA?

The former I can understand (even though I disagree strongly).

The latter I cannot. This is an organisation that has caused so much trouble and heartbreak (not only to Britain but to the Irish too), has attempted to assassinate two British Prime Ministers (and came close in both instances), and used murder and terrorism to further its cause. It is no better than al-Qaeda

I've heard of a few Americans who openly admit to supporting the IRA, even after 9/11 (when the full extent of what terrorism can do was brought home to the US and vividly displayed to the world). It both worries and frustrates me.

And please, if anyone responds leave out the anti-American remarks. I am not anti-American.

Thankfully both sides have renounced violence and have agreed to pursue their policies peacefully and democratically, as they should. Ireland and the UK should work closely to ensure that this remains the case, and to thwart any attacks by dissident groups of either side.

As an American and as an Catholic of Irish descent I will be the first to say that terrorism is terrorism and I would turn in anyone I knew who was sending aid of any sort to the IRA. I have no tolerance for that crap.

Unfortunately there is quite a significant minority of Irish Americans who do support the IRA and continue to do so based on lies and false myths. My local US Congressman (Peter King) is a big supporter of the IRA and supposedly refused to tell the RUC Special Branch where he met with all the IRA leaders during the peace agreement precedings.

reply to post by Ste2652


I support a United Ireland, and do not support the violent actions of the IRA, and yes I realize there is a difference, but I can see where the IRA is coming from. Also, as I pointed out, earlier, the worsening economy typically leads to more irrational decissions which may or may not involve an increase in violence. Not condoning it, but I also am not entirely opposed simply because most people here are British. Violence begets Violence.

Also, I do not see you as "antiAmerican" .. in fact.. your the first rational person on this thread who has talked to me.. one guy called me all sorts of vulgarities.. so thanks for that.


[edit on 2/8/2008 by Rockpuck]

reply to post by ChrisF231


Indeed, it's important not to use absolute terms like 'all' and 'everyone'. A friend of my family is Irish - she was born in the Republic of Ireland and goes back often, has family there and she's a devout Catholic. Yet she was overjoyed when the peace process finally yielded results and supports the idea that Ireland would only be reunified if a democratic referendum was held and passed in the North.

The majority of people seem to have a similar view regardless of whether they are Republicans or Unionists. We just have to be extremely careful with these splinter groups that threaten the peace process. They don't care where their weapons and cash come from, so long as they get it (there was an RIRA member arrested in Eastern Europe trying to buy weapons, I believe, and the Libyans tried to ship weapons to them in the 1980s).

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Ste2652

 

I support a United Ireland, and do not support the violent actions of the IRA,

Bit of a backtrack from this isn't it?

"America did.

WE also ARMED them.

And I happen to support them still."

So which is it?
Do you support the killing of innocent people as you initially stated or don't you?

You repeatedly raise the economic climate of Ireland as a cause of The Troubles.
I assure you there are parts of England, Scotland and Wales that are at least as worse off as Northern or Southern Ireland but no-one from there uses it as an excuse to terrorise people.

The para-milataries from both sides had long ceased being idealistic freedom fighters or defenders of the realm and were, and to a lesser extent still are, nothing better than organised criminals who use the romantic nature of Irish people to further their own agenda's of exploitation and gangsterism.
They are terrorists on a par with Al-Qaeda and any attempt to justify their actions is bigoted nonsense.

The initial causes of The Troubles stretch back a thousand years.
At what point do you leave the past behind and deal with the reality of today and start moving forward to make Ireland, both North and South, a better place for all concerned?