Pasadena police say Horn shot 2 men in the back - More on the 'Hero'

Originally posted by thedigirati
Mr. Horn saw the individuals leaving the home and knew they were not the property owners, then when confronting them, they entered his yard (this is where his defense comes in) had they just left and not entered onto his property, it would have been murder, but they did not, thats why he IS allowed to claim self defense ( who, in their right mind, would advance on a man with a large gun [shotgun] after robbing a home anyways?)

I haven't read the full thread, but has it been established where his neighbor's house actually is? I mean, if it is across the street, then the robbers intentionally entered his yard. But if it is alongside, then these guys may have just been cutting across his yard to get to the street. If they were shot in the back, that would seem to make the most sense.

I think the only thing that can help this man's case is that the thieves crossed into his yard. The castle law might be applicable in that case otherwise much of the law isn't going to help him. The castle law here states one doesn't have to retreat but in one's house, car or business.

It might bear on how the lawyers work the yard part or try to spin the neighbor asked him to watch the property.

The more I look at this the more I think this man made a rather large mistake in his thought process.

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe


The homes were side by side and they came out of the front porch window, they could have went to the other side of the house but instead approached Mr. Horns home. I do not know for sure if they saw him before they entered onto his property or not, but this may be the very reason he left his house in the first place. ( a lot of If's" and "Maybe"s" have been rampant in this thread so I'll put in my own )
It may very well be that they were going to rob Mr. Horns Home next, which is why they went on to his property in the first place.....

Just saying............

reply to post by thedigirati

I bet that is a point that will be brought up in his defense concerning his thinking and the events. One thing that I am unsure of and will try to research is the point that the Texas code mentions night time during property crimes. Will the day light hours come into play unless it all get turned into self defense as you allude.

To me this guy is no hero. A hero would be say someone who saved a baby's life, or rescued someone from a burning building, etc.

Charges? Negligent homicide. At least a long probation. Take this character's guns away!

I agree the hero tag applied to him is a bit overboard. Some will say he did a good thing for his community and others that his is a criminal like the men he shot. Frustration and emotions obviously got heaped on this story when it hit the news and is shown by the community protest/support.

I know it has made me think about how I would react in a similar situation. I am one of those persons who live in a rural area and safety and security is up to myself and neighbors.

It seems obvious that there are many people who are tired of a justice system that doesn't seem to solve much of the situation. In reality it most likely has more to do with the economics of life and what a person does with their own life and how it affects to others.

This is an interesting case in terms of how they could actually prosecute the defendant with out undermining the spirit of the law.

There is no law that states that a citizen has to stand by and witness a crime

There is no law that states a citizen cannot take action to prevent a crime

The laws state that a citizen cannot commit a greater crime to prevent a lesser crime. You cannot kill someone to prevent them from littering

a citizen while not obligated can be reasonably expected to defend against crime when a police officer is not available or incapable of defending the citizen.

The defense attorney will try their case to show that the police were unable to perform their expected role of preventing a crime.

This can prove to be very embarrassing to the police department and the responding officer. It could also help establish the need for the Texas "castle law"

The citizen has every right to expect the police to defend against crime.

However when the police fail to prevent a crime,even with a good excuse, the citizen is placed in jeopardy.

The jeopardy aspect if properly applied to the case and explained to the jury, will grant a certain amount of lenience toward any alleged crimes committed by the citizen.

Regardless of the verdict, the police department will look bad. If this is tried during an election year I strongly expect the case to be dismissed, or at worse a probationary period to be established

What bothers me the most about this whole case is the people who give the criminals the benefit of th doubt. "Well what if they were on meth!? What if they were just crossing his yard to get to the street? What if they were actually great guys that were blackmailed into doing this!?" I say we give the innocent citizen the benefit of the doubt instead of the men he caught burglarizing a house and then entering onto his property. And to top it off, these burglars weren't even in the country legally! What if these men were armed. What if there were people in the neighbors house that these men had beaten or killed? What if they were headed into his house because they saw him witness the crime, or just because they wanted to burglarize his home? There was absolutely no way for Horne to know, at the time, that none of these things were true. THESE are the things that we need to consider, and stop catering to the criminals.

