How "the law of attraction" works

Originally posted by Illahee
Well folks, I'm taking a little breather from here for a while. More and more I had found I was drifting to and following along with a lot of the negative topics, here and that is just not me at all.

I will check in from time to time and moderate the value of each thing I view. Keeping the good thoughts alive is my true deep down focus, so until we meet again, do what is right and have no regrets in this life or the next.

Best to you all and keep working towards that better life for you and yours.

ATS is great but I totally understand why you would feel the need to get away. .There is so much negativity on here...so many people who are convinced the man is trying to bring them down...so few who think they can just be happy. I'm sorry to see you go, but hope to see you again soon. Best of luck!

That's odd....my post landed somewhere in the abyss.

::bump::

Originally posted by Illahee
Well folks, I'm taking a little breather from here for a while. More and more I had found I was drifting to and following along with a lot of the negative topics, here and that is just not me at all.

"That is just not me at all". Wise words spoken.

reply to post by j_kalin


I'm actually reading a book on this subject and the author says that when you ask for these things, you are ALWAYS supposed to ask that they come to you in a safe and loving way....and for the greater good. Your situations are exactly what I'm afraid of when trying to materialize things. I;m actually trying to move out on my own, and hoping you can give me pointers (return favor ) of getting enough money to live comfortably on my own (with nobody's help).

After I have read five or six pages wanted to participate (for all those skeptics out there)
I already start noticing reality shifts in my reality.
Example 1:
Water boiling while another heating pan was really switched on. One thing I was sure I switched the right on, and expected to hear the sound of water boiling and it came true. Stove is perfectly working OK now and all days before
Example 2:
Not being able to to type dot on my phone no matter how step by step and how many times I tried. It was in one message I was typing. Tomorrow and till now phone is doing OK.

So from my personal experience dent on the car is just like those things.
Reality shifts do exist.
Now back to reading rest of topic...

Originally posted by Faerygirl1984
and hoping you can give me pointers of getting enough money to live comfortably on my own (with nobody's help).

If you ever want to get this "law of attraction" stuff down like a pro...

...completely bypass the subject of money and all the slave-mentality involved.

Instead blend your souls/hearts desire...and money comes automatically.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Skyfloating, I know that what you said is "right" or correct, but I think that some things may be so obvious to you that you overlook the difficulty that might pose for others.

I think many people do not KNOW, (consciously in any event,) what their hearts/souls desire is. And what they think it is, is often pretty far from the mark, and so they pursue the means to pursue their hearts/souls desire, hoping that once they have that, what they truly desire will become apparent. (Ie: The freedom from "necessity" to do that which we do NOT want that we associate rightly or wrongly with having financial freedom, or lots of money.)

We are conditioned, many of us from birth, to do what "we have to do to pay the bills." This often becomes such an unconscious imperative, such an underlying truth or belief, that what we "truly desire to do" is pushed into the furthest reaches of our subconscious. Some people truly do not know. I ran up against this issue myself when, after a life lived highly "responsibly" I was given a "fun" exercise in a college class where I was asked to envision winning the lottery, and what I would do if I had the financial means to do anything I wanted. All the wheels and cogs in my mind locked up. I was stymied. I finished the exercise by writing down some things that sounded good, but then spent a couple years considering the true answer to that question.

I know you have said before that you can often discern someone's beliefs without them saying a word, simply by what is manifest in their lives. Can you share any pointers on how to discern one's "hearts/souls desire" for those who may be way off the mark? (seeking what they perceive to be the means, money, instead of the end itself?)

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
I think many people do not KNOW, (consciously in any event,) what their hearts/souls desire is. And what they think it is, is often pretty far from the mark, and so they pursue the means to pursue their hearts/souls desire, hoping that once they have that, what they truly desire will become apparent. (Ie: The freedom from "necessity" to do that which we do NOT want that we associate rightly or wrongly with having financial freedom, or lots of money.)

Well yeah. The whole slave-system we live in is designed to invest energy into goals that are not ours but benefit someone else. Personally I believe that most of the goals someone has on their list are not really their own goals, their souls goals. Money is one of these artificial goals offered by the world.

Those people that shine and have achieved success, prosperity or fame in some area, have however, not achieved that by following someone elses goals, by following the dictates of the world, but by emphasizing their own individuality, finding their own real true goals which are unique. Thats why they shine.

So most are followers/consumers and not creators. A good example of this are cults: Most often the cult-leader is an interesting and radiating person...and the followers are not. Because they are not following their path but someone elses. Or superstars: They often have this "magic aura" around them because they are being themselves...but their frenzied fans do not have that aura.

The mass-media teaches us to "be like these people" and that "these people are unique"...without telling us that each and every person has a uniqueness about him...a special talent...a special lifes purpose.

So by "following your hearts desire" LOA-practitioners and shamans actually mean "being yourself" and finding/creating ones own path rather than following artificial goals.

