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Is the BIBLE Truth Absolute?

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posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by jakyll
 

Jesus was saying Keep All the commandments, perfectly.
But that is impossible for carnal man. I believe he also said sell all that you have and follow me and the young man walked away.
If you follow Jesus (by his word) you will be cleansed from unrighteousness
(washing by the water of the word) I don't know the chapter or verse, but Jesus said, you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free, if you continue in my word.

The baptism Jesus reffered to was
the Indwelling of the holy spirit. Being baptized with Fire.


[edit on 17-1-2008 by Clearskies]




posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


If it was impossible for a carnal man to keep all the commandments perfectly why would Jesus even bother telling people to do that


He must have known that mankind could achieve such a thing,that we could live completely without sin.

And i don't count the Catholics idiotic Original Sin in that.A child born innocent can not also be in a state of sin.





Being baptized with Fire.


But before you can be baptized with fire,the Holy Spirit,you have to have been baptized with water.That is the 1st union between man and Jesus.In many Christian faiths it is just 1 of the Seven Sacraments.


Baptism is held to be necessary both necessitate medii and præcepti. This doctrine is rounded on the words of Christ. In John 3, He declares: "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he can not enter into the kingdom of God." Christ makes no exception to this law and it is therefore general in its application, embracing both adults and infants. It is consequently not merely a necessity of precept but also a necessity of means.



[edit on 17-1-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll


Very good questions and I'm more than happy to answer them because you've posed them civilly and intelligently.


But that is not all,is it?

Matthew 19:16-19.


You stopped at verse 19 but if you keep reading, Jesus also told this rich young man that he must also give all of his worldly possession to the poor. So what's going on? He never told anyone else to do such a thing. Because the young man was being tested. He said he already obeyed the ten commandments, did "good," followed the law, and the other things you listed because he thought he had to "earn" his way into Salvation. So Jesus implied that still wasn't enough. If you are going to to try to come through works, then you better go all the way (which He also said was impossible).

It was the same thing with the Pharisees. Jesus told them you obey some laws but pick and choose which ones are still viable. He used the law about punishing children who dishonor their parents as an example. The Pharisees were so concerned with rites, rituals, and the law so Jesus told them if you reject the free gift of salvation then it is going to get pretty expensive if you think you have to buy it. You better follow the law without fail, never sin, do a good works 24 hours a day. Or, you can do it My way and accept what I give you freely because you cannot do it the other way.

He also says it's better to gouge out your eye or cut off your arm if you think it will cause you to sin. Is this literal? No! It's the same principle: If you want to do it your way by being "good" then you'll be in for a surprise because your definition of "good" is a rotten stench to me. You cannot be perfect and that is the requirement. So, come to me and I will make you perfect because you cannot do it yourself.


John 13:34-35.


True- He tells us to love one another. And not only that but to love our enemies because it takes no effort to love those who love us and that "even the pagans do that." No, He told us to love our enemies more than ourself and to pray for those who persecute us. However, this is not a salvation issue. This is what happens after we are transformed through Christ.

Remember, Jesus was talking to those who were His followers. He often switches back and forth between His followers and critics. It is confusing because it seems He is giving different groups different sets of rules. And in a way He is. But once we understand He often changes perspective when talking to believers and unbelievers it gives us a huge "Ah Ha!" understanding.


If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:15.
(here the plural is used.Jesus had more than 1 commandment.)


Again, not a salvation issue. However, we are told we will know someone is a Christians by their "fruit" (actions). How many fake Christians have you known? Probably a whole lot! They put on a suit and tie and are all smiles on Sunday morning but live like heathens Monday through Saturday. He says if you are one of my people, you won't want to take advantage of what I've given you but you will want to do what is right because you love me. In other words, don't say we're saved so let's go out and rape, murder, and pillage. If we love Him and have been transformed by Him, we will want to please Him and love our enemies.


Matthew 5;19.


But what does the very next verse say? That if this is the way we decide to do it, then we better do it to a T- even better than the temple leaders themselves. He's using examples like we mention above. If we would rather follow the law instead of receiving the free gift of salvation, then we better do it even better than the temple leaders! The next couple chapters are telling us else what needs to be done, often in the form of a hyperbole. But He clarifies in the end: This is all to store up treasures in Heaven- not to win salvation.


