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You can't take Christ out of Christmas

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posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 04:28 PM
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I think that the problem might be that everyone is so accustomed to this holiday being all about Christian lore as opposed to the original celebration. There is no need, in my mind, to change the Cristmas day in any way, if only we would realize that there are at least 3 or 4 other religions that also celebrate at this time of year.

Christmas is only on one day, Hannukah lasts for 8 days (and is a far far older religion) so should we not have decorations and celebrations for this holiday as well? Why should we only associate one holiday with this time of year?

This would be partly due to the people who rule the country. Conservatives are generally Christians, thus they would propel their holiday to the forefront. I wonder what would happen if a Jewish or Athiest, or Muslim got elected as president/prime minister? Would the holidays change?.....




posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by Mantys

This would be partly due to the people who rule the country. Conservatives are generally Christians, thus they would propel their holiday to the forefront.





I really don't think that has anything to do with it. Christmas is celebrated by conservatives and liberals both. And it is celebrated in more countries than just United States. In fact...it predates the United States.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by Lightmare
 


I've been watching this thread for the past while, and wanted to say this:

Ever since the council of Nicea 325-326 AD, ever since the calendar change-ups - 'Gregorian/Julian/and otherwise, ever since the Government/Church divisions...

I don't think it makes one iota difference how and when people will celebrate their hollidays.

Until we find out the exact date of Christ's birth, Christians will stick to their guns with a specific date: December 25. Period.

Whether this date falls on/coincides with the 'winter solstace', is of NO consolation in this day and age.

Whether Constantine 'intermixed' Christianity with Pagan festivities, is of NO consequence in this day and age.

What IS of consequence: Is whether we choose to 'celebrate' Christ's birthday or not.

Santa Claus is NOT Christmas. This figure has become synominous with this time of year; however, he isn't the basis 'behind' Christmas.

I think that alot of people - including Christians - have forgotten 'How to Love one another' (through indifferences and whatnot), 'How to turn the other cheek' (to indifferences and whatnot), and 'How to have PATIENCE' (to these indifferences/attitudes/and not-like-minded behaviors).

Christ said: (Paraphrasing) "They profess to worship Me, but are stuck in the ways of man."

I understand the 'passion' behind the words of the OP.

I understand the 'consumer comercialism' surrounding the holliday season - to which sickens me to no end.

I DON'T understand how some people can 'slough aside' something that is concidered to be important to a very big majority of the world...a representation, a heartful 'meaning' to people's minds/body/soul, by negating the Christ from Christmas.

Please Forgive me when I say this:

How would Muslims feel if we took 'Mohammed' out of their faith?

How would Budhist's feel if we took 'Budha' out of the picture?


It probably wouldn't mean much now, would it?

You're probably thinking..."It's the message that counts, more than the messenger." You're probably right.

Let's not dilute the meaning behind our celebrations.

Until there is actual and true facts presented, as to the 'real birth date of Christ', let's celebrate in the only ways that we can.

With so many mis-givings/wars/ and other negative things in this world, let's take this time and be good to each other. Share with those less fortunate, and be a kind and loving person to all we meet. Qualities, that should be expressed all year round.

This season isn't called X-mas. It's called Christmas for a reason.

Whether you believe that Christ existed or not, the message remains the same.

Don't shoot the messenger.

God BLESS...and Merry Christmas to ALL.

Love,

~Ducky~







[edit on 22-12-2007 by TheDuckster]



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 06:22 PM
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christmas is just a way to whitewash over a holiday involving gluttony, inebriation, and sodomy and then convert people from paganism. in fact, the most vocal enemies of christmas in the history of the USA have been... wait for it... CHRISTIANS. yes, look into it and you will realize that many many christians didn't celebrate christmas for a very very long time.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


The 'message' behind 'Christ', is MOST important...above all else.

As I've stated before: (paraphrasing)...I don't like 'commercialism' and the other 'negative qualities' that have been bestowed upon the season.

I DO believe, that if people (could take an 'introspect' of their lives) that there are many positive and meaningful 'qualities' that surrounds 'Christ's' message to the masses.

However people would deem this individual; His messages stand.

Be it 'Budha' or any other such person, that represents 'highest aspects of mankind', There is NO such need to 'negate' the Christ from Christmas.

