Forbidden Egyptology

I've just caught up on the last few pages, and I've noticed on more than a couple instances comparisons being made between the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Greeks and Romans.

The thing is, the Ancient Greek and Roman civilizations, at their apex, came long after the early 4th Dynasty of the Ancient Egyptians when the Great Pyramid, and most of Giza really, is said to have been created.

In fact Ancient Roman engineering took some influence from the Egyptians. The Romans were known to take older ideas and concepts and improve on them, like cement for instance, which was first used in Egypt. Roman styles, methods, and technologies were influenced by the Greek's and the Etruscans(1200bc) as well.

As for the Ancient Greeks, sure they were master carvers of stone, but the classical age in sculpture didn't arrive until around 400 or 500 bc, some 2000 years after Giza. Also, as I understand, marble was relatively workable as it was being carved, not fully hardening until after it'd been exposed to the air.

So is it fair to say, " Well the Greeks and Romans had the same technology as the Egyptians and carved stone with the same tools." or "Why don't we question the Greeks and their methods of stone working?"

No, their technologies came much later and with more influence.

So I get confused when I hear the AR's and the AG's being compared to the AE's in terms of technological know how. And in terms of timeframe, it would almost be like comparing our modern day civilization with the Ancient Romans.

I'm still trying to work out where the Ancient Egyptians got their technological know how from.

as a side note:
The Great Pyramid (and the other Gizamids), regardless of what many refer to as just a pile of stones, is a marvel of engineering (amongst other things). And I think the 'pile of stones' description is a cop out and an attempt to play down what it would've taken to build these structures.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Along with these cogwheels from the museum in cairo.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

These are pretty cool. I hadn't ever seen those before. Wonder what time period they're from.

It has been repeatedly asked by both sides, “Where is the proof of pre-pyramid civilization?”
Barring the “lie of omission” (which I do believe is done frequently), victorious civilizations are commonly built on the rubble of the conquered. Likewise civilizations are abandoned due to famine, ECT. Not that these are explanations of pre-pyramid civilizations but it does raise the question:
What could be found under the buildings of modern Egypt some of which were built with the limestone casing of the great pyramid.

Has anyone seen the History Channel show “Life After People”?
All of our technology will decay without maintaince.
All of our structures will eventually decay, faster than you might think.
According to this show the Hoover Dam will probably be the last recognizable structure standing but sadly it too WILL fall.
Example given in the show is the city at Chernobyl: A relatively new city at the time of the accident. It is no longer radioactive but in the 30 or so years of neglect the decay is so bad that the “new” city is unsafe and unsalvageable.

Observations I have made in the three years I have had internet access:
There is geologic evidence of magnetic shifts of the earth.
There are ice core samples from our disappearing glacial caps that show evidence of climactic changes in the distant past.
There are reports of underground cities.
“We” have built a seed bank in Antarctica. (Just thought I’d throw that one in! )

This brings me to my final observation. IF Sanskrit writings do depict “flying cars” and nuclear type war could those people not also recognize the indicators of a magnetic shift? Would they not have built something big enough and stable enough to survive such an event and say “we were here”? As was stated earlier, a huge mostly solid Pyramid on a practically perfectly level surface seems like a decent “We were here”.

I know your arguments: The name of a pharaoh painted in a sealed room, hieroglyphs of instructions to work gangs on placement, and C14 mortar dates.
My answer to that is (as was also stated earlier) look at the problems of restoring the Parthenon “before it’s too late”. Not to mention the multiple layers of varying color on valuable paintings and murals that well meaning people have “restored” in our recorded history.

IMHO:
I understand that you can find “reasonable” sounding explanations on the internet for ANY theory you care to consider. I do not have the means to travel the world and see these artifacts for myself; let alone the formal education to translate Sanskrit, Sumarian, or Egyptian, nor do I personally know any one who does.
I have no doubt that there are people on this forum who are far more enlightened than I.
I also have absolutely NO doubt that there are people on this forum with far more formal education than I.
That being said, if you present an “uneducated” person with a proven fact that is far removed from their everyday life they will either scoff or panic.
By the same token if you present an “educated” person with theory that will rock their paradigm they scoff and thump their “accepted guide to history”.
Both examples reflect a closed mind. It’s not my place to try to open their mind.
I can only pose a question to myself and do my best to chase it to what I accept to be the answer. The trick for me becomes the labor intensive search for reputable sources on both sides of the question.
This thread has provided a multitude of links.
My new problems are “There ain’t enough time to chase ‘em all”!!! And I’m running out of memory on my computer!!!
Curiosityrising


[edit on 17-2-2008 by Curiosityrising]

reply to post by last time here

I also am listening!!!