36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.38 This is the first and great commandment.39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Exactly. Those are the "laws" for Christians. Not "don't wear polyester" or "continue temple sacrifices." No, love God and love your fellow man. However, this is not a salvation issue either but something that happens once He transforms you. Remember, the law was never supposed to be permanent. It was only temporary until the Messiah came. Not that He abolished it- He fulfilled it. He became the law and paid the debt. It was never canceled.


Baptism is also a very important part of salvation,after all,Jesus himself was baptized by John.


Again, not a salvation issue. Yes, Jesus was baptized but did He do it to earn Salvation? Jesus!? No! Baptism is a proclamation of faith. It represents you dying to sin and your old self and being reborn into a new life with God. In Jesus' case, this was to show His ministry officially began.

Ok, and I'm reaching my character limit but think I've answered most of your questions. The rest of the quotes you offered basically come down to this: None are stipulations for salvation. Hope I have been of some help.

[edit on 1/17/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 12:39 PM
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Before or after the manipulation?



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Incarnated
What percentage of "Truth" do you percieve the bible to be???


90 %, so finally 100 %.

Another question ?



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD


You stopped at verse 19 but if you keep reading, Jesus also told this rich young man that he must also give all of his worldly possession to the poor. So what's going on? He never told anyone else to do such a thing. Because the young man was being tested. He said he already obeyed the ten commandments, did "good," followed the law, and the other things you listed because he thought he had to "earn" his way into Salvation. So Jesus implied that still wasn't enough. If you are going to to try to come through works, then you better go all the way (which He also said was impossible).



Actually, all his followers did.

Mark 10:28
28Peter said to him, "We have left everything to follow you!"
29"I tell you the truth," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life.

Jesus makes it pretty clear that we have to give all our money and possesions up.

Mark 10:23
23Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!"
24The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, "Children, how hard it is[e] to enter the kingdom of God! 25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by Shawn B.
 


He's talking about those who love their earthly possessions more than God or who value earthly wealth more than they value God. He tells us to not be so obsessed with our love of money and physical possessions (where "moth and rust destroy") but to lay up our treasures in Heaven (where "neither moth and rust destroy").

But this does not mean we abandon everything because He also says to be good stewards with what we have, to use our wealth (a gift from God) to help the less fortunate, to tend to our families and children (you cannot support children and spouses if you are an unemployed vagabond), and to occupy until His return. Go to school, get a job, get married, raise your kids, etc. But if you do- if you deny all of this for me, dedicate your entire life to me, never marry, have no possessions for yourself (think Mother Teresa), then whatever you give up for me will be repaid to you a hundredfold. But not everyone can do this, only those who are called (also explained in the New Testament).

Remember what Paul said to his fellow Christians. Did we not work while we were in your presence? Did we not work and pay for our own food, shelter, and clothing? Did we come into your community and depend on you to support us while we did nothing for ourselves? No, we worked and toiled at our professions on top of sharing the Gospel with you.

Again, this is not a salvation issue. No work is a salvation issue. A byproduct and an option but not a salvation issue.



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD


But this does not mean we abandon everything


Well, no, thats how you and most people precive it, but I don't in that way.


because He also says to be good stewards with what we have, to use our wealth (a gift from God)


Wealth doesn't mean money. Jesus was really against money, he makes his stance on it VERY clear.



to help the less fortunate, to tend to our families and children (you cannot support children and spouses if you are an unemployed vagabond),


Well, actually you can, God gave us everything we need already. Like I pointed out everyone that he declared his follower did give up all that.


Go to school, get a job, get married, raise your kids, etc.



No, Jesus never said that. In fact Jesus spoke against marriage.

And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

Luke 20:34

That world is heaven and what did Jesus aways pray to God? Let your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. People who are owrthy to obtain heaven neither marry, nor are given in marriage









[edit on 17-1-2008 by Shawn B.]



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by Shawn B.
Wealth doesn't mean money. Jesus was really against money, he makes his stance on it VERY clear.


Jesus wasn't a deadbeat. He had a job, too. He paid taxes, tithed, and did things that took... money. The love of money is what traps people. Not money itself. It is needed to take care of our families, the needy, sick, and poor. I don't understand what is so difficult.


