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Masonry and Compartmentalized Secrecy - Not So Easy To Dismiss

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posted on Feb, 21 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by mister.old.school
 


May I ask what that has to do with this thread?

The "Information Office" is not its own office, its own department, it is a collective offices and it in its self has no power..

But again, may I ask what this has to do with the thread at hand? Nothing. Now you may be allowed to post off topic nonesense about my integrety.. which I am not sure why it is exlussive for you people, but I would prefer if the mods say "stay on topic" you do.




posted on Feb, 21 2008 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by NewWorldOver

I am sometimes bewildered by the Masons ability to use quotation marks for things like higher and lower levels. When you have so many members swaggering about professing themselves to be Second Degree, Third Degree, Masters etc.


I am bewildered by this statement. There is not one instance of anyone here on Above Top Secret 'sawggering about' professing themselves to be second degree Masons, or any degree for that matter. Also, for what its worth, third degree is the equivalent of Master Mason.


And then when the topic of ranking comes up they act as if it's some alien concept. Yes, the 'higher level' or higher ranking individual will always have influence of lower ranking compartments, and if this concept seems odd to Masons I must again ask whether or not we are existing in the same reality.


We act like it is alien because it is alien. All the Masons on Above Top Secret, as far as I know, are allMaster Masons and therefore none of us 'outrank' the other. Additonally, we hail from all parts of the world and for this reason have no influence Masonically over the others decisions.



posted on Feb, 21 2008 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by NewWorldOver
 



And then when the topic of ranking comes up they act as if it's some alien concept. Yes, the 'higher level' or higher ranking individual will always have influence of lower ranking compartments, and if this concept seems odd to Masons I must again ask whether or not we are existing in the same reality.


I must again ask how? You accuse me of pigeonholing your statement, yet you keep repeating the same claim. Prove it. Give us an example. How could questioning one of your central claims be pigeonholing?


This is a conspiracy forum where we will continue to discuss Masonry as we see fit.


There you go again attempting to moderate the forums.

I am not a Mason, if you had read my posts you would have known that. Why to you keep ignoring the points I'm making?

Perhaps because you have no point.


Once again NewWorldOver, How does a hidden compartment within freemasonry control/influence the rest of freemasonry? Remember, Masonry is decentralized. You seem to not understand the concept of decentralization at all.

Please read my previous post, as I have given you examples of how commands can be passed down within a centralized command structure. Now if you could only give us an example of this being done within freemasonry...


[edit on 21/2/08 by ConspiracyNut23]



posted on Feb, 21 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
We act like it is alien because it is alien. All the Masons on Above Top Secret, as far as I know, are allMaster Masons and therefore none of us 'outrank' the other. Additonally, we hail from all parts of the world and for this reason have no influence Masonically over the others decisions.


Augustus, sometimes I wonder if it is not allegiance to Masonry that causes all the disputes on this forum, or the enormous ego complex of Masons within this forum.

Why must you assume that we non-masons or 'anti-masons' consider you to be involved in any conspiracy?

When we speculate on Masonry and conspiracy within Masonry, we are not including the Masons on ATS. In fact, we do not consider you to be the least bit involved in any conspiracy.

So what is it that causes Masons to constantly assume that they are the subject of a Masonic conspiracy? Do you really believe you are that influential and well known? Or are you just flattering yourselves?

Those are rhetorical questions



posted on Feb, 21 2008 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
But again, may I ask what this has to do with the thread at hand?

I would put forth the notion, for this thread, that we must apply an appropriate grain of salt for nearly any statement you make which is purported to be fact. It's important in this thread, or any thread, to have confidence that those in which we engage are choosing to be involved in these topics through a sincere effort to discover truths.

Your insistence that a government office never existed, and the logo was hoaxed, when it fact the office did exist and logo is valid must be a concern -- especially since you've not retracted your claim given undeniable evidence that you were wrong.

Certainly, you can see how this might cause concern -- in this or any thread.



posted on Feb, 22 2008 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by NewWorldOver
Augustus, sometimes I wonder if it is not allegiance to Masonry that causes all the disputes on this forum, or the enormous ego complex of Masons within this forum.