[edit on 17-2-2008 by Curiosityrising]

These blocks show evidence of 'metal ties' used across the ancient world for securing important structures. The same style can be seen in Ollantaytmbo, but more importantly, also in ancient Egypt and even Angkor Wat.

Source; www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk...

Graham Hancock speak also that in Egypt are on a certain place stone blocks who are secured with Metal ties, but I cant find it so far.
Does anyone have an idea where to find this information?
Maybe it is also interesting for further discussion?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Hawass and other new agers


In the opening post I uncovered Hawass relationship to an ET-Chaneller.

What was known before this, was that Hawass is also friendly with the Edgar Cayce (another channeller) people:

Cayce and A.R.E.

THE ancient egypt authority who debunks new-agers on a regular basis is friends with those he ridicules in public.

I consider this proven.

[edit on 17-2-2008 by Skyfloating]

Skyfloating,

In pursuit of further information for your thread, I've been in contact via email with a person that was with Andrew Bayuk when he first met Hawass.

For newcomers to this thread, Bayuk is (was) the "channeler" Skyfloating is referencing in the above quote.

According to him, neither he nor Hawass was aware of Bayuk's former "channeling" activities.

In fact, this person told me that he was absolutely floored when he learned of this activity a decade or so after he had accompanied Bayuk on his Egyptian tour. A tour, I might add, that included access to every single site they requested, including some highly restricted sites (restricted because of ongoing work or because of the delicate [or valuable] nature of the relics at the site, IOW, restricted because of conservation and not because of pictures of E.T. helping with the pyramids! )

This was in the 1990's. He told me that it was because Hawass was impressed with Bayuk's "down to Earth" approach to Egyptian Archaeology that he not only gave them basically unlimited access but also that was what spurred Hawass to use Bayuk's "Guardian" site to host his own website.

I promised I wouldn't use this person's name, though most of what he told me is in the public record.

I will say that my source's website has been referenced innumerable times here at ATS and at least twice (iirc) right here in this thread, and not by me.

Of course, he could be lying. My opinion of this person, who has helped me personally in the past with some of the things I've written, precludes such a judgement. But, of course, you are free to believe what you will.

My source told me that Bayuk probably wouldn't mind being contacted and asked about this issue, as long as the questioner kept the tone friendly and asked purely out of curiosity and was not confrontational.

I provided you with two ways to contact Bayuk. I suggest you ask him yourself and put your answers in this thread.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Thanks for the research done. Rather than contacting Bayuk and giving him a hard time for his private beliefs, I suggest contacted Hawass. Hawass is the one denying any interest in "new age nut-jobs".


But again: Well done Harte

[edit on 18-2-2008 by Skyfloating]

Spooks and New-Agers


Actually, in the book "The Stargate Conspiracy" the authors Prince/Picknett have proven that egyptology is rife with new-agers, spooks and other non-mainstream interest groups.

When asking "why?" my answer is: Because something other is going on there than we are being told.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Spooks and New-Agers


Actually, in the book "The Stargate Conspiracy" the authors Prince/Picknett have proven that egyptology is rife with new-agers, spooks and other non-mainstream interest groups.

When asking "why?" my answer is: Because something other is going on there than we are being told.

I am aware of a few (very few) Egyptologists that got started because of their "fringe" ideas. I say "few" because, hey, it's not like I hang out with Egyptologists or whatever. I only know of a few Egyptologists in the first place.

But, the book you reference, judging by the title (and, yes, I know the old adage) most likely treats any Egyptologist that has this sort of background in what I would consider to be an unfair manner.

I say this because of my own experiences. It might surprise some here to learn that I was myself quite certain that the "lost continent" of Atlantis had existed sometime in the past. I sought information concerning this on my own but eventually came to realize that I had been wrong.

Would you today characterize me as a believer in Atlantis? Perhaps I am and I'm here as a "disinformation" effort?

Hardly. Those of you who have read my posts read me quite well. I'm the guy that won't believe a thing merely because you state in your posts that it is true. Where do you suppose I came by this attitude? I'll tell you. It stems from believing a thing because someone (VonDaniken, Hancock, et al.) stated it and it fit well with my own need to have some of this stuff be real and then later finding out that I was not only wrong, but that I had literally been lied to by the above-named authors (among others.)