In the context of the money thing, Ive found that much, much, much, much more money flows when I am not looking to get money but instead looking to do things that match who I really am (as opposed to what the world and others expect of me).

We are conditioned, many of us from birth, to do what "we have to do to pay the bills." This often becomes such an unconscious imperative, such an underlying truth or belief, that what we "truly desire to do" is pushed into the furthest reaches of our subconscious. Some people truly do not know.

Well yes. Hence all the books on the subject.

I ran up against this issue myself when, after a life lived highly "responsibly" I was given a "fun" exercise in a college class where I was asked to envision winning the lottery, and what I would do if I had the financial means to do anything I wanted. All the wheels and cogs in my mind locked up. I was stymied. I finished the exercise by writing down some things that sounded good, but then spent a couple years considering the true answer to that question.

Good exercise. Very good exercise. Ive posed the same questions to some people and Im often quite shocked at the artificiality of their goals and also the stiff-mannered way in which they express them. And I go "Cmon...thats not YOU"...but some dont "get it" their entire life. Being a millionaire is pretty boring and disillusioning if you havent found the YOU. I am sure you realize all that.

I know you have said before that you can often discern someone's beliefs without them saying a word, simply by what is manifest in their lives. Can you share any pointers on how to discern one's "hearts/souls desire" for those who may be way off the mark? (seeking what they perceive to be the means, money, instead of the end itself?)

Well yeah. When you are "in it" things are mostly effortless and good stuff comes up by itself. But wanting to be "in it" all the time is an inappropriate intention again brought up by the restless and fearful mind...if you get what I mean. So when a bunch of blocks, hurdles and problems stack up on each other...thats your sign, your signal that you are "out of it", out of the stream and flow of your soul. When on the other hand, there is some task or job or profession that you just love doing, that you dont keep having to overcome and convincing yourself to do, you are "in it".

Someone who is "him/herself" does not overblow the IMPORTANCE of anything outside of him/herself. Even if, say, something really, really good happens...the importance is not overblown. Making "things" too important will backfire. But I wont explain why here, I´ll leave it to you to think about that.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


If there are any thoughts or objections you have about this...go ahead. I love debating this stuff and my word on it is not the last word.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Well yeah. When you are "in it" things are mostly effortless and good stuff comes up by itself. But wanting to be "in it" all the time is an inappropriate intention again brought up by the restless and fearful mind...if you get what I mean. So when a bunch of blocks, hurdles and problems stack up on each other...thats your sign, your signal that you are "out of it", out of the stream and flow of your soul. When on the other hand, there is some task or job or profession that you just love doing, that you dont keep having to overcome and convincing yourself to do, you are "in it".

No objections. It wasnt an objection sort of post on my part, more a "yes, that all sounds good and true, but the problem is people just dont KNOW what is truly theirs to pursue."

I have heard the "going with the flow" sort of answers before, but you can find the "flow" in a lot of things that clearly arent career related. I find it in reading sometimes, others not, mowing the grass sometimes, other times not, playing a video game seems to put a LOT of people in the flow, lol, and they can effortlessly play for hours, but none of that following of the "flow" as a feeling of ease, and pleasure, and talent, seems to bring a cohesive "this is your gift, your vocation" realization to many. Myself included.

I think I have significantly narrowed it down for myself, via that exercise in that class, but I was hoping you had similar exercises or ideas about how one could sort through the pleasurable activities they perform. Not just for me, but for all the readers and lurkers to this very informative thread.

After all, many people do drink and drugs to "mimic" that good feeling of being "in the flow" with everything sailing along effortlessly. It just isnt as simple as "follow the feeling," humans are very clever at perpetuating our ignorance, and we have come up with many, many ways of creating "simulated flow" to allow our selves to endure what you indicate (correctly imho) is actually a rather slavish existence.

All I was hoping for was perhaps a sorting mechanism that could bypass some of our self deceptions.

Most of the problems of humanity could easily be solved if we would just head the suggestion the ancients posted at the Temple at Delphi in Greece. "Know thyself." Clearly it is, and is not, that simple. It is rather that way with the "flow" issue. Of course you are right, and it IS that simple, but sorting out exactly how to tell what that is or is not, is not so simple at all.

Socrates said in Plato's "Gorgias" what is most commonly translated as "no man does evil willingly." Alternate translations are, "no one does what is harmful to themselves knowingly," and "no one errs knowingly." The point, regardless of the translation is, we err, harm ourselves or do evil because we are genuinely mistaken about what is in our best interests.

Saying that to "know thyself" and "be thyself" is obviously a profound spiritual truth. But it is also as old as writing itself. There is nothing new about that statement, and it helps the layperson little. Providing real insight into how to tell the false "knowing" from the true "knowing" in a manner that could be applied by someone altogether clueless, would be a new and great thing.