No, Jesus never said that. In fact Jesus spoke against marriage.

And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

Luke 20:34


That's a misquote. He says we, human beings (mortals), get married but once we get to heaven we will be like the angels who do not marry. He was answering the Sadducees' (remember, that sect did not believe in an afterlife) question when they tried to trap him by asking if a woman is married to multiple men in this life, who is she married to in Heaven. Jesus responded with what I explained- no one is married in Heaven.

Just like in your other thread, you misquoted the verse and ignored the surrounding context so let's show it here:

"The people of this age [humans on earth] marry and are given to marriage [True. Humans marry]. But those who are worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection [In Heaven, the afterlife] will neither marry or be given in marriage [not be married] and they can no longer die [because they already did] for they are like the angels.



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD


Jesus wasn't a deadbeat. He had a job, too. He paid taxes, tithed, and did things that took... money. The love of money is what traps people. Not money itself. It is needed to take care of our families, the needy, sick, and poor. I don't understand what is so difficult.


See your putting words in my mouth, I never said or implyed he was a deadbeat. lol How can you be sure he had a job? We get his life form 12 then a huge gap is missing till the time he starts REALLY preaching and by that time he and his follwers have given up all like I pointed out. I never said we shouldn't help people either. No peoples need for money traps people. Jesus spoke against money plain and simple.






That's a misquote. He says we, human beings (mortals), get married but once we get to heaven we will be like the angels who do not marry. He was answering the Sadducees' (remember, that sect did not believe in an afterlife) question when they tried to trap him by asking if a woman is married to multiple men in this life, who is she married to in Heaven. Jesus responded with what I explained- no one is married in Heaven.

"The people of this age [humans on earth] marry and are given to marriage [True. Humans marry]. But those who are worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection [In Heaven, the afterlife] will neither marry or be given in marriage [not be married] and they can no longer die [because they already did] for they are like the angels.


No, see, that's how you take it, this was not a miss quote. Jesus clearly speaks against marriage. Your putting in your interpretations to justfy what you think. This age doesn't mean earth but the time/way of thinking they were living in.

"The people of this age [people during that time] marry and are given to marriage. But those who are worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection [New time, new way of thinking] will neither marry or be given in marriage [not be married] and they can no longer die [because they don't think the old way anymore]for they are like the angels."


See, you have your way and I have my way.

Who's right? Know one.





[edit on 17-1-2008 by Shawn B.]



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by Shawn B.
See your putting words in my mouth, I never said or implyed he was a deadbeat. lol


LOL! Oh, I know you didn't, Hon! I was purposely blowing things out of proportion to show that the things Jesus did took money, too.


How can you be sure he had a job?


I can't prove it but we are told explicitly he was a carpenter. When He was preaching in His hometown, the townspeople asked, "Isn't that the carpenter?"


We get his life form 12 then a huge gap is missing till the time he starts REALLY preaching and by that time he and his follwers have given up all like I pointed out. I never said we should help people either. No peoples need for money traps people. Jesus spoke against money plain and simple.


Agreed. He preached against the love of money and making it our god. Not that money itself was inherently evil and we're doomed to Hell if we get caught with a penny in our pocket.


No, see, that's how you take it


I'm taking it that way because that is exactly what it says!
Humans marry in this life but we will not be married in the next life.


Jesus clearly speaks against marriage.


If that is what you believe then you're ignoring all the verses that refer to how we should act within the marital union. He did not speak against marriage- He spoke against divorce and adultery. There are dozens upon dozens of passages that refer to Christian marriage in the New Testament.


Your putting in your interpretations to justfy what you think.


My interpretation? It's there in black and white. It needs no interpretation.



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 04:51 PM
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Well that's okay you can think what you want to think. My beliefs do not require you to believe. I know you see it in black and white, most people do, but I see it in the brightest of colors.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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I hope you all don't mind if I post this here.

First Temple seal found in Jerusalem

www.jpost.com...