So it's not much of a stretch to me that some Egyptologists may have had fringe beliefs upon entering the field. Whatever their motivation, they have no doubt come to the same, or similar, equilibrium on these ideas that I have reached, i.e., let's stick with the established facts and the observed evidence. ALL else is mere speculation.

I doubt very much that your referenced book takes into consideration that people's ideas do change.

Mine did.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


I appreciate the path you have taken and what you have found out.

However, dont judge a book by its title. When I picked up "The Stargate Conspiracy" I was hoping to find something to confirm my fringe beliefs in extraterrestrial egypt, etc. The contents of the book is quite different though.

The theory of the book is quite opposite...namely that egyptology has been hijakced by spooks and new agers who conspire to spread fringe information.

The book might even interest you.

[edit on 18-2-2008 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Harte


By your activity of the last months on ATS it is apparent that you are seriously fed-up with non-mainstream and extraterrestrial-archaeology/history. But bear with us and forgive us for continuing to persue the field.

reply to post by spacevisitor


I will admit that I too once saw a documentary of mental ties being used in egypt...and that information about it seems to have disappeared from the internet. Google couldnt help me with this.

this is a GREAT thread.........i applaud you ALL!!!!!!!!!!

Let me say here that these sort of metal clamps were used in Mesoamerica as well, or maybe it was South America.

I have read that the alloy, or the state of the metal, used in the clamps was somewhat anomalous in that to forge that sort of metal requires higher temperatures that is currently believed to be within the technology of the natives that did so.

If this matter has not been settled, then we have here another one of those rarest of things here at ATS, a genuinely anomalous relic from the past.

Maybe someone could look into this and see if this decades-old claim was ever explained away?

Harte

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

I will admit that I too once saw a documentary of mental ties being used in egypt...and that information about it seems to have disappeared from the internet. Google couldnt help me with this.

Exactly, and that is very strange, I searched and searched on google, but so far nothing.
But I don’t give up already, so who knows.

First hit with clamps, but I don’t know it it is absolute proof.



www.matthnelson.com...

www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk...

Graham Hancock,

Tiwanaku is one of only three places in the ancient world to use metal I-clamps to join cut blocks together, the others being ancient Egypt and Angkor Wat, Cambodia –

Source; jcolavito.tripod.com...


Graham Hancock,
Search on clamps in this scribd,

www.scribd.com...




[edit on 18/2/08 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 18/2/08 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 18/2/08 by spacevisitor]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Harte

 

By your activity of the last months on ATS it is apparent that you are seriously fed-up with non-mainstream and extraterrestrial-archaeology/history. But bear with us and forgive us for continuing to persue the field.

Actually, I don't mind other people having opinions. I do mind having to continually make the same arguments over and over every couple of months, as a "new batch of believers" comes through.

I am not amused by the way that some members here insist that I provide references (which I've provided before over my years as a member) to back up the facts I've pointed out (over my years as a member) that tend to refute a claim that they have made here (without any evidence or even, in most cases, any reference at all - just going off memory.)

People don't realize how long this takes. People, that is, that never do it themselves. So much easier for me to say "use the search function," which is about all I've said that might be construed as being "fed up."

What is a search function for, after all? If you search for my posts, you're gonna find some really interesting and heated debates on many subjects here. Most times you'll find both myself and others - including those in opposition - providing references and citations.

You wanna know about the Egyptian lunar calendar and why it cannot explain away the 9,000 years Plato claims come after Atlantis? I've told you this twice here at ATS.

Wanna know what they're talking about when they say that "somebody"mined a boatload of copper in Michigan in prehistory? I've written on that extensively here as well.

The helicopter hieroglyphs, the "Pharoahs glider," the crystal skulls, the Dogon, the Dropa, the "star maps" found in Egyptian tombs, the Annunaki, Stonehenge, Ooparts, flood myths, you name it, I've been in the discussion here.

Imagine having to go back over all that again!

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

Actually, I don't mind other people having opinions. I do mind having to continually make the same arguments over and over every couple of months, as a "new batch of believers" comes through.

Yes...but why bother anymore? What is your motivation for doing so? Is it a habit to click on ATS...a website antagonistic to mainstream thought...instead of mainstream-friendly forums?

I am not amused by the way that some members here insist...

Obviously not.

You wanna know about the Egyptian lunar calendar and why it cannot explain away the 9,000 years Plato claims come after Atlantis? I've told you this twice here at ATS.