Many people who, say, are construction workers can do what they do with out knowing all the "hows" they just build. Or, they operate a backhoe for instance, almost instinctively. If someone asked me, "what is the movement to make the bucket go down and bite the ground?" right at this moment, I could not tell you, though I am an excellent operator. I have internalized the action to such a high degree, I am unconscious of the details of it. I would have to sit in the seat, and while performing the action, I would have to apply my awareness and dissect the "movement" my hands make and break it down so that I could convey it to someone who did not know it.

I think I was hoping for that. You clearly seem to "do it" and "do it well" but as I pointed out in the last post, it occurs to me that you have done it so long and so often that you have forgotten, (or perhaps never knew if you are a true natural) how complex what you are doing truly is.

When I dig, it feels to me like a single flowing movement of my hand, but in truth, it is a complex movement, and very precise, made up of many small individual movements coordinated exactingly. I am certain that the act of discerning the flow is the same, or everyone would be doing it, all the time. With a backhoe, you dont have "false positives" to mislead you. When you err, the consequences are immediate and apparent. In this, the law of attraction, there is time lag, (often) and it is not so easy to discern cause and effect immediately, and, as I stated earlier, we are so hungry to feel the "flow" and experience "positive feelings"that we have created lots of illusions that mimic it.

So, while I dont know that you, or I, or anyone here could actually do such an analysis of what is (positively) the "flow," I thought I would throw the issue out onto the table and see if we could at least try and remove some of the things it is NOT. Or at the least develop some methodology that might provide a beginning place to sort. I think many of the greatest masters have tried to make positive statements about what "it" is, (and not succeeded) and some like Plato have refused to try to make positive statements, out of a conviction it cannot be done in writing. But defining what it is NOT should be doable.

Asking a "doer" what they do is, to me, a logical step in devising a methodology. Even if we cannot pin that down, we can then sort out what it isnt, and, in doing, narrow the field.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
I have heard the "going with the flow" sort of answers before, but you can find the "flow" in a lot of things that clearly arent career related. I find it in reading sometimes, others not, mowing the grass sometimes, other times not, playing a video game seems to put a LOT of people in the flow, lol, and they can effortlessly play for hours, but none of that following of the "flow" as a feeling of ease, and pleasure, and talent, seems to bring a cohesive "this is your gift, your vocation" realization to many. Myself included.

I get this type of reasoning a lot and it leads us straight to some core-society beliefs/illusions:

1. I cant make money with what I enjoy
2. Having fun all the time will not lead to a job or money
3. I can only receive money if I work

These have been pounded into our psyche over and over and us buying into them will block us from making a living or find our vocation without a bunch of effort.

Do you know why I am on ATS so often though? I hardly work. Most of my money comes from so-called "passive income" (and I dont mean real estate or shares). But before I reached that stage I had to genuinely examine and release the abovementioned beliefs (which I think almost everyone carries).


I replaced those beliefs with the belief that everyone has their own unique vocation that they are perfect at. This vocation is either found, and if you dont find it, that means you have to invent it out of the things you are good at. It is found gradually. Often it doesnt reveal itself for a long time but ends up to be an accumulative mixture of jobs you had before. By the time you find "it" you will understand your previous jobs to have been a kind of preperation for that. If something comes easy and naturally to you and is of service to some target group, then its your vocation or a stepping stone to that prime-purpose vocation. Its either the thing itself or a door leading towards it.

I think I have significantly narrowed it down for myself, via that exercise in that class, but I was hoping you had similar exercises or ideas about how one could sort through the pleasurable activities they perform. Not just for me, but for all the readers and lurkers to this very informative thread.

As far as career goes, ask yourself: What would I be doing if I already had everything I wanted? The answer to that places you squarely into the center of your souls preferred vocation (and the one you´d ultimately have the most success with)

(Ín keeping it simple here)

After all, many people do drink and drugs to "mimic" that good feeling of being "in the flow" with everything sailing along effortlessly. It just isnt as simple as "follow the feeling," humans are very clever at perpetuating our ignorance, and we have come up with many, many ways of creating "simulated flow" to allow our selves to endure what you indicate (correctly imho) is actually a rather slavish existence.

All I was hoping for was perhaps a sorting mechanism that could bypass some of our self deceptions.

Well...I am familiar with hundreds of "techniques", if thats what you mean. What exactly were you thinking of?

Most of the problems of humanity could easily be solved if we would just head the suggestion the ancients posted at the Temple at Delphi in Greece. "Know thyself." Clearly it is, and is not, that simple. It is rather that way with the "flow" issue. Of course you are right, and it IS that simple, but sorting out exactly how to tell what that is or is not, is not so simple at all.

Metaphysical study question: I often downplay the positive results I have. Do you know why?

Socrates said in Plato's "Gorgias" what is most commonly translated as "no man does evil willingly." Alternate translations are, "no one does what is harmful to themselves knowingly," and "no one errs knowingly." The point, regardless of the translation is, we err, harm ourselves or do evil because we are genuinely mistaken about what is in our best interests. Saying that to "know thyself" and "be thyself" is obviously a profound spiritual truth. But it is also as old as writing itself. There is nothing new about that statement, and it helps the layperson little. Providing real insight into how to tell the false "knowing" from the true "knowing" in a manner that could be applied by someone altogether clueless, would be a new and great thing.

