MacHeads: the Cult of Macintosh

"I've had no problem installing things like an Airport Extreme" my my.. you've installed apple hardware on apple hardware.. great... to be honest windows is better off without users who click on the "you've won" advert.

Originally posted by spitefulgod
@Dr_Suess

I would like to change osx's font renderer since it's...... well crap.. please point me in the right open source direction.

apple.com

Was that the right direction?

Seriously though, I am not sure if OSX is using font rendering from FreeBSD. You should try a BSD forum or you could simply use x11 on your mac and then tweak the font rendering on that.

Oh! I get it now. You thought you were being clever. You thought that OSX could only run one type of font rendering. You are so clever and wrong. To bad for you. I am beginning to think this board has been infiltrated by MicroSoft disinfo agents.

Originally posted by spitefulgod
"I've had no problem installing things like an Airport Extreme" my my.. you've installed apple hardware on apple hardware.. great... to be honest windows is better off without users who click on the "you've won" advert.

Wow, speaking of cults...I think we have a winner!

A Dr please point me in the right direction for the renderer change, My gf's mac is crap, the OS renderer looks like I'm using firefox... I would love to get some readable text...



seriously...

Originally posted by Dr_Suess
The ford/chevy cult has nothing to do with the claim that one is cooler than the other. The ford/chevy cult even has spiritual leaders. These leaders hold spiritual contests that last for days (nascar races). I have seen people get into physical altercations about brands of cars. Never seen that with computers.

ah, supreme example, point taken. Well then, I suppose we can put those types of people in this same category.

The discussion so far is helping direct focus, and clarify the topic of this post. It would be helpful to point out, that we are clearly talking about a much different animal than brand loyalty. Brand loyalty will keep you coming back, but does not describe the emotional attachment involved to the brand, and all mentions of it.

Your Chevy/Ford analogy is good, but I think it's more comparable to the computer world than you are admitting to. Chevy/Ford enthusiasts (under assumption) are familiar with working on cars, which takes a decent amount of physical fitness and strength. Working on computers takes less physical requirements, so perhaps the same types of people, may attack each other in methods appropriate to their capabilities. In a nutshell - truck driver punches because that's what he knows - a computer nerd flames you on a message board, because that's what he knows.

Again, this is a step above a simple "brand loyalty," in which any mention of the said brand will trigger an onslaught of programmed propaganda!

Originally posted by scientist
funny, but I use protools as well. In fact, I bought the G5 when it came out, just for ProTools. It wasn't any faster than my PC, that cost $1000+ less.

Just because you can't figure out how to configure a stable machine, doesn't mean Mac is better. It's just a bit more idiot-proof (no offense intended).

Good to talk to another PT user.
I never said macs are better/faster, just that in my experience they've been more reliable. Even in a studio with a full time IT staff, the PCs I've used to record were nothing but trouble. This reminds me a lot of conversations with people who favor other editing programs. They don't understand why I use Pro Tools when there are other cheaper alternatives that are 'just as good.' Why do you choose to use PT over a cheaper DAW?

I have no experience building websites, but with iweb I had a personal portfolio up within minutes, and it gave me all the options I needed.


exactly. so you use Mac, which takes all the hard work out.

Right, because more work is not necessarily a good thing. Regarding configuring my own PC - Just because I drive a car doesn't mean I want to know how to take it apart and put it back together. I'm sure you enjoy assembling computers, I don't have any interest in it.

reply to post by spitefulgod


www.bsdforums.org...

Thats a good place to start with the technical questions. Be careful though, try searching the forum before you ask. They really want you to do some of the work before they hold your hand and walk you through it.

Originally posted by spitefulgod
There are millions of forums for Mac vs PC threads, can we use ats for the mind boggling greatness it is. someone close this thread!!!!

Scientist you on el reg?

Please take the time to read my original post, where I stated TWICE in bold, that:

This is NOT a Mac vs PC thread.

like I said, I stated it twice:

This is NOT a Mac vs PC thread.

I cannot make that any clearer. This is about the cult mentality that surpasses brand loyalty.

Asking to close this thread is a bit insulting, actually. I'd prefer you just put me on ignore... or better yet, refrain from commenting off topic in the future, thanks.

Originally posted by InnocentBystander
Good to talk to another PT user.
I never said macs are better/faster, just that in my experience they've been more reliable. Even in a studio with a full time IT staff, the PCs I've used to record were nothing but trouble.

hey PT brother, ha. Well I have the exact opposite experience. I was running PT on PC for a few years, then the G5 came out. I bought that along with the Digi002r. Guess what... nothing but problems, latency, digital distortion, etc. from the mac. Plug it in the pc.. no problems... plug it in another pc... no problems. Now, I didn't jump the gun and say to myself "well, obviously PC is the only option." But I did say.. "gee, I thought mac was the plug and play company...."

Then I tried to get some support from apple care (which was not cheap BTW). Anyways, I learned my lesson and eventually got it working after a few nights of constant tinkering. I have had issues just as bad with PCs in the past, so it's not like this was an exclusive mac issue... but it was certainly not what I had been expecting.

