John McCain was born in Panama

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
reply to post by robwerden

 

However, this is interesting. I believe he would be the first president ever to be born in a foreign country..

Actually the first bunch were all born in England...

That's why they wrote it this way:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by Djarums
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Laws are often unfair, Jarums. Let's say his mother's waters broke when she was outside the base in a town 30 miles away, and she was rushed to a local hospital where whe gave birth to a healthy boy. Is he still eligible?

Yes, he's eligible, as the child of American citizens serving in the U. S. military. There are millions of us!

Here is my point of view and it is not based on law it is based on the dumb animal we call the human being.

If the Democrats decide to swift vote McCain at the last second with this, it will play out as a bad thing for the Republican party. Not because the statement would be true, but because it was said and people tend to think if it is said on TV it must be true.

Putting McCain up as the nominee is bad enough with his liberal legislation record already being used against him by other Republicans running against him. A bomb shell swift vote like this that puts his eligibility in question will destroy any chance of the Republicans maintaining the White House.

reply to post by robwerden

Putting McCain up as the nominee is bad enough with his liberal legislation record already being used against him by other Republicans running against him. A bomb shell swift vote like this that puts his eligibility in question will destroy any chance of the Republicans maintaining the White House.

US Con. Article 2, Section 1, Clause 4. "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States."

Article 1. Section 8. “The Congress shall have power . . Clause 18. To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.”

Amendment XIV Section 1. “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside . . nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

Knowing how to apply the Constitution is not always easy. Or obvious.




[edit on 1/31/2008 by donwhite]

Originally posted by robwerden
What does it say about our society that no one is talking about this when it is clearly a subject that could destroy his run for the nomination.

My feeling is the Democrats are saving this for the General Election. Something like this could be pulled out the day before the general election vote to destroy the chances of the Republican party from getting the White House.

What does his place of birth have anything to do with it at all ???

His father was a brilliant and respected Navy Admiral. John Mc Cain himself is a respected and honored American Hero. Being born in Panama or even Nazi Germany wont change the fact that he is a true American and I dont think anybody in Washington, Republican or democrat can question his credentials as an American.

The law states that if a person is born to American citizens residing on military bases in foreign countries, than that person is considered by law to be a legal American citizen. Period. That's all there is to it. I was a military brat.

reply to post by robwerden


If the Democrats pull this, I may just have to break my straight-Dem record. Luckily, Democrats aren't quite that stupid, so I don't think it'll be necessary.

Of course, there's always the party that claimed McCain had an illegitimate black child to contend with, as well as the voter base that thinks that such an "issue" actually matters.

McCain's liberal record? I think you're confusing "not a complete fascist freak of nature and shame against the country" with being "liberal." The guy's hardly liberal and as we speak is singing hte praises of eternal war and tonguebathing dubya's scrote. But at least he's got more sense than the other Republicans, which I guess in modern GOP circles can be construed as being lliberal

Is it common practice for a country to only consider people being born in the country for head of state, or only in the USA?

Honestly, what is the difference between someone who arrived in the country, when he/she was 1 year old and someone born there?

If you are accepted as an immigrant and obtain the US citizenship, you have all the same rights as someone born in the USA, isn't (right to vote, became a politician in various place, city, state, etc.), so why restrict it for president?

reply to post by PopeyeFAFL

Is it common practice for a country to only consider people being born in the country for head of state, or only in the USA? Honestly, what is the difference between someone who arrived in the country, when he/she was 1 year old and someone born there? If you are accepted as an immigrant and obtain the US citizenship, you have all the same rights as someone born in the USA, isn't (right to vote, became a politician in various place, city, state, etc.), so why restrict it for president?

I believe it is a custom older than the nation state to consider yourself to be one of the people who are born in a particular place. Perhaps it is akin to the bonding between a newborn and its mother, that you have a special love for the first place you see. People regarded themselves as Germans long before Germany became a country. 1869. Same for Italians which did not become a unified country until the 1840s. France was unified in 1648.