Very true. But Ive deliberately not only voiced slogans such as "go with the flow", "follow your bliss" and "know thyself" but tried to provide some specific examples and applications of it.

Many people who, say, are construction workers can do what they do with out knowing all the "hows" they just build. Or, they operate a backhoe for instance, almost instinctively. If someone asked me, "what is the movement to make the bucket go down and bite the ground?" right at this moment, I could not tell you, though I am an excellent operator. I have internalized the action to such a high degree, I am unconscious of the details of it. I would have to sit in the seat, and while performing the action, I would have to apply my awareness and dissect the "movement" my hands make and break it down so that I could convey it to someone who did not know it.

Opinion: That "special vocation / lifes purpose" I keep referring to is often a mix of what feels right and good and interesting to us AND what we have automated / become an expert at. Thanks for adding the habit-aspect.

I think I was hoping for that. You clearly seem to "do it" and "do it well" but as I pointed out in the last post, it occurs to me that you have done it so long and so often that you have forgotten, (or perhaps never knew if you are a true natural) how complex what you are doing truly is. When I dig, it feels to me like a single flowing movement of my hand, but in truth, it is a complex movement, and very precise, made up of many small individual movements coordinated exactingly. I am certain that the act of discerning the flow is the same, or everyone would be doing it, all the time. With a backhoe, you dont have "false positives" to mislead you. When you err, the consequences are immediate and apparent. In this, the law of attraction, there is time lag, (often) and it is not so easy to discern cause and effect immediately, and, as I stated earlier, we are so hungry to feel the "flow" and experience "positive feelings"that we have created lots of illusions that mimic it.

So, while I dont know that you, or I, or anyone here could actually do such an analysis of what is (positively) the "flow," I thought I would throw the issue out onto the table and see if we could at least try and remove some of the things it is NOT. Or at the least develop some methodology that might provide a beginning place to sort. I think many of the greatest masters have tried to make positive statements about what "it" is, (and not succeeded) and some like Plato have refused to try to make positive statements, out of a conviction it cannot be done in writing. But defining what it is NOT should be doable.

Asking a "doer" what they do is, to me, a logical step in devising a methodology. Even if we cannot pin that down, we can then sort out what it isnt, and, in doing, narrow the field.

OK. Interestingly you´ve answered many of the questions you pose yourself in that last part. Unwittingly? Maybe.

One thing though, people always look for a fixed datum from which they can operate. I dont know if this is possible with "flow" though, because what is and is-not flow changes every day.

But it can easily be spotted when you are in or out, wouldnt you think so? I can tell within 5 minutes if Im "out the flow". I get exhausted or start succumbing to external expectations and pressures or get irratated or stressed out or angry or fearful...and right there is the moment I realize Im "out of the flow". And thats an invitation to stop what Im doing and take stock of my here-and-now, asking myself what Id prefer doing. And if thats "just go to sleep", then so be it.

A few days ago my credit-card wouldnt work anymore...and this worry crept up that something bad had happened...credit-card abuse, all my money stolen and whatnot. That awful feeling I had, crept up by chest, throat, forhead...so rather than going on with the day, trying to suppress it, I sit down with it and determine which thought-form of mine is producing that feeling. I detect it. Breathe with it. Acknowledge it. Ask myself what I want to be thinking instead. Write alternative thoughts down that feel better, until I feel better. A very simple technique. Im back in the flow. (Later turned out nothing bad happened, I had only forgotten to register a new home adress when ordering an item in the internet. Hadnt I handled it IN THOUGHT beforehand though...something bad might have happened). (I just described a foolproof technique btw)

I solve puzzles, or problems. Thats what I do, its what I love to do. I analyze everything, and anything. Hence philosophy. Philosophy isnt just a bunch of dreamers sitting around contemplating the meaning of life, as many think, it is also the birthplace of most of science. (Although many branches of science try to forget that) I dont "know it all," but then I dont feel you need to if you know what you know and what you dont, and you are willing to research what you dont.

My current "pet" problem involves the Law of Attraction. (Which is why I brought the question here) And it is, basically, why is something that so many believe in NOT working for so many? Even those that seem to be really applying many of the concepts.

A clear example.

I have a friend. And he is an amazingly talented musician. He can play a large assortment of wind instruments very well, and also is so gifted that he can pick up a new one and play it within hours competently. He absolutely understands music history, music theory, he writes music, etc. You get the point. It is his gift, his vocation. He loves it, and you can hear it when he speaks of it. He isnt mistaken in what he loves, or what his talent is.