The 2,500-year-old black stone seal, which has the name "Temech" engraved on it, was found earlier this week amid stratified debris in the excavation under way just outside the Old City walls near the Dung Gate, said archeologist Dr. Eilat Mazar, who is leading the dig. According to the Book of Nehemiah, the Temech family were servants of the First Temple and were sent into exile to Babylon following its destruction by the Babylonians in 586 BCE. The Bible refers to the Temech family: "These are the children of the province, that went up out of the captivity, of those that had been carried away, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away, and came again to Jerusalem and to Judah, every one unto his city." [Nehemiah 7:6]... "The Nethinim [7:46]"... The children of Temech." [7:55].




"The seal of the Temech family gives us a direct connection between archeology and the biblical sources and serves as actual evidence of a family mentioned in the Bible," she said. "One cannot help being astonished by the credibility of the biblical source as seen by the archaeological find."



archaeology-in-news.blogspot.com...

[edit on 043131p://bFriday2008 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Legalizer
The absolute reply is NO
The bible is full of fiction and fantasies.

Time Magazine, The Bible Fact or Fiction

On the other hand, say many scholars, much of what is recorded in the Bible is at best distorted, and some characters and events are probably totally fictional. Most scholars suspect that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Judaism's traditional founders, never existed; many doubt the tales of slavery in Egypt and the Exodus; and relatively few modern historians believe in Joshua's conquest of Jericho and the rest of the Promised Land. In the most extreme view, all of the above are complete fabrications, invented centuries after the supposed fact.


The believers in the bible are just as distorted as these tales.

The Bible is an ancient comic book, and its believers are nothing more than rabid comic book fans.

Whose more powerful Jesus only son of god, or Jor-el only son of krpton?
Superman is a fiction created by jews too, coincidence?



Problem is, I have personally met 3 of the Biblical prophets who are still alive and well today. The bible can not be a total fantasy if there are living eyewitness accounts of its authenticity.

For more info on this, check out my main blog at Ben-Abba.com



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 12:11 AM
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I have not posted on this site for a couple of years. But I thought that I would put my two cents worth in!

I believed all of my life - until a few years ago, that the Bible was divinely written for the masses and for our good. It was to lead us to the "truth." I still believe the Bible was written for a special purpose but not for what I had been taught and believed for so many years.

Let me throw out my thoughts. I have come to believe that the Bible serves two purposes: 1; to mislead mankind and 2; reveal hidden sacred secrets that would would take a great deal of effort to discover.

What better way for the Gods to dupe mankind but to have a book written that would confound and be used to control and cause conflict amongst the religions of the world?

What if the Apostle Paul was not used in as favorable way as a Christians might believe? Suppose he fulfilled a role contrary to what we have been taught and one that may not be as righteous?

As a person who had been a devout Christian all of my life, there were questions that I never could find the answers for. For-instance, I always felt that there was something not quite right with the Apostle Paul. I never really liked him, yet, he is the foundation of Christianity. It became easy for me to believe and understand that perhaps "he" is the one who started it and not Christ. This brought up the question: if he is significant to the whole New Testament, and my senses told me he wasn't quite right, then what does that say about the Bible? It added to my quandary for a long time.

Was the Bible written by "The Gods" as a mystery to dupe religious mankind? I started looking at the Bible as a mystery book with its cast of characters, plot, and climax. Then recognized its sub-plots, useless characters and occurrences, to purposely mislead the reader. I came to believe that the Bible was written by the Gods, allowing error and misunderstandings to be incorporated into its writings. Has it not created conflict amongst religions - each believing "they" have the truth or correct understanding? Each can quote from its pages and each will be convinced that they are right.

How can the Gods be favoring this world situation? Why make it so obscure? Is it part of their plan? I decided to get out of the box and to look at the Bible in an entirely different way. (Becoming an atheist was not an option for it is just another religion to me.) What could it hurt, I asked myself? I wanted and felt I needed answers. So I let go of most of my beliefs that I had been taught and started looking at the Bible in a much more obscure - abstract way. Take away the dogma, ritual, and seeming fanatical aspects and it seemed like there was a story within the story! All waiting to be discovered.

You may not agree and I do not expect it. But what if there is some truth to what I am saying?

The Bible is - I believe, a divinely written book. But for what purpose? That may be the most important question we can ask ourselves.

