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Dissidents 'inept but dangerous': Terrorist threat increase in N.Ireland

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posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 




Do you support the killing of innocent people as you initially stated or don't you?


Take quotes out of context all you want. I never said I condoned the violence, however, I also said I do not support a blanket opposition to their tactics simply because people here are British.

Violence Begets Violence, and if they continue to use violence in the manor they did, they will only backtrack the success made in the past few years. Diplomacy will bring about a united Ireland.



You repeatedly raise the economic climate of Ireland as a cause of The Troubles.


No, I never said that at all. I said that under a troubled economy, people are more likely to committ irrational acts of violence and or support movements that they other wise would not support (violent actions against civilians) ..

It was not the cause of the Troubles, and I never said it was.



The para-milataries from both sides had long ceased being idealistic freedom fighters or defenders of the realm and were, and to a lesser extent still are, nothing better than organised criminals who use the romantic nature of Irish people to further their own agenda's of exploitation and gangsterism.


I actually don't disagree at all. The organization was exploited and the united movement was setback because of the violence.. however, it is not to surprising that violence was the path chosen, as on both sides there was violence, and there where people murdered.



The initial causes of The Troubles stretch back a thousand years.
At what point do you leave the past behind and deal with the reality of today and start moving forward to make Ireland, both North and South, a better place for all concerned?


The past is hard to forget, and why should they forget. It is easier to talk about forgetting the past and moving on in a peaceful, everyone being happy, no more violence way.. then actually implementing that idea. If Ireland where united again, one thing I would be concerned about is former Unionist being treated as second class citizens, much like the protestants treated Catholics, but when ever the tides turned, Catholics treated Protestants in the same way.

This is why I hate organized religion.
But I believe nationalism plays a far bigger role then religion, at least, a hell of a lot more then what people make it out to be.




posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Freeborn
 




Do you support the killing of innocent people as you initially stated or don't you?




"America did.

WE also ARMED them.

And I happen to support them still."




Take quotes out of context all you want. I never said I condoned the violence, however, I also said I do not support a blanket opposition to their tactics simply because people here are British.


Seems pretty straight forward to me and quite impossible to take out of context.
You initially advocated support for an organisation which was conducting a terror campaign against innocent people.

You also seemed quite proud that the US continued to fund that violence.

Now that Ireland is going through a period of relative peace and prosperity you were quick to advocate the re-commencement of the armed struggle.

However, you do seem to have backtracked.




Violence Begets Violence, and if they continue to use violence in the manor they did, they will only backtrack the success made in the past few years. Diplomacy will bring about a united Ireland.



I agree with you; except there will never be a united Ireland unless the majority of people in Northern Ireland wish it.
The reality of it is that they don't; they wish to remain within the UK, and so they will.




The para-milataries from both sides had long ceased being idealistic freedom fighters or defenders of the realm and were, and to a lesser extent still are, nothing better than organised criminals who use the romantic nature of Irish people to further their own agenda's of exploitation and gangsterism.




I actually don't disagree at all. The organization was exploited and the united movement was setback because of the violence.. however, it is not to surprising that violence was the path chosen, as on both sides there was violence, and there where people murdered.


Some common ground.
The cause(s) became irrelevant because the majority of people in Northern Ireland disagreed with the cause(s) and as such the terrorists were losing control.
With that loss of control went the loss of power and money that went hand in hand with being a terrorist.

You are right, the past should not be forgotten but when people liv and dwell in the past and use some illusionary notion of a romantic freedom fighter to further justify the perpetuation of killing it achieves nothing.
The lessons of the past are there to be learnt from and then move on forward trying not to repeat the mistakes that were made in the past.
But for that to happen we have to accept the reality of today.
Unfortunately some Republicans refuse to accept the reality that the majority of people in Northern Ireland do not agree with them.



This is why I hate organized religion.


More common ground.



posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 




But for that to happen we have to accept the reality of today.
Unfortunately some Republicans refuse to accept the reality that the majority of people in Northern Ireland do not agree with them.


I do not know how the political structure is formed in the North Irish government.. (or the rest of the UK, it was never a focus of my studies in school) do they (or any other member of the UK) have a election .. amendment of sorts that lets the people decide whether to stay in the union or to leave?

In any case, in the unlikely (in near future) chance that the majority people of NI decide they want to be apart of the republic, do they have an election to decide this?

What would you say is the percentage of people who want to unite and those who want to remain British?



posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Home Rule, similar to that in Scotland and Wales resumed in 2007 with Ian Paisley, (DUP) First Minister and Martin McGuiness, (Sinn Fein), Deputy First Minister.

The was a plebiscite on whether Northern Ireland should remain in The Union or join The Republic held in 1973 with the overwhelming majority voting to remain within The Union.
Apparently it has been suggested, by politicians from all sides, that another vote should be held, but nothing has been agreed as of yet.

Approximately 53% of Northern Irelands population are Protestant and about 44% Catholic.

The mere fact that 2 men like Paisley and McGuiness can work together for the benefit of Northern Ireland is a measure of the progress made.
These men come from extremely opposing camps and previously had a relationship that can only be described as hateful.

All isn't peaches and cream in Northern Ireland, but things are getting better and the quality of life for the normal person in Northern Ireland has improved immensely.
All they want is the chance to get on with their lives, the same as the rest of us.

en.wikipedia.org...

[Edit, my bad grammar]


[edit on 10-2-2008 by Freeborn]



posted on Feb, 11 2008 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by infinite
 


America did.

WE also ARMED them.

And I happen to support them still.


how bloody sad


you know nothing about the troubles

the people of ireland is sick of the troubles, north and south
we are also sick of idiots who think it is right to arm these people who shoot and bomb innocent people.....

ireland is a great country and it is getting better and better without the threats of terror.

people were losing jobs, north and south for the simple fact, overseas companies were pulling out of ireland because they could not keep rebuilding their companies after an attack, so they moved to other countries, i lost 2 jobs for that reason, so did hundreds of other people.

my catholic friends who have lived all their lives in the north would move to england before they moved down south, not ONE has said they would like to live in the south.

we like living in peace and enjoy walking about the towns without the fear of getting shot at or blown-up..

this is the second time of my years on ATS where people have said they support terrorists of ireland and i am getting very sick of it, we just need a few osama bin laden supports now and you could all have your own thread..

do you also support the gangs in america or is that to close to home for comfort..

may the peace last and the idiots fade into the background just like the bad history of ireland.....



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
What would you say is the percentage of people who want to unite and those who want to remain British?


As of 2006, just over 50% of the inhabitants of Northern Ireland want to remain a part of the UK. About 30% want a united Ireland with the remainder splitting their views between other options (e.g. independence of both the UK and Ireland). If you averaged it out over the last decade I'd say you'd find about 55% in favour of the UK and 20-25% in favour of a united Ireland.

It generally remains pretty consistent, though events like the Belfast Agreement and the reopening of the Stormont Assembly do affect the poll ratings in one way or another.



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