No, I actually think it is rampant speculation without substantiation.


Why must you assume that we non-masons or 'anti-masons' consider you to be involved in any conspiracy?


I did not assume anything, it is you who is now assuming. I answered this remark;


originally posted by NewWorldOver
Yes, the 'higher level' or higher ranking individual will always have influence of lower ranking...


Notice my answer mentioned nothing of conspiracy, only refuting the influence aspect of your comment. Please try to read my responses carefully as I do take time to attempt to respond to your remarks in a lucid and truthful manner.


When we speculate on Masonry and conspiracy within Masonry, we are not including the Masons on ATS. In fact, we do not consider you to be the least bit involved in any conspiracy.


Who is 'we'? I try to answer posts on a case by case basis, whether they deal with 'Masonic conspiracy' or not. Unless you are nominated spokesperson for 'we' then I will continue to do so.

[edit on 22-2-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 05:07 PM
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I guess the problem is the nomination of the 'we' versus 'they'. Who speaks for whom and how eloquently? The reality is that we speak for ourselves and ourselves alone no matter how much the other wants to believe that there's a 'we' being spoken for.

As a Mason, I speak for myself and my experience only. I look at the posting of other estwhile Masons and I judge them by how what they say jibes with my own experiences of Freemasonry. Accept it or not, nought of what I've seen posted by the likes of Masonic Light or Trinityman is at odds with a rational extension of my own experiences of Masonry. However, as non-Masons you have only my word to accept on that front and whether or not you accept thT is entirely based on whether or not you believe that I'm being truthful in my postings in general. That's the challenge of the Internet. Look at the 'person' as a whole. You're being challenged and it isn't an easy challenge at that.

If you're of the mind that Masonry's inehrently bad, then precious little I or anybody else says is going to sway you from that mindset. However, if you believe that every man that you meet on the street is inherently capable and predisposed to good, then you must keep a positive outlook and pursue it.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Once again NewWorldOver, How does a hidden compartment within freemasonry control/influence the rest of freemasonry? Remember, Masonry is decentralized. You seem to not understand the concept of decentralization at all.

Please read my previous post, as I have given you examples of how commands can be passed down within a centralized command structure. Now if you could only give us an example of this being done within freemasonry...
[edit on 21/2/08 by ConspiracyNut23]


NewWorldOver, I too am awaiting your response to this one with keen anticipation.

Even just a theory as to how a compartmentalised body within Masonry could conceivably control such a de-centralised organisation...



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 10:50 PM
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*tumbleweed rolls past*




*crickets chirp*



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by senrak
 


We don't believe you are plotting to take over the world, it has already been taken over - thousands of years ago, you are simply just a cog a working slave, the New World Order isn't new, Its the tittle of Hitlers second book - a thousand years bright, a thousand bright lights!



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by spirit7
 


Jesus and Christianity is in no way original or unique its rescripted from the ancient mystery religions of Egypt and Babylon, Horus and Tammuz!



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:04 PM
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No, I actually think it is rampant speculation without substantiation.

If there is no substance to the argument against Freemasons and Freemasonry then please explain to me the 33rd degree north parallel line and all the atrocities that have occurred on that line across many countries??????

Government is an association of men who kill the rest of us. They call their enemies what they are and always tell the exact opposite of the truth.

Patriotism, the last refuge of the scoundrel, emboldens the blood and narrows the mind.

Some things may have changed but the chains haven't - Democracy is worse then fascism it is the same but a world of unseen dictatorship.

"History has shown that what our government does to others today, it will do to America tomorrow." - John Dean

Anarchy now, Apophis 2012!



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by Roark
 


Just look at the financial crisis how many people of all different walks in life has that effected. they do it by not letting the left hand know what the right is up to!



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


Ha ha masonic light omg you guys think you're illuminated with knowledge but you are still being lied to. There is no supreme being there is no god, how can you have something before anything create everything out of nothing including himself? its all inconceivable, the word god is inconceivable!