Matrix Prophet
P.S. you may want to check out...michelelyon.com



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 03:41 PM
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The bible is a group of documents many that have been really rewritten almost to the point of lies. Such Spiritual Spin Doctors of Doctrine in documentation makes the conscepts of God in the bible past its shielf date.

Maybe the bible should have a stamp put on it saying "Best if consumed by 2012"



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 04:31 PM
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Well, the Bible mentions some interesting things, one of them being a cockatrice. Anybody who thinks the Bible is infallible and absolute ought to go hunting for a cockatrice. Even a skeleton will do.



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by Nohup
Well, the Bible mentions some interesting things, one of them being a cockatrice. Anybody who thinks the Bible is infallible and absolute ought to go hunting for a cockatrice. Even a skeleton will do.


Such things can be placed in the artistic aspects of "truth".



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Nohup
Well, the Bible mentions some interesting things, one of them being a cockatrice. Anybody who thinks the Bible is infallible and absolute ought to go hunting for a cockatrice. Even a skeleton will do.


Such things can be placed in the artistic aspects of "truth". It's spiritual truth in understandings of "hidden" things.

Quite like the Leviathan.
en.wikipedia.org...

Personally I see the Leviathan as the percession through the zodicial belt. It's hidden meanings.



posted on Mar, 2 2008 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by Incarnated



Your words are meaningless to me because you don't really understand. It's not given to you to understand it. It is beyond you at this time



Then the lord would have never called you to teach to those an angel would know can not understand.

In the "end" I'll be proven exactly what I've said I am. Try not to make too big of an ass (mule) of yourself on my account.


I’m afraid it IS the “end” for you incarnate and you have proven to be exactly what we thought you are.

Your words are meaningless to me



Yeah,, know,,

yet you insist for your own ego, that we give meaning your every word as divine truth.
It is in the context of that attitude along with many discussions among us Christians to have to inform you of the following.

If you are IN FACT Michael the Arc Angle incarnated then I am afraid that what I am going to tell you, Michael would have never been accused of. The decision to do this at the risk of having the post deleted will be sent among those Christians in agreement as a spiritual obligation prescribed in Mt.7:16-17: where Jesus is explaining how to determine a false prophet. He then goes into a description of what they do and say to validate them.

False prophets speak under a different spirit; to test them is for our own protection.

1 Jn.4- "Jesus has come in the flesh" means God came by Jesus as a man. He was raised in the same body and continues living in it. In 1 John 4, he is addressing those who denied that Christ (God) actually came as a human being, and has risen in the same body and will return in that same body. Those who deny this are anti-Christ. (see 2 Jn.7-9)

this was one of the doctrinal tests applied to the prophets.

On behalf of those Christians calling for your public Rebuke, debunking you once and for all as a liar and a charlatan, know that our decision comes from Christians whose council and prayer have been shared here on this forum in private messages and emails.

Those who were not available for online prayer and council we pray and are confident their spiritual discernment will acknowledge this as a Christian’s spiritual obligation to test and debunk false prophets posing as supernatural messengers or Angels of God.

As foolish as we may have looked to engage in your false teaching putting our spirit at risk, know that all of us have given you the benefit of the doubt with the confidence that who you say you are,, can be tested according to the scriptures and that the testing of your teaching has brought forth bad fruit and is not of Gods word, Doctrine and certainly not of an Angel, a messenger from God.


In an online meeting with many of the mainstream Christians who believe The Bible to be their stable datum, their standard for truth and a guide for instruction for the testing of prophets and / or person or being claiming to be angel and / or prophet of God, we have come to the decision to hold you in contempt pending your spiritual obligation to allow yourself to be tested and judged according to the practices and teachings found in scripture.

Know that we have discussed this and the consequences of your failure to open yourself to being tested as an alleged Angel and / or "special" messenger and / or Prophet of God. A full examination of what is being said is the safest course for every believer in Christ. All supernatural events and / or beings i.e.; Angels, Messengers of God, Healers, etc,. Must be tested before they can be embraced as truth.

The Words you have said in posts in threads created by you to attract an audience where that audience may have their spiritual weakness exploited and corrupted. I myself along with others who have questioned you and your motives have the spiritual RIGHT to request answers from any one posing as a teacher / authority / prophet / or supernatural being, regardless of whether or not they say what they teach, we have not the capacity to understand.

