Do people who aren’t Christian deserve be tortured in hell?

I believe the Bible.

All Christians do not believe in eternal torment. I have researched the original

scriptures and I do not believe it is true.

see Actual Picture of Hell


I believe non-believers just die - non existence - those who are in Christ inherit eternal life.

That shouldn't offend you that's what you believe in anyway, "nothing".

Originally posted by stikkinikki
Creative writing is not real. There is no heaven and there is no hell. We are conscious of the life with in us that is us and when we pass on we become aware of other consciousness and so on and so on. That's what I believe.

BUT

if we're playing pretend then I don't want to be tortured in hell. That said i gave my life to Christ in 1985 as a born again. So I might get shoehorned in.

Sorry 'bout that, there's no "shoehorn" clause in God's Word. Pretending doesn't cut it.

Originally posted by barmshadow84
In the Garden of Eaden we walked with god. Adam came first. then God Created Eve for a companion for Adam.. Adam & Eve both walked in the Garden toegather. There was Peace of the kind we can't understand. God told them they could do with the Garden what they wanted however The 1hing they couldn't eat from was the tree of knoledge. "The Apple Tree".
When they did SIN entered the world.

15 Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genisis 2:15-17

I do believe this is the passage you are refering to correct?

It's here that the Bible looses my respect and it goes down hill from there. As an intelligent adult with free thought I have to ask myself why? Why would God, a supposed perfect God, a God that has been refered to as "Our Heavenly Father" do that? Why create beings then torture them? As a parent I would never do that. My children's happiness is more important to me then my own, and I would never intentionally give them anything that I thought was dangerous to them.

Why would a God who is supposed to be a loving parent, give some of his children a gift and tell them that they are the chosen one's. They will be with him through eternity and the others will be tortured. As a parent that doesn't even make since. Anyone who's had children knows that even the ones who disobey are loved as well as the one's who do. You may not like what they do, but you love them just the same, and the idea of any of them suffering rips your heart out. To me this is why this theory doesn't hold water.

You can't have it both ways, either God is a loving, honorable, gentle parent who has our best interest at heart, or he's a tiranical dictator who only want's us to validate his exisitance by worshiping at his feet. I don't believe in heaven or hell. I choose to believe that if there is a God then he/she/them is working to support us through our evolution. Children fight as they grow and learn how to interact with each other, and I believe that's where mankind is at. We are like children fighting amongst ourselves as we learn tolerance. I think it's a huge mistake to think that one group of ppl will have an eternity of happiness no matter what they do, and the other group of ppl will be tortured because they are different then the first group.

Originally posted by jdposey
reply to post by theindependentjournal

 

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (revelation 20:1-15)

There is day and night in hell? How could you tell? Where does the light come from to let you know it is daytime in hell?

I get it! At the beginning of this thread I was a bit puzzled as to the point of this whole thing. It seems to me the point is to get some or ANY Christian to agree with the title and say "yes, unbelievers deserve to burn while I deserve heaven". Right? That way Christians are viewed as heartless Son of a Biscuits who don't give a damn about other people...actually technically they would be 'giving a damn' in this case. I'm grateful that no one had taken this bait and hopefully this thread is proof positive that Christians:

1.) Do care about the wellfare of others

and

3.) Do not believe that they personally deserve something that others do not.

To the believers on the thread, you have my thanks. To the original poster, sorry your antagonistic (yet far from original) scheme did not work out as planned.

[edit on 27-2-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
I get it! At the beginning of this thread I was a bit puzzled as to the point of this whole thing. It seems to me the point is to get some or ANY Christian to agree with the title and say "yes, unbelievers deserve to burn while I deserve heaven". Right? That way Christians are viewed as heartless Son of a Biscuits who don't give a damn about other people...actually technically they would be 'giving a damn' in this case. I'm grateful that no one had taken this bait and hopefully this thread is proof positive that Christians:

1.) Do care about the wellfare of others

and

3.) Do not believe that they personally deserve something that others do not.

To the believers on the thread, you have my thanks. To the original poster, sorry your antagonistic (yet far from original) scheme did not work out as planned.

