Double post! Maybe if i check the latest responses i will find something disagreeable.

Turns out it wasn't hard to find something i , to say nothing of observation, could disagree with!

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I disagree with that based on this fact: the astronauts who spend any amount of time in orbit would be quickly cooked right inside their space vehicles if such energy transfer was of any significant value.

Why are you pretending that the space vehicles do not protect them from such energy flows? Why do astronauts wear space suits?

By cross checking the orbital motion of the planets and their moons in the solar system, it is possible to see if it matches with a purely gravity driven picture. And you know, it does.

Scientists calculate minute perturbation of the motion of space probes based on gravity, not on an extra magnetic force. To me, that's a clear proof that such force is negligible.

There is indeed direct pressure from solar wind and one can build a solar sail, but that's still a minor effect compared to gravity.

I would say that this is not based on facts. We don't know what gravity is, but saying it's magnetic in nature is as baseless as saying it's based on psychic power.

Originally posted by dreadphil
reply to post by squiz

---

thank you very much squiz I appreciate the clarification. I am about to watch the video you suggested.This is a very interesting subject to be sure..the way that the EU is being described almost makes me think that what used to be called the "Ether" may not be such a far off concept..sure the language has changed but the basic concept is there..Ill be keeping an eye on this thread and look around for more info on the web...great info from all...

For a start, the calculated density at the center of the Sun is about a hundred times too low to ignite a thermonuclear process. At the indicated temperature of 13,000,000 0K, protons wouldn't have enough energy to overcome their mutual repulsion. The response is to invoke quantum-mechanical tunneling. That permits fusion only when the protons approach each other head-on, which occurs only in a miniscule proportion of cases. But for as long as an interior energy source is insisted on, there is no alternative, and so the conclusion is drawn that the requisite conditions must exist "somehow."......

.....The Z-pinch effect of currents in arc-mode plasmas is extremely powerful. In the photosphere it would be strong enough to fuse nuclei. The Fraunhofer spectrum of the photosphere contains over 27,000 absorption lines that indicate the presence of 68 out of the 92 naturally occurring elements. A problem with the standard model is how heavier elements are transported from the core, where they're supposed to be created, to the surface. Another is where the elements heavier than iron come from, since they can't be produced by thermonuclear fusion. The electrical model says simply that we seen them in the photosphere because that's where they're being made. The simplest way of producing heavy nuclei in laboratories is by using electric fields to accelerate protons or other light nuclei. It's practically 1920s vacuum tube technology. The accelerated particles can be made to fuse with just about any element in the Periodic Table.

A part of the Sun's visible surface or photosphere. The conventional model applies the physics of fluid dynamics as we know it here on Earth, and explains the granulated appearance as being the tops of convection columns. The trouble with that is that at the temperatures and densities involved, the motion should be violently chaotic, not ordered and structured. The quantity that defines a critical limit beyond which orderly motion gives way to complex turbulence is known as the Reynolds Number. Under the conditions prevailing in the photosphere, it's exceeded by a factor of 100 billion. That's not a trivial discrepancy. Similarly, the Rayleigh Number, specifically devised as a criterion for the formation of convection cells, is exceeded by a factor of 100,000.

If the Sun is essentially an electrical phenomenon, as seems the case, and it is also a fairly typical star, then all stars should exhibit properties that are consistent with the Electric Sun (ES) model. Do they? Let us extrapolate the ES model and compare it to what we have observed about stars.

# The entire cosmos is permeated with plasma. In some regions (within a galaxy, within a solar system) the plasma is denser than it is in others. In some cases the plasma is visible, in some, not. But everywhere our spacecraft have gone - they have found it.

# The electrical properties of plasma vastly outweigh its mechanical (gravitational) properties.

# There is nothing mysterious about magnetic fields. They do not "get tangled up", "break", "merge", or "reconnect". They require moving charges (electric currents) in order to exist.

# The relative distances between even the most densely packed stars are vast in comparison to those stars' diameters.

# The homopolar motor - generator shape seems to be ubiquitous. Stars, pulsars, and galaxies are organized in this morphology.

# The z-pinch effect that occurs in Birkeland currents (electrical currents that flow through plasmas) is responsible for the accretion of stars, planets, and galaxies.

# It is quite possible that the solar system started out as a collinear array of "Herbig - Haro" type objects formed by a z-pinch.

# The presumption that, if an object exhibits redshift, it must be far away - is false.

# The Big Bang Theory is false. It has been defended in a most unscientific way.

# There is a lot more electrical activity out there in the cosmos than astrophysicists seem to want to admit.

# Astrophysicists and cosmologists need to take some courses in electrodynamic field theory and experimental plasma physics.

# Astrophysicists need to stop acting in a "knee-jerk" confrontational way to any new ideas, especially those involving electricity. True professionals do not engage in ad hominum attacks.