People began coming here in 1609 but by the 1775 Revolutionary War, most of the 3 million inhabitants of the 13 colonies had been born here. In the 1870-1910 period, about 40% of the people were from other countries.

Our Constitution provides for “uniform laws of naturalization” and the 14th Amendment lays out the rights to both classes. The same. See my post above. But you cannot be president or vice president if you were not a “natural” born citizen. As opposed to a naturalized citizens. Because that is what the Constitution says. See my post above.

[edit on 1/31/2008 by donwhite]

Originally posted by Djarums
Being born to American citizens who are serving their country and making sacrifices living on a United States Military base does NOT exclude one from running for President.

And isn't that a good thing. I can't believe that some people believe this is an issue.

I wonder if John McCain is a dual citizen? I personally, as armchair Supreme Court judge, would allow that he is an American citizen and would call anyone who said he wasn't, a scalawag.

Should dual citizens be allowed to be president? Bush is surrounded by dual citizens and the US has the Amero/Israeli foreign policy to prove it. Has this issue ever come up before?

What about Arnie Schwarzenegger, was he born in a US occupation zone? Surely all this fuss about laws is passé anyway in modern Bushmerica?

The whole bit about being a natural born citizen comes from god old Tom Jefferson. Because he hated Alexander Hamilton, we have this bit to prevent a long dead statesman from becoming President. You may recall there were some murmerings a few years ago about dumping this provision so Arnlod Schwartzen---gonna get the censor activated--er could run for PotUS. It was not dropped nor altered.

Although,as much as I would like to be entertained with a Schwartzen-Ventura ticket; it is quite unlikely to happen.

Politically speaking about odd occurances. Had the Philipeans accepted statehood (was offered 3 times) no other state would have more influence than they would due to the population. As much as we laughed at the election of Mrs Marcos after the coruption of her husband Ferdinand. The US could very well offer the same joke for them with Mrs. Clinton after the near impeachment of Bill...what was that about learning from history and repeating it?

There are many valid arguments for why McCain should not be President*, but this is not one of them.

By the way, such a publicized argument would be referred to as "swiftboating", not "swift voting".

* such as his belief that my children's children's children should fight in this "war"

reply to post by Djarums


In reality, military bases and embassies are not US soil. Alaska and Hawaii are (I guess if you want to consider 'territories' like Guam and PR US soil that works) the only noncontiguous land forms that I would consider part of the US.

People like Arnold (naturalized US citizens) shouldn't be allowed in any form of government in my opinion, especially President.

McCain simply was not born on US soil. Simple as that. He should not be allowed to run for President by proxy.

The law may be different than my opinion, but if you're not born in a country how can you possible be considered a citizen by birth. Sure you can become naturalized, but thats not the same thing as being a 'natural born' citizen.

Ok Kerry in the last election and McCain in this one. Is it possible that they are paving the way for Naturalized citizens gaining position of President say for instance someone from Mexico?

If your parents are U.S. citizens and one lived in the U.S. for any length of time, you are a citizen no matter where you were born. Panama, the Moon, the Andromeda galaxy, it doesn't matter.

Constitutional Topic: Citizenship (emphasis added)

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Anyone born inside the United States.
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.

This is the dumbest thread I've ever read.

Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 1-2-2008 by sanctum]

Horrible choice for president....all the celebs seem to be backing him now...Oh well couldn't care at all- Ron Paul 08- thats all I gotta say about that.

Here is the text of the Constitution.

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

McCain was born as a citizen of the USA, and not of any other nation, under laws of the USA and Panama.

A naturalized citizen must have been a citizen of somewhere else first by definition; a natural born citizen is not.

The 13th amendment says that all persons born in the United States (and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, precluding diplomats' children) are citizens, but this does not limit the definition of natural born U.S. citizens.

There is no requirement that the birth must be within the physical territory of the USA---even in 1789 they had ships which traveled from place to place.

McCain is a natural born U.S. citizen.

There is no valid legal challenge to McCain becoming president for this reason.

If the Dems try to bust this out, they won't need to, but if they did, it would be the ultimate backfire, and would hurt them way more than possibly helping. They won't though so it doesn't matter.