[edit on 27-2-2008 by saint4God]

What the hell are you talking about? The tread was titled "Do ppl who aren't Christian deserve to be tortured?" I didn't see anything in there that said "Hey Christians why do you want to torture us?" I think you misunderstand the intent behind this. I don't know the poster, but it seems pretty clear to me that he/she is trying to understand a concept that is in direct oposition to the idea of a loving, good, just God. We all are trying to understand that one. I don't know for sure, but I don't think it was meant as a personal attack.

Originally posted by enchantress62
I think you misunderstand the intent behind this. I don't know the poster, but it seems pretty clear to me that he/she is trying to understand a concept that is in direct oposition to the idea of a loving, good, just God. We all are trying to understand that one. I don't know for sure, but I don't think it was meant as a personal attack.

After re-reading the initial post a number of times, I wish I could believe in a benign gesture to reach out and understand, but the suggestion is otherwise especially as the thread progresses.

Originally posted by andre18
You see…it’s some dodgy paradox that makes no bloody sense….

Originally posted by andre18
I would simply challenge you to ask Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad, Horus, Hercules, and the tooth fairy

I've done this already.

Originally posted by andre18
AshleyD you make no bloody sense…..lol

Originally posted by andre18
That's so damn hypocritical......lol.....since when do Christians listen to anyone but other Christians...?

...Christians ignore it and use some dumb ass reply like...."faith"

...Christians lack any hard proof or any proof at all.....any logical person can simply laugh at them.....and yet they still don't listen to reason...and simply say it’s a mater of faith…..

Or that the idea of a person going to hell just because of their sexual orientation.....an atheist will just show common sense that any god if it did exist in the fist place.....wouldn't give a (....) about such things.... Christians will completely ignore it and say something like "it says it in the bible so it must be god’s will....."

Christians give me a lot of answers to my questions……sadly….not a single one makes any bloody sense. You try and make some sense out of……”you’re just not spiritual enough to understand god’s will…” lol

Shall I quote more or are you able to see agenda also?

Can the original poster please reach out and tell me that yes, God (and Christians) do indeed care very much about people and want them to have eternal life too?

P.S. Yes, I've seen Faces of Death (can't remember if it was II or III). It's horrible to watch people die. For those who have not seen it, you only need to see the news, work in a hospital, a fire department, or police station to view the same thing.


[edit on 27-2-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by andre18


Mark 9:47
It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where
“‘Their worm does not die,
And the fire is not quenched.'[e] 49Everyone will be salted with fire.

Hell is also described as a place where worms do not die, some theologians believe our flesh will be ate by worms as we burn, the bible also says some will be punished more severe then others.

As for the Christians who act as many of you say, who says they are Christians, them? I know mass murderers who say they are good people; I know abortion clinics that say they are family friendly,

I know Christians get a bad rap, but the funny thing is many who claim to be Christian are not even close to what the bible says a Christian is. They are Religious hypocrites who by their very words will be tortured in hell worse off then the Pagans they condemn.

Anyone who says you deserve hell is probley leading the way for you.

Just my 2 cents

Not very many people deseve to go to hell. However the Holy Bible states that to go to Heaven the only way is to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. PERIOD. THose who don't will go to Hell.
It's our job as Christians to help others to understand the GOOD NEWS about Jesus Christ. However when someone isin't interested & says so we should leave them alone & pray for them.
You can take a horse to water but can't make it drink.

reply to post by saint4God

Yes, I've seen Faces of Death -It's horrible to watch people die

So, you understand that sort of pain and hopefully wish for no one to go through that sort of thing, yet you accept the Christian doctrine of hell…..You wish for people to not endure hell…..but you still accept it anyway…..

Why would you accept Christianity’s view of life and death when it involves one of the many things you obviously dislike?

reply to post by andre18


While I'm not a Christian I can understand why they "accept" hell as a part of their religion. Just like with EVERYTHING else in this world you need to accept the good with the bad. You can't just not accept something just because you don't like it.

Like many years back when the family dog died, I hated it! It upset me very much, but I accepted it. Death is a part of life. Just like hell is a part of Christianity.

It's like the laws that govern society. If you don't follow these laws, or rules, you will be punished. You may think that your punishment is not befitting to whatever crime you committed but you have to accept it, because it is the law.

Originally posted by barmshadow84
Not very many people deseve to go to hell. However the Holy Bible states that to go to Heaven the only way is to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. PERIOD. THose who don't will go to Hell.
It's our job as Christians to help others to understand the GOOD NEWS about Jesus Christ. However when someone isin't interested & says so we should leave them alone & pray for them.
You can take a horse to water but can't make it drink.