THE AGENDA, by our own Canadian - Steve Paikin:

One viewer's response by Sean Webb:


Diversity is Canadian culture
I'm a third generation Canadian (currently living and working outside of the country most of the year) and I enjoy the holiday season. Which means that I like to have time to spend with friends and relatives. And I'm glad that christians, jews, muslims, hindus, pagans and such have time to spend time with their friends and families. It doesn't matter to me if people choose to deck the halls, light the candles,


~Ducky~



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 08:05 PM
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The nativitiy on display on public property at the expense to the secular tax payers is a huge waste and a pathetic statement by local government.

It basically says "We believe this totally bogus fable about little baby messiah being born in a barn, and you should too"

Do we really need the politicians to lie to us all year and then put up a display that rubs it in everyone's faces?

Christmas is all about lies. "The savior was born with cows" and "Be good or Santa won't come", people who still hang on to this trash tradition are just ignorant.




[edit on 22-12-2007 by Legalizer]



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by W3RLIED2





You preach acceptance but treat me like I'm below you because i don't share your religious beliefs?


I haven't "preached" a thing YOU responded to ME and bluntly critisized ME and said my post was the most ridiculous thing you had ever read. Then you tell me not to get upset? I So it's ok for you to talk like that directly to me to my post and insult me and my post and even though I am NOT upset , you invalidate my right to be too



but i'm the one with the agenda, because i'm atheist....


Yes thanks for making that clear.



whose posted more about me being a god hating atheist and talked down to me for being one?


If you want to feel like I treat you below others, a feeling that never occured to me but you might want to consider that no one, not me or anyone else can give you an inferiority complex,

without your consent.


- Con


[edit on 22-12-2007 by Conspiriology]



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99

What are you talking about? USA has a bigger Christian population...I'm sure if you goto Israel they have that stuff all year round. If you go to Mecca you will see their stuff all year round. Why don't you go make a complaint about them?

Christmas should be celebrated by everyone but if you drop the traditions of Christ and just make it a shopping holiday then that is wrong.



Thank You! I couldn't have said it better and is the very reason to KEEP IT IN. Those who want to cheapen it making it nothing but a shopping day are the dame ones trying to use that as a reason to critisize it for that very reason yet don't see the drop dead common sense stated in your post.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by Legalizer
The nativitiy on display on public property at the expense to the secular tax payers is a huge waste and a pathetic statement by local government.

It basically says "We believe this totally bogus fable about little baby messiah being born in a barn, and you should too"

Do we really need the politicians to lie to us all year and then put up a display that rubs it in everyone's faces?

Christmas is all about lies. "The savior was born with cows" and "Be good or Santa won't come", people who still hang on to this trash tradition are just ignorant.

[edit on 22-12-2007 by Legalizer]


Don't worry,, you'll live.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 08:30 PM
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posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
many many christians didn't celebrate christmas for a very very long time.



Here again another of ATS avowed atheists coming to show us "The Facts" and the fact is whether we did or didn't ,, we do now is that ok with you?




christmas is just a way to whitewash over a holiday involving gluttony, inebriation, and sodomy and then convert people from paganism.


So? whats your point? gonna call us hipocrites? We can always make room for more ot our church so why don't ya join us sunday.




in fact, the most vocal enemies of christmas in the history of the USA have been... wait for it... CHRISTIANS. yes, look into it and you will realize that


So? whats your point? gonna call us hipocrites? We can always make room for more ot our church so why don't ya join us sunday.




[edit on 22-12-2007 by Conspiriology]



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 08:43 PM
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posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 08:47 PM
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Let's tone down the focus on each other in this thread... okay?

Peace on earth, goodwill and all that.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 12:49 AM
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Thank you for bringing civility back into the thread, and my warm welcome to Duckster for reading my mind earlier in this thread regarding his post.
/ hug brother


Originally posted by Legalizer
The nativitiy on display on public property at the expense to the secular tax payers is a huge waste and a pathetic statement by local government.


Well, this is a free country, and whats good for the citizens is good for the government. Youll see some Government offices embracing it, while others choose not to..welcome to America..home of the free.


Originally posted by Legalizer
It basically says "We believe this totally bogus fable about little baby messiah being born in a barn, and you should too"


Perhaps I could condense it down a little for better comprehension.