Right, because more work is not necessarily a good thing.

yes, and no. If you put together a website, without knowing how it really works... then you are limited as to how customized you can make it, and how secure and efficient it is. Nothing wrong with that, but you can extrapolate that to Mac as a whole. They are made more for people who want stuff to "just work" without really caring how it works. Obviously, this is inherent with having a small market share - it's always a niche demographic that actually gets into the nuts and bolts of things. WIth mac, it happens to be a niche within a niche - but I'm more than aware of all the hardcore mac devs and etc.

Just because I drive a car doesn't mean I want to know how to take it apart and put it back together. I'm sure you enjoy assembling computers, I don't have any interest in it.

I can tell by your logical approach to this topic, you are not of the aforementioned iCult - however, I hope my explanations has at least put a little more light on my perception of said cult mentality.

There is nothing technical about this. It has nothing to do with drivers, or speed, or motherboards, or how well PT works. I'm talking about the people who don't know about any of that stuff, yet still profess superiority... but it's more than that. Some of them get extremely emotional over the subject, as if they were the inventors of ipod/osx/g5/airbook/etc.

Getting defensive / offended over a corporate product is just scary to me.

reply to post by scientist


My point was to show you how they are the same. I think it worked. I think it really has to do with the larger issue of advertising than just a specific brand. Imagine you own brand x and you want to have such blind loyalty to brand x that people will buy it no matter how good the actual product is. This is really what sales and advertising is all about. Apple just happens to be really good at it.

Sorry Scientist

I'm leaving this thread anywho it's peeing me off...

And Dr S.. let's face it you can't change the OSX renderer since Apple don't like you touching their #, it maybe based on freebsd but that's mearly a foundation and no little hacker in his shed will ever influence what goes on in OSX.

Yes Apple is a cult, just look at their leader he looks like a nutcase leader, if he stated "you need to sacrifice your first born to own one"... they'd do it

Originally posted by Dr_Suess
This is really what sales and advertising is all about. Apple just happens to be really good at it.

I agree, which makes them a perfect example for discussion... don't you agree?

[edit on 22-1-2008 by scientist]

Originally posted by spitefulgod
Sorry Scientist

I'm leaving this thread anywho it's peeing me off...

And Dr S.. let's face it you can't change the OSX renderer since Apple don't like you touching their #, it maybe based on freebsd but that's mearly a foundation and no little hacker in his shed will ever influence what goes on in OSX.

Sorry, but you are just wrong on this one. OSX isn't just the GUI that you use when you boot up the machine. You can run x11 on your mac, I do in fact, And x11 is completely open source. I even gave you a link to forums that discuss the very same issues. I don't think you have a clear understanding of how the operating system actually works. The FreeBSD kernel is what controls apples part of the operating system. You are trying to put the cart before the horse.

Originally posted by scientist

Originally posted by Dr_Suess
This is really what sales and advertising is all about. Apple just happens to be really good at it.

I agree, which makes them a perfect example for discussion... don't you agree?

[edit on 22-1-2008 by scientist]

Yes and no.
Isn't that a confusing reply.

I think the industry of advertising is what needs to be examined. Maybe in a larger context capitalism needs a closer look. This is really the head of the serpent so to speak.

reply to post by Dr_Suess


total agreement. unfortunately, I do not have the ability to change the title of this thread to read "Brand Loyalty or Brainwashing?" Even so, I still believe that using Apple as a case study is more than appropriate, hence the current title. It also plays along with the documentary that's apparently coming out.

I admit, this is not mac-only phenomena, but it's also nothing new to Apple. The movie "Pirates of Silicon Valley" emphasized this same exact concept as well.

In fact, here is Steve Wozniak talking about how incredibly accurate the actors portrayed Gates, Jobs and his own personalities:



So let's say we've moved past the Mac vs PC thing, although it took roughly 4 pages to accomplish. What are you're guys' opinions on this mentality? Are there any hardcore macheads that wouldn't mind spilling some beans?

reply to post by Trauma


My Mac has been running steadily since 2001. So I'm not privy to any planned obsolescence claims. I've only needed to change the power supply unit.

Folks can and do customize their Macs. There are websites available that cater to those that do, or wish to.

Motherboards and graphics cards depend on firmware to make them compatible with the OS of choice. This has never been too big of an issue with Mac users since Mac motherboards are generally comparable to top of the line PC motherboards. And since at least the late nineties, Mac users have had the choice between several Mac models featuring unique motherboards. Still, more users use Windows than Mac OS, and that makes it more cost efficient for hardware manufacturers to offer more choice to Windows users. Still, that choice also goes a long way to explaining why Windows users tend to suffer stability problems more than Mac users. With so many parts of varying quality and design, problems can go on for years undiagnosed. Not so for Macs. At least stability problems are ironed out by the next product cycle, and Apple have been known to offer updated motherboard revisions free of charge to users experiencing problems. Maybe that's true of PC motherboard manufacturers as well?