The guys he shot were illegal aliens and at least one of them had been in jail for drug trafficking, 6 year sentence I think.

They came here to commit crime and steal from US citizens and probably hurt them if necessary too. In my opinion it will be almost impossible to find a jury in Texas who would convict this guy, Texans have little compassion for criminals, and a lot of compassion for people who try to stop them.

Can there be any doubt that that Mr.Horn did a public service when he shot them. It's a pity that our gain will likely be his loss.

One thing we should all be able to agree on is that the chaos down on the southern border is the real cause of this mess. It's insane to assume that the US can continue to allow millions of illegal immigrants to enter the country without limit. Evidently it is now almost impossible to find male residents of villages in Northern Mexico who are under the age of 60.

[edit on 9-12-2007 by Retseh]

Originally posted by pc is here
To me this guy is no hero. A hero would be say someone who saved a baby's life, or rescued someone from a burning building, etc.

Charges? Negligent homicide. At least a long probation. Take this character's guns away!

You don't know that... Let’s say these two "misguided thoughtful criminals" did get away with their crime. They go back and tell their "peeps" how good the pickings are in that neighborhood and a whole slew of the "misguided thoughtful criminals" come back and rape, pillage and murder?

You can have comfort in telling yourself this guy wasn't a hero but he was. I doubt the "misguided thoughtful criminal element" will be visiting that neighborhood any time soon. In that this guy is a hero as displayed by his community members. When the Black Panther pulpit pimps showed up and got run out of town we know where that community stands and who they think the hero is.

I really think this is the whole point. His community supports him and the arm chair quarter backing by those that think these perps should have been spared the death penalty is really misguided anti gun pro liberalism at best.

Again, I am glad they are dead and they will not have a chance to hurt anyone else.

This community does think he is a hero as displayed by the following video. I doubt that those here that disagree with what these people think will find much sympathy in this neighborhood. You may find what you are looking for at a black panther party though....

www.youtube.com...

(Edited to add video link)





[edit on 9-12-2007 by Perplexed]

[edit on 9-12-2007 by Perplexed]

reply to post by _Phoenix_


The guy obviously wanted an excuse to commit murder.

Anyone who thinks he did the right thing, please tell me since when does a few stolen home furnishings = taking someone's life?

Any stolen property can be easily replaced, but I guess this guy thinks his neighbor's TV set is worth more than two human lives.

reply to post by Perplexed


The term "hero" has been over-used and lost its meaning. This guy was no "hero," he's a murderer. Exactly who's life did he save? Did he risk his life? What kind of physical struggle was he in that no ordinary person could have escaped from?


No, he was a coward that had an itchy trigger finger who wanted an excuse to shoot someone ever since he bought that gun.

Your scenario with the two individuals running to their friends and telling them that the neighborhood is ready for pillaging is preposterous. You just created a "what if" argument in your head and now use it as fact.

Well here's my "what if" - What if the two individuals stole what they did, the home owner reported the robbery and the insurance company replaced their stolen property, meanwhile the two individuals were later caught and sentenced to prison where they spend a few years and are rehabilitated back into society?

[edit on 9-12-2007 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by DJMessiah
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

The guy obviously wanted an excuse to commit murder.

Anyone who thinks he did the right thing, please tell me since when does a few stolen home furnishings = taking someone's life?

Any stolen property can be easily replaced, but I guess this guy thinks his neighbor's TV set is worth more than two human lives.

Once again you miss the point of the exercise... Today we steal a TV tomorrow we steal a life... This is the problem. You let them go and they come back bolder and more ruthless than they did before because they got away the first time.

What’s to say these guys don't come back the next day and rape and murder some 13 year old in the same neighborhood? What would your response be to that? I would really like an answer to all who think these guys didn't deserve this. I don't expect one but I would like to hear what your excuse would be for the family of the 13 year old....