# Astrophysicists should stop dreaming up impossible imaginary entities such as black holes, neutron stars, strange matter, WIMPs, MACHOs, and MOND, when a perfectly real and well understood body of knowledge stands ready to explain all the things that "mystify" them so. For anyone who is interested in learning more about these ideas, some important web pages to take a look at are shown on the Links page that follows this one.

originally posted by Squiz

Dec. 06, 2007: Astronomers using Japan's Hinode spacecraft have discovered that the sun is bristling with powerful "X-ray jets." They spray out of the sun's surface hundreds of times a day, launching blobs of hot gas as wide as North America at a top speed of two million miles per hour.

www.nasa.gov...

The Z machine is the largest X-ray generator in the world and is designed to test materials in conditions of extreme temperature and pressure [....]

[...] When the Z machine fires, the energy from a 20-million-ampere electrical discharge vaporizes an array of thin, parallel tungsten wires, creating plasma. Simultaneously, the electrical current creates a powerful magnetic field that compresses and implodes the plasma by means of a z-pinch process. The imploding cylindrical plasma produces an X-ray pulse which can create a shock wave in a target structure.

Astronomers using the Keck I telescope in Hawaii are learning much more about a strange, thermal "hot spot" on Saturn that is located at the tip of the planet's south pole. In what the team is calling the sharpest thermal views of Saturn ever taken from the ground, the new set of infrared images suggest a warm polar vortex at Saturn's south pole -- the first to ever be discovered in the solar system. This warm polar cap is home to a distinct compact hot spot, believed to contain the highest measured temperatures on Saturn. A paper announcing the results appears in the Feb. 4th issue of "Science."

A "polar vortex" is a persistent, large-scale weather pattern, likened to a jet stream on Earth that occurs in the upper atmosphere. On Earth, the Arctic Polar Vortex is typically located over eastern North America in Canada and plunges cold artic air to the Northern Plains in the United States. Earth's Antarctic Polar Vortex, centered over Antarctica, is responsible for trapping air and creating unusual chemistry, such as the effects that create the "ozone hole." Polar vortices are found on Earth, Jupiter, Mars and Venus, and are colder than their surroundings. But new images from the W. M. Keck Observatory show the first evidence of a polar vortex at much warmer temperatures. And the warmer, compact region at the pole itself is quite unusual.

[...]

The puzzle isn't that Saturn's south pole is warm; after all, it has been exposed to 15 years of continuous sunlight, having just reached its summer Solstice in late 2002. But both the distinct boundary of a warm polar vortex some 30 degrees latitude from the southern pole and a very hot "tip" right at the pole were completely unexpected.

“If the increased southern temperatures are solely the result of seasonality, then the temperature should increase gradually with increasing latitude, but it doesn't,” added Dr. Orton. “We see that the temperature increases abruptly by several degrees near 70 degrees south and again at 87 degrees south.”

[...]

"One of the obvious questions is whether Saturn's north pole is anomalously cold and whether a cold polar vortex has been established there,” added Dr. Orton. “This is a question that can only be answered by the Cassini's CIRS experiment in the near term, as this region can not be seen from Earth using ground-based instruments."

[...]

The report states the "warm polar vortex at Saturn's south pole is the first to ever be discovered in the solar system." Keck researchers don't seem to have done their homework. Or maybe things that can't be explained get forgotten! Saturn's "warm polar vortex" is NOT "the first to ever be discovered." The Pioneer Venus Orbiter (PVO) discovered a warm "giant vortex of surprisingly complex structure and behaviour located in the middle atmosphere at the north pole of the planet, with a similar feature presumed to exist at the south pole also."*



>>The above diagram shows the main characteristics of the Venusian polar dipole. The diameter of the collar is about 5000 km and the temperature contrast between the hottest part of the chevron and the coldest part of the collar is about 45 K. Credit: F. W. Taylor. Composite image: W. Thornhill.

Just as was found in the very hot "tip" at the pole on Saturn, the polar vortex on Venus is the hottest spot in the planet's upper atmosphere!

Professor Fred Taylor of the of the University of Oxford Atmospheric, Oceanic and Planetary Physics Department wrote about the Venusian polar vortex: "the absence of viable theories which can be tested, or in this case any theory at all, leaves us uncomfortably in doubt as to our basic ability to understand even gross features of planetary atmospheric circulations."*

This situation will not be changed until the electrical nature of the universe is acknowledged and scientists studying the solar system and deep space are appropriately trained. The Venusian polar dipole is immediately recognizable to a plasma cosmologist. But plasma cosmology is a paradigm only recently recognized by the electrical engineering fraternity of the IEEE. No university on Earth presents a course in the subject. Metaphysics is preferred in cosmology over sound engineering principles.

The Electric Universe takes plasma cosmology a step further in proposing that a star is primarily an electrical phenomenon, forming a focus within a galactic "glow discharge." Planets are minor "electrodes" within a stellar discharge envelope. The electrical energy is delivered to stars and planets in the manner of a simple Faraday motor.