And he does it. He practices hours a day, and he also plays for a small symphony during the season. Not to mention events, and the like. However, even though he is doing what he loves, he is bound to a job he "has to work" to pay the bills. And I have carefully analyzed his situation, he genuinely could not quit at this point. He would be homeless in a matter of weeks. He doesnt waste money, he just isnt bringing in enough money from his music to leave the horrible job he loathes. And part of it, I see, is that he doesnt know how to apply what he loves in a way that will free him. He tries this angle and that, but he just cant get out of the "slavery." He doesnt want or need to be rich. He wants to be able to live off his music and not have to work the horrible job. Thats all. It seems a modest and very doable goal considering his talent, but he just hasnt been able to make it work.

Why?

Now I know that he has fears. And I know that fears manifest. That part is a known and a given. But mechanically, what is the solution when someone is already doing what they love and pursuing it, and stuck?

And he is a "best case" scenario in that he knows what he wants. I have another friend, so talented at so many things she cannot put her finger on what it is. (Sort of like you mention, it takes a while to coalesce or integrate into one something) She has tried this venture, and that, and she loves them all, they are all things chosen because she has gifts and talents that lead her that way, but none of them go anywhere, clearly she is missing something. Again, she is tied to a job she loathes and genuinely could not just leave it suddenly. Even if one of her ideas "took off" the minute she walked out the door, it just doesnt look doable to just "walk off" the job as a demonstration of her faith in herself. Again, yes the feeling of "cant leave" has to have some impact on the situation, but what is the solution? Mechanically, practically, how does one get past that block?


And she is a "middle case" scenario. I know someone else, who hasnt a clue at all what they are good at, and what they do best, (and quite frankly I cant see it either, even from the outside) because the despair and feeling of being trapped is so great they have become paralyzed completely. Essentially, they sit around and "distract" themself with television and beer. He is my "worst case" scenario. Here, there are tons of "reasons" for his situation. (manifesting a feeling of hopelessness) But he is so blocked not even I as an outsider can see a way out, or a talent.

So, I am trying to figure out what YOU are doing, that they are not. I cannot use myself as an example. You are almost always too biased about what you are doing to make a clear analysis of yourself. It just isnt good methodology. And I am not so consistent in what I manifest that I would consider myself an ideal subject in any case. So, I asked you. I have confidence in you as a "doer" and if you are self-biased (as we all are to some degree) it wont matter, because I am looking in more dispassionately.

I am looking for that missing piece, that stumbling block, and a practical step to move past it. All of them believe they are responsible for what they manifest, there are no "victims" here. But to varying degrees they all are having trouble "nailing it." My musician friend drives me the craziest, because his love is so focused (and so genuine) and he also directs his physical energy that way. He doesnt have to force himself to spend hours a day honing his talent, he just does. He loves it. And yet he cant break out of bondage.

The service issue, which you brought up, is one of the things I have been considering. It seems quite important. And you also bring up great points about not focusing on the money. But your passive income had to be set up somehow, even if the whole focus wasnt on money, it had to be considered to some degree.

I dont want to go too far into what I am thinking at this point, because I want to hear the opinions of others uncolored by my input, at least initially. Even my questions are leading to some degree and thats why I started out a little vague. I feel like I am overlooking something important, that needs to drop into place before I can put together a "summary" and toss it out for refinement and critique. You have already provided some excellent leads, but if you see anything else, please do point it out.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander



This may sound rather pedestrian, but still: could it be that this musician and - most especially - your multi-talented friend NEED constraints to propel their creativity and bring out the best quality of work in them (even though "reactively", i.e. in opposition)?

I know I do.
I was very disappointed in myself when I realised that. And as much as I am aware of it, and would like to transcend it, I haven't succeeded in doing so.
Not yet, anyway.





[edit on 29-4-2008 by Vanitas]

Hello, Fine Folks!
I'm still here, still very much alive, and still very involved in this concept. I cannot help but be facscinated with the discourse here, and as I have said before, I learn from all that I see here. I am grateful for all that you all say...

Update: unlike our dear sweet Skyfloating, I still DO feel the urge to work for a living, but I will readily admit, not too hard, nor too strenuously, in order to feel that I am living the way I need to be. It just seems to be right for me to do what I am doing.

Oh, I'll never be famous, fantabulously wealthy, or even very special...but I AM important, meaningful, and integral to the people I love. That, in and of itself, makes me more complete than I can describe. Not conceited, please don't misconstrue; but knowingly LOVED, and that really does make all the difference, to me at any rate...

Could I achieve all that I have in my pedestrian, yet comfortable life without Love? Sure, no doubt about it.
Would I be the soul I am today without Love? Absolutely NO freaking way...

I cannot move on to the next level if I cannot complete this level, without learning that ,although I have some control in my own destiny, I cannot negate the influence other's emotions have on my Life Plan...(sorry for the run-on...lol)

Just my two cents, offered for Your review and the Threads' Learned Opinion...
Plus, I've missed you guys, and it's wonderful to see that this topic continues... thanks so very much... I live this, I breathe it, I sleep it, I AM. Thanks for the validation, and the sage advice, All...