The reason masons don't care what god you believe in as long as you do believe and you are not an atheist is because if you are that dumb to believe such an incoherent story one of superstition that is Jehovah Elohim Allah jahbalon jesus Krishna buddah Baal Ra Horus Isis Osiris and any other god created by man then you are already on the first step to being brain washed and mind controlled. every god ever created by man is based on an analogy of the stars the moon the sun or a prominent constellation such as the zodiac.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by AnarchynowApophis2012
If there is no substance to the argument against Freemasons and Freemasonry then please explain to me the 33rd degree north parallel line and all the atrocities that have occurred on that line across many countries??????


In order to sustain this, you would need to show its true - I am not convinced it is true, especially if you were to do the same for every other parallel line. Of course without even proving it its pretty easy to dismiss: when you draw a line around the earth and give it the course of human history, you will find lots of things occur because you've drawn a huge line.

And the rest of your post is typical anti-government ranting. It doesn't have a relation to freemasonry so responding to it would be off-topic. Everything else is just your usual militant frothing at the mouth atheist rant, however, because I'm a sucker I am going to respond to it anyways:


Originally posted by AnarchynowApophis2012
Ha ha masonic light omg you guys think you're illuminated with knowledge but you are still being lied to. There is no supreme being there is no god, how can you have something before anything create everything out of nothing including himself? its all inconceivable, the word god is inconceivable!


Simply because you are incapable of understanding God does not mean that God cannot exist. If God exists then by default He is a bit smarter than you, and he would be perfectly capable of transcending your capability to grasp his existence.


Originally posted by AnarchynowApophis2012
The reason masons don't care what god you believe in as long as you do believe and you are not an atheist is because if you are that dumb to believe such an incoherent story one of superstition that is Jehovah Elohim Allah jahbalon jesus Krishna buddah Baal Ra Horus Isis Osiris and any other god created by man then you are already on the first step to being brain washed and mind controlled. every god ever created by man is based on an analogy of the stars the moon the sun or a prominent constellation such as the zodiac.


No, the reason why masons allow you believe in whatever you want is because its a secular fraternity and is open to people of all creeds.

Your incoherent religious rant demonstrates your a member of the Zeitgeist faithful, you bought it whole sale and it consumes you, unfortunately its been debunked, and everything it says (and thus what you have said) is untrue:

www.conspiracyscience.com...



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 12:47 AM
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reply to post by LowLevelMason
 


The 33rd parallel line does exist it is real and more blood has been spilt along that line then any other, it crosses Iraq, it is where the trinity site is, Hiroshima was on 33rd degree line and every state in America that crosses the line has the death penalty!

it is obvious Jesus is a story of the annual cycle of the sun thats why pagans and Egypt and Babylon have the same stories, there is even stone carvings in Babylon showing three kings or wise men delivering gifts to the new born SUN.

What about Bohemian Grove?

I don't care even if Masons believe in Lucifer he still doesn't exist Lucifer always was always will be Venus!

Masons worship and partake in rituals gratifying every god on their way to the 33rd degree. They pay homage to Lucifer because they created the deity like every other one.

I am anti mason anti religion anti government and i oppose the education system and media all are keeping up the same lie, hiding the truth and protecting our true adversaries. One day there will be enough people who will wake up, when that day comes masons will be found beheaded in the street along with every political leader!

Another thing God was considered a female first before monotheistic religion came along. They changed him to a father figure to help relate how they want you to behave, mind control mind terrorism even the word government says it all, govern = to control ment = mente = your mind! enough said, why defend something when they admit they want a new world order, they tell you everything they hide it all in plain sight.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 12:52 AM
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reply to post by LowLevelMason
 


zeitgeist doesn't give u any answers but it shows you some good things you can't deny that there was the same story of jesus thousands of years earlier why because every son of god of half man half god born of a virgin is simply a story of the annual cycle of the sun, you don't need zietgeist to know that you just have to follow the history of osiris-dionysus



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by AnarchynowApophis2012
The 33rd parallel line does exist it is real and more blood has been spilt along that line then any other, it crosses Iraq, it is where the trinity site is, Hiroshima was on 33rd degree line and every state in America that crosses the line has the death penalty!