>>Schematic of the Faraday motor effect upon a planet (or star).

The electromotive power is deposited mostly in the upper atmosphere at mid to low latitudes and gives rise to its "super rotation." That is, the atmosphere races around the planet faster than the planet turns. It is a phenomenon observed on Venus and Titan and remains unexplained by the usual atmospheric physics, which relies mainly on solar heating. It is the cause of the phenomenal winds on the gas giant planets in the outer solar system, where solar heating is minimal. It has implications for the jet streams and weather patterns on Earth as well.

It is obvious, looking at the diagram, that there is a concentrated current flow at the planet's poles. Plasma cosmologists explain that electric current is transferred over vast distances in space by cosmic current filaments. And the filaments tend to organize into "twisted pairs" according to the Biot-Savart force law. It is known as the principle of "doubleness" in current-conducting plasmas. It is intuitively pleasing to see that Nature uses this (well-known to electrical engineers) twisted pair arrangement of conductors to minimize losses. Such filament pairs are called "Birkeland currents."

So we should expect to see evidence of the twisted pair configuration at both poles of Venus, if the input current is sufficiently strong and this model is correct. And that is precisely what was discovered at the north pole of Venus. The two hot spots are the footprints of cosmic Birkeland currents. The Venusian polar dipole shows the precise configuration and motion of Birkeland current pairs in plasma discharge experiments. That includes a surrounding spiral vortex.

The enhanced infrared emission from the polar dipole is due to the dissipation of electrical energy in the upper atmosphere of Venus. The polar dipole has a variable rotation rate and it varies the position of its axis of rotation with respect to that of the planet. It was observed to move 500 km from the Venusian pole in less than a day and return just as quickly. The variable nature of the electrical input to Venus via the Sun and the snaking about of the Birkeland currents explain both these characteristics.

Of particular interest are the linear filaments sometimes seen connecting the opposite sides of the hot spots. Taylor writes: "It is virtually impossible, even with complete license, to begin to speculate in any detail as to what mechanism could give rise to such a curious effect." The answer, in the Electric Universe model is simple. They are a feature seen in simulations of the behavior between two interacting Birkeland current filaments where plasma becomes trapped in the elliptical core between them.

[...]

Returning to Saturn's polar very hot "tip", it should be found on closer inspection to exhibit a similar structure to the Venusian polar dipole. Its compactness is due to the electromagnetic pinch effect where it enters Saturn's atmosphere. The hot spot's behavior should be variable like that on Venus and correlated with the appearance of Saturn's ring spokes, which are a visible manifestation of a heightened equatorial discharge in that part of Saturn's Faraday motor circuit. The Electric Universe also predicts, experimentum crucis, that BOTH poles should be hot, not one hot and the other cold.

[...]

Saturn's chilly north pole boasts a hot spot of compressed air, a surprising discovery that could shed light on other planets within our own solar system and beyond, researchers said on Thursday.

Scientists already knew about a hot spot at Saturn's sunny south pole but data from the Cassini spacecraft now shows that the winter pole drenched in darkness also has a hot spot, said Nick Teanby, a planetary scientist, who worked on the study.

"With this Cassini mission we can also see the winter pole, which we are not able to see from Earth because of the tilt of the planet," said Teanby of the University of Oxford. "We didn't expect it to have a hot spot at the north."

The hot spot is essentially a small, narrow region hotter than the gas surrounding it, the international team reported in the journal Science.

[...]

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I disagree with that based on this fact: the astronauts who spend any amount of time in orbit would be quickly cooked right inside their space vehicles if such energy transfer was of any significant value.

Why are you pretending that the space vehicles do not protect them from such energy flows? Why do astronauts wear space suits?

www.astronautix.com...

By cross checking the orbital motion of the planets and their moons in the solar system, it is possible to see if it matches with a purely gravity driven picture. And you know, it does.

That depends entirely on what has been presumed to be effects of such a gravitational force. Since when does a theories predictive powers alone serve as proof that the universe really works in a certain way?

Scientists calculate minute perturbation of the motion of space probes based on gravity, not on an extra magnetic force. To me, that's a clear proof that such force is negligible.

And when they can make the General theory of relativity work on galactic or local cluster scale i will start taking them seriously. Our ability to predict local effects should not be taken as evidence that our theories are any good beyond and that's been proven with the implied absence of 95% of the universes mass under our current 'understanding' of physics. Until we are confident about 95% of the mass i suggest we hold up on the fanfare.

There is indeed direct pressure from solar wind and one can build a solar sail, but that's still a minor effect compared to gravity.

Of the four supposed fundamental forces gravity is by far the weakest but yet we are supposed to believe that it is determines what happens in this universe?

Why are we supposed to believe that gravity is anything other than the effects of electromagnetic interaction?