Originally posted by Digital_Reality

Oh yeah John Lear, Great guy. Its unfortunate that he is not a CM anymore. I valued his comments and enjoyed the posts he made regarding the moon pics.

i think an even more unfortunate turn was how all of his threads went into skunk works. Isn't that basically discrediting everything he ever put on this site? Seems like a slap in the face to someone who undoubtedly generated lots of traffic and memberships for this site.

I don't think we need to know the reasons for this 'spat'... l would personally step back for a while and think about what's best for all, the answer is clear and while there are differences between people here.. obviously... I think for a forum that's not a bad thing (regardless of rank) that's what ATS is built on... its what we do.

Just my opinion for what its worth, but I don't know the whole story so there may be good reasons behind decisions made on both sides.

WOW

A real ATS conspiracy... and this time it is about ATS itself.

Lies, counter-intel, cover-up, banishment, and dirty laundry... all involving the highest levels of ATS. All I can say is wow... talk about deny ignorance!

We have been had, and never even got a kiss! I am so tired of being lied to by people that I trust. Even though I am ticked John would just walk away from all his fans here, I am not surprised by his actions. This is a guy who has been there, done that. Walks the walk, and talks the talk. Takes it, and fires right back. If the price is right, he's your man. He will bite if provoked!

But to be honest... SO and Springer, I feel like you really let us down by trying to cover it up, and make it go away by being telling us John had voluntarily flipped us all off... then we find out he was banned.

Today I face my own ignorance of being stupid enough to believe that ATS is a family. I guess the real truth is that when the SHTF it's CYA, and every man for himself. Sorry, but you guys screwed up big time with this one. If I was a Mod, I'd slap a WARN on all of ya for being dishonest, and screwing with our heads.

Now... will you guys PLEASE just shake hands and make up so we can get back to the business of saving the world? We may be a dysfunctional family... but we put the "fun" in dysfunction.

Originally posted by Balez
John Lear have voiced nothing more than possibilites, and got flamed for it by many, because there are no facts behind his claims.

The realm of possibilities is endless. To get closer to reality, whatever it is, one would do well to concentrate on those possibilities backed up even by small but reliable facts, rather than to drown in a bottomless ocean of what can't be precluded, such as: human civilization on Earth is secretly governed by Supreme Being Zmorrg, who resides in the center of a neutron star. That's a possibility, right?

There have been numerous cases when John's claims were incompatible with facts. What do you think of that?

Any "baiting" or first strike -- was done by those asking questions in which they knew very well he could not answer to their liking. If he says he believes that many of the planets in our solar system are inhabited on a thread or forum -- must mean he has 100% solid evidence that would convince even you? Obviously if the evidence was that freaking great, he'd present it in a much larger way for everyone to see. Get a clue and have some common sense. It's that sort of disrespectful ignorance 'innocently' thrown at Mr. Lear all the time, that makes him reply/not reply the way he does. He's no more disrespectful then what respect was shown to him in the first place. Mr. Lear has stated MANY times that what he claims, are only his opinion. He DOES NOT have to repeat this in every single post he makes and any attack on that particular regard -- is baiting and nothing short of trolling. These people know very well who they are and what they were doing... and I find it quite hard to believe that the staff of ATS could not see this. Pretending to be ignorant in order to draw a desired response, so that the grounds/reason for attack are laid -- should be punnishable.

I don't think it's very difficult to see who is genuine and who is trolling -- and there is such a thing as trolling without breaking the T&C. This needs to be addressed by the ownership -- otherwise it will lead to the eventual downfull of ATS. And that would be a shame.

[edit on 4/2/08 by Navieko]

When I had heard what seemed to be an unedited version of a phone conversation with JL on ATS mix, it seemed as if he was going off the deep end and saying more than he might have about his personal life than otherwise. I don't really know JL so it's not fair to knock the guy down anymore than that. (Personally, it seemed more like goading to me.) I think he's given just about all he can on this issue for now and needs some alone time, therapy, a checkup or whatever.

It seems we are in some weird and desperate times and it shows on this site. People appear to instinctively know that "something" is coming or want it to already. So, don't shoot the messenger if he can't tell us everything.

For all we know, John is heading for one of those bunkers we've already heard about in the conspiracy section.

[edit on 4-2-2008 by aleon1018]

This isn't the first time that John has used his popularity to try to influence the board. Remember when sleepers thread was moved to Skunkworks, sleeper was going to take his leave. John then said that he wasn't going to post until it was moved. That's blackmail and we had members back him up on the board.

John thinks his popularity will give him the leverage to do as he will. There were things going on behind the scenes that John was involved in and counting on his fans to come out of a situation, which he was a part of, clean.

ATS isn't above any member despite how popular they may be. And the board is NO ONES pulpit. Take this as you will, just because a member is popular doesn't make them right. It doesn't give them the right to hold the board hostage because of ones own ego.

John is entertaining as hell, I enjoy his posts but the fact that he wants to garner support from those that enjoy his posts, rather than handling this via proper channels, speaks volumes. It's an "I'm going to do what I want" attitude. That isn't the ATS way. It's about collaboration, not manipulation.