Apple is primarily a hardware company, not a software company. Though, these days it is both. Steve Jobs position on the matter is that integrated systems work better. And they work even better when all systems are designed from the ground up to work together. No one is forced to buy into that philosophy, but, you know, I wouldn't go putting the engine of a Ford Focus into a Porsche 911 Turbo and expect the same performance if it had its own Porsche designed engine. What I'm talking about are standards. Apple sets the standards for its products so that they will all work well together. By and large that's continued to be true. But no man-made system has been perfect.

I've never had a three and a half month wait, and I don't know any Mac users who've had a three and a half month wait for repairs or parts. It's a ludicrous statement to make since hard drives and graphics cards are generally interchangeable from PCs and Macs. Graphics being a slight exception because of the firmware that's required to make the card compatible with the OS of choice. And since motherboards are specific to Apple computers, then a trip to an Apple service center will have that replaced quickly. With the purchase of AppleCare one doesn't even have to pay for the new parts, whatever they might be, regardless of how many times failure occurs.

Originally posted by scientist
Are there any hardcore macheads that wouldn't mind spilling some beans?

I'm an unapologetic Macintosh advocate, and for me, there are a number of reasons...

1) Time - I've extensively used all three major platforms, and in the end, it's the Mac OS X environment that enables me to get stuff done. I use three Macs on a daily basis, and I can't remember the last time I rebooted any of them except for system software upgrades. The working environment promotes a graceful workflow where everything "seems" to be much more efficient than on Windows or Lunix variants. It's the difference between walking through a nice organized and airy office, or a cluttered and cramped cubicle farm.

2) My Eyes - I hate looking at stuff that looks bad... and Windows looks bad while OS X looks good (and Linux never looked anything but terrible). Also, the native display/video-driver environment on the Mac was originally designed with visual artists in mind, so the color balance and quality are just slightly more "right" with a Mac (not many people can actually notice this).

3) Design - I appreciate things that are well designed, and going back to #2, hate looking at poorly designed things (it hurts my eyes). The industrial design in everything that comes out of Apple is among the best consumers can buy. And I don't care that I don't have a broad and varied array of upgrade/modification options... going back to #1, constantly considering how I might tweak the machine is contrary to getting things done.

4) Steve Jobs - He's a legend... the kind of Great CEO that happens rarely. During the past ten years, Microsoft's stock has doubled... while Apple has increased 30-fold. That's a great CEO at work. The Apple brand is Steve and Steve is the Apple brand. I feel that by buying an Apple product, I send him my minor appreciation for setting high standards and minimal compromise... for which I'm willing to pay slightly more.


So it boils down to the simple fact that I need a machine that enables me to get things done, and I can't work on an operating system that looks terrible, a machine that is poorly designed, and am willing to pay a premium for attention to detail.

Originally posted by Dr_Suess
As I type this message on my Imac.. lol. The wife is making me get another Apple this year. She can't live without Itunes... Damn you Steve Jobs.

Huh, you do know iTunes is available for windows right?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


SO, more rational than usual on a topic we are polarized on

I can relate to every reason you listed, in detail, as to why I don't use mac. Notice neither one of us are taking an extremist stance though. We both have a list of legitimate reasons, of why we prefer Product A or B - right? However, if you were to tell me that every time you turned your mac on, you got a burst of euphoria, it would be a different story... or that you use a mac because you are creative (therefore only creative people use macs).

I drive a honda/toyota/acura/etc. because I find them to be reliable, and I HATE working on cars. Someone that prefers working on engines, would probably get a classic muscle car (I've owned a few of those too, which is how I discovered I hate working on cars).

So really, we seem to be of the same mindset, just having different opinions on this subject. I am interested in whether or not you agree that the Apple demographic contains an abnormally large percentage of people that are not so rational about their fervor?

and just to point out...

Also, the native display/video-driver environment on the Mac was originally designed with visual artists in mind, so the color balance and quality are just slightly more "right" with a Mac (not many people can actually notice this).

true, but only comes into effect when you are using a monitor, and color calibration hardware along with that. Clearly, a PC user would be installing the appropriate hardware and drivers to also employ acceptable color balance. I know, because I do

[edit on 22-1-2008 by scientist]

reply to post by scientist



The thing is that, I've never seen anybody on the street recruiting people to attend Mac worship services. No ones has come knocking on my door. I think that the tag of "Cult of Mac" is only used to refer to those Mac users who have not found a comparable experience on other Mac platforms. And since they know what they are dealing with, why should they change? I've heard plenty Windows and Linux users say much more specific things like, "I'll never use a Mac ever!" While the statements are comparable, the types of people who make these statements are in a class by themselves, and they represent the same personality type: Folks who are fanatical about what kind of computer and software they use. Maybe that represents a cult, I don't know for sure that's true. Anyway, go to the "Software and Computers" section of any bookstore and there you will find Mac bibles, Windows bibles, Linux bibles, and Unix bibles. I guess it's largely up to the individual to decide whether they are part of a cult or not. Mainly I think it's marketers who wish to create in users the sense of being in a cult because it sells products. Not that any such cult actually exists.



[edit on 22-1-2008 by Areal51]