I'll check in soon...if I am not out of country AGAIN...lol sometimes I have no idea where they want me to go...kids, I mean...lol...one in Canada, one in CA, four in NH, and Grandbaby makes seven...I am tapped out at present...I love it tho!


Be Well...

reply to post by Vanitas


I relate to what you said very well. I also seem to require a bit more structure to be my very best. I like a bit of pressure, and I like deadlines. I seem to do my best work when I have some sort of time constraint. And I am not the best at imposing them on myself, my train of thought goes off the rails if I am not sort of prodded now and again.

I dont know that that is the case with my musician friend however. He has very good self discipline, and the "constraint" of working that job to pay the bills actually hurts him. It keeps a roof over his head, and food on the table, but it limits his ability to take certain music jobs, some that he would really love to do, and it totally crushes his spirit. He might need some structure, he really enjoys the structure of the symphony job he also does. It just doesnt pay enough. It is a small symphony in a smaller town.

In my opinion, except for the fear itself of having his life come crashing down if he left the job, he is doing everything right. Also in my opinion, from a practical point of view, it looks to me like he is right. It isnt an unfounded fear. He really is so close to the edge financially that it would take a miracle (literally) for him to walk off the job and NOT end up ruined.

Granted, I know miracles can happen. And maybe "jumping off a cliff" financially is what needs to happen in his case. I just really dont know. Thats why I threw it out to the community.

Although thinking what you said through, something just occurred to me. Maybe he should apply for bigger symphony jobs. Maybe he is selling himself short on that end. He is a bit of a perfectionist, maybe he doesnt realize how good he really is, and he isnt reaching high enough with the symphony aspect. That would be a reason he might need to be kept in the position he is in. So that the general misery he is in ensures he doesnt "settle" for a second class symphony when he could be playing in a better one. Good point, Vanitas. I am glad you brought the "maybe he needs that job" aspect up. It could very well be.





[edit on 30-4-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by althea041724


Don't apologize for run on sentences, lol, just become a philosopher. I have seen sentences that were a large paragraph long, with commas galore. I think you get bonus points in philosophy for it. If nothing else it allows the possibility that your reader will become so confused that they assume what you have said must be profound.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

My current "pet" problem involves the Law of Attraction. (Which is why I brought the question here) And it is, basically, why is something that so many believe in NOT working for so many? Even those that seem to be really applying many of the concepts.

A clear example.

I have a friend. And he is an amazingly talented musician. He can play a large assortment of wind instruments very well, and also is so gifted that he can pick up a new one and play it within hours competently. He absolutely understands music history, music theory, he writes music, etc. You get the point. It is his gift, his vocation. He loves it, and you can hear it when he speaks of it. He isnt mistaken in what he loves, or what his talent is.

And he does it. He practices hours a day, and he also plays for a small symphony during the season. Not to mention events, and the like. However, even though he is doing what he loves, he is bound to a job he "has to work" to pay the bills. And I have carefully analyzed his situation, he genuinely could not quit at this point. He would be homeless in a matter of weeks. He doesnt waste money, he just isnt bringing in enough money from his music to leave the horrible job he loathes. And part of it, I see, is that he doesnt know how to apply what he loves in a way that will free him. He tries this angle and that, but he just cant get out of the "slavery." He doesnt want or need to be rich. He wants to be able to live off his music and not have to work the horrible job. Thats all. It seems a modest and very doable goal considering his talent, but he just hasnt been able to make it work.

Why?

If you were sitting in my home as an official-coaching-client of mine, we wouldnt be making assertions about what others (who are not present and not asking for something) want or dont want, believe or dont believe, but only how the-law-of-attraction works or does not work for you. So, in that setting I wouldnt even answer these questions.

But we´re not in that setting so I´ll say: This guy certainly carries one of the belief-programs mentioned in my last post...whether he or you are aware of it or not. He´d need to consider that, recognize it and then shift his being-ness to "I gradually make more money with what I like". (LOA doesnt imply that he needs to quit his job immediatly, which would only cause on overwhelm in his belief-system. But maybe get a steady job a little more related...even if remotely...to music).

He seems to be in the habitual mode millions of other artists are in too, and he would need to dissociate from "what almost all other artists also experience too" and re-define who he is based upon his souls vision, not based upon whats happened up to now.

You say "he really is doing what he likes but he is not making money of it". Well, if he likes to make money of his hobby, then he is NOT really doing what he likes. Get it?

Now I know that he has fears. And I know that fears manifest. That part is a known and a given. But mechanically, what is the solution when someone is already doing what they love and pursuing it, and stuck?

If he is "stuck", he is not doing what he really wants...namely a job he really dislikes. See near the end of this post for more.