And what about the 32nd? And the 31st? And the 25th? This line of argument is pointless until you catalogue all of history based on parallel lines and show that a unusual number of events have occurred on these imaginary lines.


Originally posted by AnarchynowApophis2012
it is obvious Jesus is a story of the annual cycle of the sun thats why pagans and Egypt and Babylon have the same stories, there is even stone carvings in Babylon showing three kings or wise men delivering gifts to the new born SUN.


No, its not obvious at all. In fact all evidence speaks against it. This whole "OMG JESUS IS JUST A SUN MYTH" is brought out by the New Age crowd and adopted by the militant atheists. All the research has debunked it. See the link I posted.


Originally posted by AnarchynowApophis2012
What about Bohemian Grove?


What about it? Its a meeting place for men in power, it has nothing to do with freemasonry.


Originally posted by AnarchynowApophis2012
I don't care even if Masons believe in Lucifer he still doesn't exist Lucifer always was always will be Venus!


I'm happy for you, either way freemasonry doesn't teach a belief in Lucifer.


Originally posted by AnarchynowApophis2012
Masons worship and partake in rituals gratifying every god on their way to the 33rd degree. They pay homage to Lucifer because they created the deity like every other one.


The first sign that someone is not informed about masonry is that they have created this imaginary pyramid with the 1st degree at the bottom and the 33rd degree at the top, and they assume that these are the degrees of freemasonry and that you have to do something to get to each degree. Its just wrong, the 33rd degree obsession is a Scottish Rite system and there are a ton of other side bodies that masons choose to join that have just as much validity. Furthermore, it takes 2 days in the Scottish Rite to go from the 4th to the 32nd and as a 32nd degree mason there is no ritual gratifying ANY god on the way there, nor is there any homage to lucifer. Stop making things up.


Originally posted by AnarchynowApophis2012
I am anti mason anti religion anti government and i oppose the education system and media all are keeping up the same lie, hiding the truth and protecting our true adversaries. One day there will be enough people who will wake up, when that day comes masons will be found beheaded in the street along with every political leader!


Yes I know its all the rage amongst conspiracy theorists to be against THE MAN but masonry has nothing to do with these other things. Redirect your anger towards something real.


Originally posted by AnarchynowApophis2012
Another thing God was considered a female first before monotheistic religion came along. They changed him to a father figure to help relate how they want you to behave, mind control mind terrorism even the word government says it all, govern = to control ment = mente = your mind! enough said, why defend something when they admit they want a new world order, they tell you everything they hide it all in plain sight.


Not based in fact, another myth.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by LowLevelMason]



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by LowLevelMason
 


The only thing good about the religious documents of the Jews and Arabs and Hindus is the great scientific and genetic and astrological information you should be asking where all this comes from, because this is th real reason for writing them they are encoded with esoteric knowledge the public religion is for fools!

No bible Koran or Torah is expressing that god exists that he created man and the world this is not what these books are telling you, if you knew how to read them properly you would see!

I suggest read into Michael Tsarion, and Jordan Maxwell



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 01:13 AM
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reply to post by LowLevelMason
 


Um are u that ignorant or just blind, you are only a low level mason you wouldn't know whats real or myth Albert Pike in morals and Dogma states clearly that low level masons are lied to and that symbols and stories are misrepresented on purpose.

do you have the blue book that tells you in detail the 33 blood oaths you have to take every degree brings a blood oath like ripping tongues from your roots, or ripping your heart out to be pecked by birds or burying someone to their neck and watch the ocean tide rise and drown you. every degree contains a ritual a secret which you probably wouldn't realize and a blood oath to stop you from telling anyone what you have just witnessed.

Jesus = sun if you think thats a myth you are an ignorant fool Solomon Abraham all don't exist there is no historical evidence to suggest they ever did. sol = sun om = sun on = sun


If your not a conspiracy theorist then you are a coincidence theorist!



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