A baby was born named Jesus that we understand to be the Son of God. He grew up, taught universal love, kindness and compassion, died on a cross for all of mankinds sins, rose from the dead and showed us death isnt the end. As of this day there are about 2 billion followers worldwide.


Originally posted by Legalizer
Do we really need the politicians to lie to us all year and then put up a display that rubs it in everyone's faces?


They do it all the time, they call it elections.


Originally posted by Legalizer
Christmas is all about lies. "The savior was born with cows"


I thought you said this was a Fable...Is the cow issue really an issue?

There was air there too, Im pretty sure. Could have been some water, but theres no historical evidence of that.


Originally posted by Legalizer
and "Be good or Santa won't come", people who still hang on to this trash tradition are just ignorant.
[edit on 22-12-2007 by Legalizer]


Do you have any children? When your kids go out and vandalize the neighborhood, do you go out and buy them a new bike?
While Santa is fictional as an individual, the spirit of his creation was goodness.

Be Good. Be Kind. Give...to the whole world.

It is my wish that the goodwill exhibited on Christmas is done a little more then one day a year on a global scale.
I am in total agreement with Duckster regarding the Materialism and I think Jesus Christ, if he were here at this moment speaking, rather then destroy the holiday, would rather, turn it into something positive.

Its true, that folklore, and fables, with additional enhancements go with the territory of holiday and tradition...

But all in all, indeed Skepticoverlords simple close rings true the message of Jesus Christ, The Almighty God, and the sentiments of all Good people the world wide.

Perhaps we can find a common bond. That being the brotherhood of man with peace and goodwill towards all mankind. This is the message of Christmas and the Universal message for all mankind, regardless of Holiday.

Group hug


[edit on 23-12-2007 by HIFIGUY]



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by forestlady
 


Yes because families enjoy celebrating Christmas without their atheist or agnostic member right?

I am agnostic and I celebrate Christmas because I enjoy being with my family. So what you are saying is non-Christians should not celebrate because they are non-Christian?



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by Equinox99
 


well said. Thats what i was trying to get at before i got bombarded by some fool on this thread. my family is all katholik (the see button doesnt work on this keyboard, replake all k's with sees where they would go ;-)
and they don't seem to kare that i'm athiest... i kelebrate the same way as everyone else, i just dont share the religous beliefs.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by W3RLIED2
 


I am of the firm belief that there are multitudes of selfless people in the world who do not bring attention to themselves in any form of belief system.

I also believe that there are many good atheists in the world and I wouldnt know them from Christians to tell you the truth.

In defense of alternate beliefs other then Christianity, I also firmly believe that the incorrect undertaking of christian education, and and its excessive posturing has created a greater reluctance amongst those that otherwise might have inquired.

Christ was the Love of God made man.

Christmas is supposed to be about reaching out, and the world loving one another.

For all of you who do not call yourself Christians, I value every everyone.
That without knowing, on any given day, that you and I could walk together and do something that would make the world a better place regardless of faith.

I accept you as you are, and I hope you accept me. All of us, like children learning as they grow up, are on a walk of discovery and trying to better ourselves and our community.

We are all children of the Universe, and with a little help from each other, we can change the world.

Peace


[edit on 23-12-2007 by HIFIGUY]



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 02:33 AM
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I accepept all who do'nt pass judjement. Color, creed, religion, it makes no difference to me. I just wish that there were more people as open and accepting as most of the people here on ATS. It just gets me going when people try to pass judgement, even though we are all men and equals. Any way i'd like to apologize again for the slight derailment between myself and Con.

Happy holidays to all of you, however you choose to celebrate!



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Let's tone down the focus on each other in this thread... okay?

Peace on earth, goodwill and all that.
'


Hey you, don't try to push your touchy feely hippy in a suit good vibes on me.

How the hell am I supposed to go beat down the grandmas at the toys'rus for a cabbage patch power ranger nintendo wii if I'm all kind hearted and peaceful.

The only way to settle all these Decemeber shenanigans is to tie christians, pagans, muslims and jews to the Festivus pole and set it on fire, using their credit card receipts from last years shopping as kindling. Ho ho ho!

Break it out the matches and gasoline, its that wonderful secular time of year.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 04:07 AM
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Surely you aren't serious Legalizer?

Is anyone here saying we need to tie folks like you to a pole and burn them?

Troy



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