And he is a "best case" scenario in that he knows what he wants. I have another friend, so talented at so many things she cannot put her finger on what it is. (Sort of like you mention, it takes a while to coalesce or integrate into one something) She has tried this venture, and that, and she loves them all, they are all things chosen because she has gifts and talents that lead her that way, but none of them go anywhere, clearly she is missing something. Again, she is tied to a job she loathes and genuinely could not just leave it suddenly. Even if one of her ideas "took off" the minute she walked out the door, it just doesnt look doable to just "walk off" the job as a demonstration of her faith in herself. Again, yes the feeling of "cant leave" has to have some impact on the situation, but what is the solution? Mechanically, practically, how does one get past that block?

In both examples you provide the loathing of the old job is actually an obstruction to a new reality because "what you resist will persist"....resistance is a form of intense-attention on something.

So, technically, practically these people would need to sit down and session themselves out of their vibe by examining hundreds of pre-suppositions they hold about their situation and finding more appropriate and light-hearted lines of thought.

You say that these people are "applying" the loa-tools, but I bet they are not doing it deeply, cleanly and thoroughly. The book-list earlier contains many hundreds of specific processes and tools with which to explore consciousness, recognize ones pre-suppositions and shift the energy. So, in a way this is not "much work", but in another way, it does require some practice in being willing to not only confront ones true beliefs (if someone even gets that far) but also shift them. Yes its work, but much, much less work compared to living another year doing something you dont like.

And she is a "middle case" scenario. I know someone else, who hasnt a clue at all what they are good at, and what they do best, (and quite frankly I cant see it either, even from the outside) because the despair and feeling of being trapped is so great they have become paralyzed completely. Essentially, they sit around and "distract" themself with television and beer. He is my "worst case" scenario. Here, there are tons of "reasons" for his situation. (manifesting a feeling of hopelessness) But he is so blocked not even I as an outsider can see a way out, or a talent.

Yes...but again, in LOA you dont really try to figure out other peoples consciousness, life or results, but your own...which is how you can be a light to the world. If we´re gonna start with other peoples consciousness...thats a neverending story which will distract us from our own issues.

In keeping with "all is one" someday people will realize that they can actually heal someone else by healing themselves. But thats for another, more advanced chapter.

By examining opp (other peoples problems) you can observe the law-of-attraction in action and learn a lot (philosophically), but ultimately thats not how to solve issues. Reason: The very act of observing and with which label you observe someone shapes reality.

So, I am trying to figure out what YOU are doing, that they are not. I cannot use myself as an example. You are almost always too biased about what you are doing to make a clear analysis of yourself. It just isnt good methodology. And I am not so consistent in what I manifest that I would consider myself an ideal subject in any case. So, I asked you. I have confidence in you as a "doer" and if you are self-biased (as we all are to some degree) it wont matter, because I am looking in more dispassionately.

Well, what I am doing will not necessarily be appropriate or work for others. What works and does not work differs depending on ones level of energy/consciousness.

In other words, one will need therapy, another will just need to get laid, another will need meditation, another something different entirely.

This is why its somewhat tricky to be talking about what others, who are not present, supposedly need.

People are looking for that one, fixed works-for-all method...but its not the fluid, ever-changing, playful soul looking for it...its the fearful, survival-driven mind looking for that "final solution that works for everyone and anytime".

The general "law-of-attraction" concept is one stable piece of data to derive various approaches from at least.

So we can say what everyone needs generally (which is to chill out), but not specifically.

"My life is crap. The law of attraction is not working". This is something I hear some say. However, the law-of-attraction is working perfectly...for the negative. So if the person making that statement could at least see the effects of LOA for the negative...that would be a giant step in a good direction.

I am looking for that missing piece, that stumbling block, and a practical step to move past it. All of them believe they are responsible for what they manifest, there are no "victims" here. But to varying degrees they all are having trouble "nailing it." My musician friend drives me the craziest, because his love is so focused (and so genuine) and he also directs his physical energy that way. He doesnt have to force himself to spend hours a day honing his talent, he just does. He loves it. And yet he cant break out of bondage.

One idea would be to get a steady job that is a bit more to his liking or maybe a bit more similar to or remotely related to music. That way his energy would increase and he´d have some to invest into actual music-making.

How does that idea sound?

The service issue, which you brought up, is one of the things I have been considering. It seems quite important. And you also bring up great points about not focusing on the money. But your passive income had to be set up somehow, even if the whole focus wasnt on money, it had to be considered to some degree.

Yes. But FIRST I had the "vibe", the "state", THEN I attracted the know-how. Its typical of the mind to wear things the wrong way around


PS: You didnt answer my philosophical question:

Why, in applying this stuff, do I downplay my positive results?

[edit on 30-4-2008 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by althea041724

Update: unlike our dear sweet Skyfloating, I still DO feel the urge to work for a living,

misquote alert I do feel the urge to work...albeit not out of fear.

reply to post by Skyfloating



to my thinking, this Law-Of-Attraction, only applies to other living persons or beings.
Physical objects cannot be 'attracted' as such...
that is unless one has the ability to attain a greater force of gravity.


the "Law-of-Attraction" at one time was similar to the adage:
'For Every a Mary, There Is a Joseph'
or in another sense ...'water always seeks it's own level'


i feel you all grasp the idea.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

If you were sitting in my home as an official-coaching-client of mine, we wouldnt be making assertions about what others (who are not present and not asking for something) want or dont want, believe or dont believe, but only how the-law-of-attraction works or does not work for you. So, in that setting I wouldnt even answer these questions.