It is universally known and unanimously accepted, that one who poses as anointed by God or Called to teach his word would be re-miss in not living up to the reputation of a good teacher, a facilitator for furthering spiritual doctrine and biblical understanding.

It is incumbent on the teacher / authority / prophet / or supernatural being, that what he starts, he finishes, and that what he teaches, he teaches well. It is agreed their intention for what they teach, his or /her students would walk away with more knowledge and understanding, then when they were first invited to come

Know that we take our Christianity seriously and Any teacher / authority / prophet / or supernatural being must have its correct interpretation or one finds himself wandering from the original intent of the author which would put them outside the truthfulness of the Scriptures. They would then believe in a false concept of the Word which God never intended.

This is something the Holy Spirit cannot validate, honor, or communicate.

Any teacher / authority / prophet / or supernatural being would know this and would know better then to practice confusion impersonating the Arc Angel, Michael incarnate in false witness, and egregious deception.

To say such things is to know one can not take it any less then extraordinary expecting extraordinary results from such an extraordinary entity, teacher messenger, an Angle from God.

That to whom much is given

MUCH IS EXPECTED,

Much was expected by those you infected bearing false witness, expecting answers not respected our questions you rejected

By their fruits, you shall know them to be filled with the Spirit means that someone will act spiritual- that they are under the control of the Spirit and the fruit of his presence will show. The teaching you have offered in the name of the lord, as the incarnate arc angel Michael holds you in judgment by the same standard you have held yourself accountable for. After seeking the council of those you have judged, beneath you in their level of biblical understanding, at first, we were apprehensive to judge you according to scripture, See Below:

"Do not judge lest you be judged.” For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Mt. 7:1-2:”

After seeking the lord’s wisdom, we find the following reason not to judge you, is in error and that you have used this passage against us. It has been shown you use the following as a manipulation to avoid incrimination.

“Do not judge lest you be judged.”

Those who do not want to be tested in their teachings use this verse to escape being criticized or questioned regarding their credibility or any challenge to their authority as a prophet and / or messenger of God.

Vs.2 clarifies what Jesus is saying: if we make judgments on others, then we are to submit to be judged by the same standards.

Like a Policeman who enforces the law, more then anyone else, they must set the best example of law abiding citizens. Should they be a law breaker taking advantage of their position where they enforce the law, then the law should judge them by the same standard they were in the capacity of enforcing it.

We have all heard of what happens to dirty cops in prison.


You have consistently and quite earnestly "shunned" your calling to teach in the name of the lord in favor for an excuse to avoid incrimination behind the guise of your "supernatural" comprehension while condescendingly criticizing us for not understanding the very lessons you offered to have us learn.

Does a teacher offer the mentally retarded special classes that the teacher knows they will not understand? Does it not require more patience and more commitment to a teachers calling to teach those with a lesser capacity to learn? You announced by identifying yourself as a messenger from God a high ranking angel where one would expect such a commitment and extra patience could be expected from you.

Is that teacher not wrong to blame the mentally retarded student for not understanding the calculus they offered to teach? How about any other student?

If you had a child who came home from school and said he was taught "1234567" is the alphabet and that "abcdefg" are the numbers 1-7, would you not correct him?

Would you go to his teacher to investigate why he is being taught this?

Would you being doing this because you are judgmental or out of love?

If you didn't do any of this could you say you are a good parent!

Is it wrong for the parent not to rebuke the teacher and warn other parents whose kids also attend his false teaching? If we judge things which are non spiritual, how much more important are the things that are ? If you are a Christian, the answer comes easily.

You have left us with nothing but un-answered questions putting your testimony in question itself. We have a Christian spiritual and moral obligation to publicly rebuke you and to make other Christians aware that you are a liar and a Charlatan,,

On behalf of those Christians in addition to any that use the quote below

We Christian members of ATS have found the member known as “incarnate” to be a false witness.
We have concluded according to the scriptures given in the above that you are NOT an Angel or supernatural messenger of God. That you are a fraud in sheep’s clothing.



That you have been, unequivocally and absolutely,



debunked


-Con



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