Yes, you´ve told me twice. And since your statement "There is no reason to believe in Atlantis AT ALL" has fallen on my deaf ears...I wonder where you get your persistence to continue.

Wanna know what they're talking about when they say that "somebody"mined a boatload of copper in Michigan in prehistory? I've written on that extensively here as well.

The helicopter hieroglyphs, the "Pharoahs glider," the crystal skulls, the Dogon, the Dropa, the "star maps" found in Egyptian tombs, the Annunaki, Stonehenge, Ooparts, flood myths, you name it, I've been in the discussion here.Imagine having to go back over all that again!

I´m imagining it.

But apparently there´s still a straw of suspicion or hope in you that someday something truly anomalous will be offered here. Otherwise you probably wouldnt show up.

reply to post by spacevisitor


OK...we have CLAMPS now...thats one step forward.

I may be remembering this wrong, but plato never once mensions a date for Atlantis, merely states in a time passed, this adds to the speculation that it was an idealistic story that he made up to remind the Greeks of the time how fragile a eutopia can be, and how easily it can be lost (someone cited 9,000 years?)

I MUST be understanding this wrong, because i see time and again people asking for proof of cultures before Egypt... Assyria, Babylonia...Sumeria?!?! do these mean nothing to people? these have been PROVEN by main stream acrchaeology to have existed, and not only existed, but to have fashion, judicial systems, religious systems, trade craft and many more, they were just like us!! Only older...alot older.

Wall of jericho?? i remember reading that the wall as well as some surrounding settlements (not small villages with wicker huts, but actual mud bricks and mortar) was like 12,000-15,000 years old!!

The vase that keeps getting referenced, apparently ( i don't think it looks like it, but it has been stated, and not on here) to resemble a fly wheel off a car. Personally, to me it looks like something i saw in 'hunt for zero point', there is a diagram of an engine supposedly designed during WW2 as an alternate duel, basically the same as a fan, but the way it is designed, is to suck air into the middle and compress it until it implodes, then explodes. I have looked for images on the internet, but i cant find them, but if u go to a local bookstore, I'm sure u can skim through the pages to find it, you'll see what i mean

I haven't seen an ADEQUATE explanation for my previous questions, why are some later pyramids still using dated design? why have no other pyramids to date been discovered with an ascending passage? why don't they angle the 53 degree? why opt for the safer 42 (the bent pyramid is a failed attempt, 53, with 42 half way up due to instability) Heres a few new ones, If Khufu built the Main pyramid, and the rest followed, then surely the area around it would've been largely empty space, yet his son opted to build his pyramid, a fair distance from his fathers...interesting? How about the smaller pyramid attached to the Great pyramid? that IS adorned with hieroglyphs and claiming to be Khufu's, yet his main one, the EPIC MONUMENT has no mention of him?

I liked walkingfox's idea that it was merely a monument to say, "hey look what we did!!" but i find it highly irregular that they did not acknowledge this, lol, they didn't leave building plans, hell not even and inscription that says Khufu was ere', just a giant mystery. Why say "hey look what we built!! only to say, we can't prove it though"

Some questions, can someone verify the height of both the main pyramids, not the smaller one ( i Believe this was a model, in which to build the bigger ones) from sea level.

If the Egyptians did build the pyramids, for what purpose? Many built since (and before) were for burial purposes, yet the Giza pyramids have all been subject to intrusive burials from a later date, I'm not sure if this has been verified yet, so i apologise, but it is my belief

The Inventory stella suggests that the Giza pyramid is the western mountain of Hathor....where is the Eastern one?

Why does every polytheistic religion from the ancient world have a 12 god pantheon? dating from the Sumerian's up to the Romans? Because they were all based on a founding religion?

Harte, I understand fully were you are coming from, If i had had your experience, i probably would have trouble believe anything again, but because you were never caught on your leap of faith doesn't mean you should never leap again, only you should take caution in future. I believe in Atlantis, i believe in Lumeria, not because I have read about them and thought "that sounds cool, ill believe in that" but because I felt it was right, I have always believed in what felt right, not what I was told is right, I'm sure your experiences have taught you a similar philosophy.

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers


Atlantis was a contemporary of Athens, according to Plato... seeing as how the two nations went to war. And Atlantis lost.

Why say "hey look what we built!! only to say, we can't prove it though"

Well, if you're building a gigantic edifice to your nation's greatness, I doubt that you're thinking about the possibility that your nation will cease to exist

[edit on 18-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]