I analyze. I am more interested in the functioning in general of the law than I am in solving a personal "problem." It isnt that I personally would not like to be better able to apply the law in my own life, I would of course, who wouldnt? But that isnt my motive. Every person has something that they do, that is natural and that they feel "in the flow" when doing, (as you have stated) and for me it is analysis. Generally speaking, I do not seek things to understand or analyze, I analyze what "presents itself." It is MY way of following the flow of What IS. In this case, I want to see the formula itself. I am less concerned at the present what variable x actually represents. Thats why I threw several examples. I want to see the formula, not get a specific answer.

All that said, I do not do it "alone." My poor little brain is not a vast computer full of every bit of information I need to do the analysis, it actually isnt a "retentive" program. It is an analytical program. Which is good. I dont start off with an assumption and then fit the data to prove my assumption, I start off the the tool for analysis and then throw in the data needed to draw a relevant conclusion. The data has to be acquired somewhere. I choose it from "the problem that presents" and relevant resources. Like you. Like the scenarios I mention. I COULD use personal scenarios, but then I would be bringing my own fears/bias' into the equation, and, like I mentioned before, that is just piss poor methodology.

Ultimately, I am looking for a "missing link." No matter how good you, personally, are at this law, and regardless how many exceptional masters of this law there are, it isnt being conveyed meaningfully to the the greater whole of us. Well, there is a reason for that, and that is what I am trying to discern. "Telling the truth" and "telling the truth in a way that conveys precisely your meaning" are two VERY different things.

People assume that words have meaning. They dont. They are like envelopes. They carry meaning. Transmitting meaning requires that the speaker put themselves in the shoes of the listener first, identify what word the listener uses for the meaning the speaker wishes to convey and then the speaker uses the word/meaning package the listener is "wired" to receive. The focus, for the speaker, should always be on ensuring the MEANING is received, and the word choice should be a practical one, not a habitual one.

What generally happens, in practice, is the speaker keeps insisting on using the word/meaning package that is familiar to THEM, that makes sense to them, louder and more repetitively, hoping the listener will magically understand at some point. Think of someone talking louder and slower in English to a Spanish speaker. You see it all the time. Problem is, it is pointless.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
"In keeping with "all is one" someday people will realize that they can actually heal someone else by healing themselves. But thats for another, more advanced chapter."

I am actually very aware of that. I have asked in several different threads for someone to answer, "In Oneness, does it only take one?" or some variation of the theme. Not seeking a specific answer, per se, but to "sound the depths" of the collective understanding. Truthfully, the statement "people will realize that they can heal someone else by healing themselves" is true but incomplete. You can also use what you see in the mirror of "other," the confusion, the "problems" to determine where internally YOU are conflicted. You can bypass your own "denial" using this Oneness as well, IF you remember that; There are no other people. It is not a violation of the law to look at others for healing, it is a violation of the law to believe that they are "Other." All interaction is, crudely and clumsily stated, an internal dialog of God with God.

In order for a "problem" to persist, there has to be some level of misunderstanding in ALL. Individual aspects may be more or less conflicted, but the conflict or ignorance IS, or the "problem" would "Be not." Taken broadly, if any one of us were completely "healed" there would be no need to heal "other." Which presents some interesting implications. Which are too complicated for a post in which I have already used so many characters. Bottom line, none of us has a complete understanding of the "issues" that still confront us collectively, no matter how smoothly they have arranged things for their personal aspect. Those who think they do, are mistaken. It violates Oneness.

I do want to turn in my homework assignment. Sorry I thought it might be a rhetorical question.

It cannot be a simple answer, so I apologize. Why I think you do not stress the "positive" results.

From your writing style I would phrase the answer for YOU along lines of, "Because paying attention to the positive result is a focus on the external. It takes you outside yourself."

However, it also depends on how the question is stressed. Which aspect of the question is the real question. My answer would be two-fold.

If you mean not "Seeking" a positive result, I would say the answer is that one is to do what they do because of the flow itself, how it feels in the doing, in the moment, without care for the result. "Seeking" a result pulls one out of the present, and hence the flow, where the "magic" happens in the moment, in the flow. Being is the thing, not where that takes you.

If the stress is on the "positive" rather than on the act of pursuing that end, I would say it is because ultimately, we are not, any of us, wise enough to judge "positive" "negative" in any objectively meaningful way. What I have found to be most unpleasant in the short run has often turned out to be the greatest of of blessings in the long run. My judgment historically of "good/bad" has been fatally flawed.

Sorry if I missed other questions in that post, I need to re-read it and consider it in its entirety.