Normally I stay out of this kind of drama, but I have to say good job to ATS staff on their handling of this. I have no opinion on John Lear so I consider my opinion neutral in this situation. It is quite apparent that there are people on this forum who love to sling poo and that is just what is happening here. They sit and wait for any chance to attack any form of authority. Some people just love to disagree and will jump on the bandwagon just to keep it going.
Springer I feel you made everything perfectly clear and there is no need for further explanation. If anyone wants to know John's point of view I am sure he is easy to get ahold of through emails, but I seriously doubt he will respond that way because that is far from the public attention he seems to crave.
As for John, I really don't care if he stays or goes. There is plenty of other interesting subjects here and I am sure someone just as good or better will step in to fill any void left behind.
I also commend you Springer and the ATS staff on your ability to control your anger in situations like this.

As a confirmed high priest of Learology I must protest this outrageous and unfortunate turn of events!

In my own studies the material I have discovered is far more outlandish than John's claims and some of the people are truly insane, like so many JLs cubed! What this represents is a victory for mediocrity!

Go back to your SUVs and sterile universe, and keep paying the man to keep you down!

(now I will go dig to find out what really happened...)

Originally posted by intrepid
John thinks his popularity will give him the leverage to do as he will. There were things going on behind the scenes that John was involved in and counting on his fans to come out of a situation, which he was a part of, clean.

With all due respect, I think that's a bit harsh. John from the get-go has been a very good friend of Sleeper's, and it was well known that he'd be pissed off and do the things he did -- if Sleeper's thread was moved. How can you say he wouldn't do the same if he was not popular at all? It was his fans that brought him back in the first place. But what did you expect of him? To not share his feelings or follow his beliefs, just because he has supporters who might share the same opinions? You act as if his supporters are sheep who are unable to think for themselves. It was their choice to voice their opinion/support, and they have that right. That is what ATS is all about, isn't it?

[edit on 4/2/08 by Navieko]

Originally posted by Navieko
If he says he believes that many of the planets in our solar system are inhabited on a thread or forum -- must mean he has 100% solid evidence that would convince even you?

Oh please... You know full well that nobody ever asked John to present autographs of aliens from Neptune or MP3 records of Venusian love songs. People were hungry even for crumbs of something that might be interpreted as real facts. John posted a record the experiment with alleged piece Element 115 which was done in his presence by Bob Lazar. I personally find many details of the apparatus really weird and question whether it would function at all the way John described it. That's fine by me. Then again, I feel I have the right to post my analysis of the presented facts.

But in a separate case, John insists that there is breathable atmosphere on the moon. This contradicts the known facts such as absense of atmospheric phenomena during lunar occultation of stars, among other things. The very presence of multiple craters speaks volumes against such possibility. In my view (and you may disagree) the pronouncement of such atmosphere is demonstrably false and in violation of item (1.) of T&C. John has also directly violated (1h) on one occasion.

Just an observation.

How does one go about cancelling membership, cannot seem to find it on any board business pages...maybe not looking hard enough?

Personally with John gone, ATS is not a place I will frequent any longer.

I originally came here for ALL of the conspiracies, but John captivated my attention, Yes I know alot of his claims were unsupportable, but they made you think at least...even if afterwards you said to yourself "that was utter crap!"...

I am less inclined to continue my membership when what I am left with is..."I am an indigo child and light warrior"..."Demon outside my window"...or "Anyone have superhuman powers?"...

I'm sorry, I have teenagers aplenty in my house, if I want to read or hear "Am I a Vampire?" or "I'm from and a ancient royal alien bloodline"...I'll just pop into my kids rooms when they have been smoking...

thanks for the memories...

Originally posted by buddhasystem
But in a separate case, John insists that there is breathable atmosphere on the moon. This contradicts the known facts such as absense of atmospheric phenomena during lunar occultation of stars, among other things. The very presence of multiple craters speaks volumes against such possibility. In my view (and you may disagree) the pronouncement of such atmosphere is demonstrably false and in violation of item (1.) of T&C. John has also directly violated (1h) on one occasion.

Just an observation.

But you see, that would assume John shares the same trust that you have, on the grounds in which these 'facts' were acknowledged. He believes, as do I, that we don't know near as much as we think we do -- in regards to the universe.
Having this belief, gives credence to any possibility... in which case, arguing such specific -- yet strictly limited points, leads nowhere. He simply cannot give you what you ask for, because he does not know. But given the grounds for his belief, that also doesn't make it a false.

[edit on 4/2/08 by Navieko]

I'm afraid this thread is turning into something we seek to avoid... far too many making a critical analysis of the man... especially since he's not currently able to respond to some of what's being said. That's not right, and that's not what ATS is about.

I think everything has been said that needs to be said... hurt feelings expressed... the issue is in the open, as well as John's side (such as it is).

Let's defer to cooler heads after a breather and let John and ownership work things out behind the scenes.

John's contribution to general awareness on several interesting subjects is tremendous and no matter what you think of his position or posting style, his legacy of content doesn't deserve a public vilification... nor will we allow it here on ATS.

This thread is closed pending any updates from our off-site discussions with John.