Yes, but what you need to understand is that when Christians "do their job" and tell people about their personal savior, it's just yet ANOTHER religion coming up and saying, "This is the only way to heaven".

Imagine that you had no religion and 5 different people from 5 different religions came up to you in the street and started telling you to accept their faith or burn in hell. What would you do? What makes any one of the five religions there anymore plausible than the others?

It's like there's 5 people trying to lead that poor horse to 5 different bodies of water and telling it "If you don't drink from my water you will suffer an eternity of pain and torment."

The horse will most likely flip them all the bird and go find its own damn water.

My understang is that 'Hell' was originally an ancient garbage dump site in Israel. In fact someone recently posted an actual picture of the real and original 'Hell' right here on ATS. Do a search, I'm sure you'll find it.

Quite a nice little spot too. Rather picturesque really. A little treed river valley.

So by 'torture' I'm assuming you mean 'sort the recycling out without gloves' or such huh?

I'm all for that personally - but I think it would be farier if we all took turns: y'know - atheists have to collect the aluminum cans one week, christians the plastics the following week. Muslims can pick up the all the clean cardboard up a week later etc. Sure, I'm ok with that as long as no-one tries to wriggle out of their chores...

J.

My understang is that 'Hell' was originally an ancient garbage dump site in Israel.

did you just think that up or did you read it from somewhere?

I've had my share of internal struggles over this concept, hell that is. Having been born and raised Catholic, and a Christian most of my life, then making the informed decision to choose a different path, I've had to come to peace with the idea that if the Bible is true then I'll most likely burn in eternal hell. That's been a hard one for me, but what's finally brought me a margin of peace is the never ending question that most three year olds have mastered. WHY? Why would God do that to us? Mankind was practicing Pagan religions for thousands of years before Christianity was even thought of, so if what the bible says is true then what about those ppl? Where was God and his eternal hell during that time? Why weren't those ppl informed of this belief system? And, are those ppl going to burn along side me? Why would he do that to them, when they were only practicing what made since for the time and the circumstances of the world around them? What kind of God creates a being as beautiful and complex as a human and then continually changes the rules on them, and tells them if they don't figure it out they'll not only be distroyed but they'll suffer the most horrific death we can imagine?

Originally posted by andre18
So, you understand that sort of pain and hopefully wish for no one to go through that sort of thing,

I've witnessed it, but I'm not sure any of us can fully understand unless they experience it for themselves. It is true I hopefully wish for no one to go through that sort of thing, not even that few seconds of pain between life and death.

Originally posted by andre18
yet you accept the Christian doctrine of hell…..You wish for people to not endure hell…..but you still accept it anyway…..

I don't get to make the rules for the universe, sorry. As much as there's that temptation, more than likely I'd manage to botch it up if I did have the authority to do so.

Originally posted by andre18
Why would you accept Christianity’s view of life and death when it involves one of the many things you obviously dislike?

There are many things I don't like that I have to accept every day. Work, failure, death of a loved one, people getting sick, disasters, relationship pain, etc. As much as I'd like to close my eyes and shout "these things don't exist!", as soon as I open my eyes again I can see that they do. Wishing away reality isn't the best way to be progressive. Rather, the progressive person is willing to accept the facts and do the best they can to create positive outcomes wherever possible. It demands personal responsibility, forgiveness, hope, respect, understanding, patience, faith, ambition, selflessness, and self-discipline. That requires a lot of energy every day, but is far from impossible.

Originally posted by Dark_Ace

My understang is that 'Hell' was originally an ancient garbage dump site in Israel.

did you just think that up or did you read it from somewhere?

Nope, it's absolutely true! Like I said - do a search here for 'picture of hell' and all will be revealed

.

reply to post by jimbo999


Here you go www.abovetopsecret.com...


Note there is a second death.... I just don't believe in eternal torture

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Bravo! thanks for finding that for us. It's always nice when someone posts something that shows us the difference between what's real and what's myth.

One should ask themselves, "why are greek myths considered myths, but Biblical accounts around the same time considered valid by so many of the world's population". The truth is not up to vote, certainly, however to dismiss the beliefs of so many as mere myth without invalidating the possibility is a bit presumptuous, no?