At least one of these perps had a prior criminal record so they weren’t as pure as the driven show as some here may think. I think it’s a pitiful state of mind to think one can expect to steal anything and get away with it. You must pay for the things you want in this life. They paid the ultimate price for the possessions they coveted. It could have been much, much worse.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
reply to post by Perplexed

 

The term "hero" has been over-used and lost its meaning. This guy was no "hero," he's a murderer. Exactly who's life did he save? Did he risk his life? What kind of physical struggle was he in that no ordinary person could have escaped from?


No, he was a coward that had an itchy trigger finger who wanted an excuse to shoot someone ever since he bought that gun.

Your scenario with the two individuals running to their friends and telling them that the neighborhood is ready for pillaging is preposterous. You just created a "what if" argument in your head and now use it as fact.

Well here's my "what if" - What if the two individuals stole what they did, the home owner reported the robbery and the insurance company replaced their stolen property, meanwhile the two individuals were later caught and sentenced to prison where they spend a few years and are rehabilitated back into society?

[edit on 9-12-2007 by DJMessiah]

And ther in lies the rub. We will never know the "what ifs" and I say thankfully so. I am glad they are dead.

But let’s take a look at your what if and compare it to mine shall we? You say rehabilitation? One was already locked up for 6 years. He had his chance.

My scenario is more probable than yours at this point. They didn't want rehabilitation. They wanted it the easy way, they proved it time and again and they paid the ultimate price for the goods they sought. At least one proved it by spending time in prison and not conforming to society’s rules of conduct upon release. I don't know much about the other one but guilt by association is enough for me at this point.

If they would have gotten away with it the chances are very high that their crimes would have escalated to something more dastardly and just because you are far removed from the proximity of the crime you think you can call this guy a murderer? So be it... You know what they say about opinions...

Again, I am happy they are dead and this guy is a hero for having the courage to do what he did. My hat is off to him and I would gladly share my time with him as a friend.

The Thieves were Illegals.
They had just commited Multiple Crimes on a Citizen's Private Property.
They saw a guy with a friggin' gun Yelling at them whilst holding a bag o' loot... yet still tried to run.
They were on Private property on which they were NOT Welcome.

Tough Luck for the TRUE Lawbreakers.

Maybe we should just wish the NEXT batch of Illegals, further breaking the law, "better luck next time"?

Originally posted by DJMessiah

Any stolen property can be easily replaced, but I guess this guy thinks his neighbor's TV set is worth more than two human lives.

Incorrect here...totally. I have stated so to Defcon 5 in another post on this topic here on alternative news.

I am a nuclear fueler. I work with radiated and contaminated components and lifting very heavy loads..up to 300 tons.
I know people who are farmers. Farming is a very hazardous and danger fraught occupation. How about firefighters..policemen. Hi Voltage linemen.

Tractor trailers operators. Lots of folks out here work in inherently dangerous/hazardous occupatios.

Do not make such statements about property easily replaced unless you take the same "risks" as other people. IF you do so as you state, you are wont to make these people and thier risks expendable and disposable for your false sentiments.

Many Americans take extreme risks many times a year in their occupations. Do not dismiss them or thier risks. If you do such you engage in politics..also known by the name ..whoredom. Pardon the crudity but that is what it is.

A jury of working people surely know what risks are taken in the daily walk of their lives and the desire to own private property.

Their labor and risks taken are at law and law cases on the books ...private property. Do not attempt by a slight of hand to dismiss them with such flippant remarks about private property being easily replaced. You dont know that. You will make thier lives less valuable..the very thing you are complaining about in your post...the value of life...you in fact are doing yourself.

Just as is the case with Defcon5 you are wont to dismiss totally the consideration of the "risk" taken by ordinary people to earn their private property. By and by with such lack of consideration ...private property soon becomes public property under your lack. This is what our whorish politics has become in many citys. Freebee day!!

You and others should clearly know better than what you are posting here.
To those of us who in fact do know...your statement doesnt make good nonsense. We will call you on this ..not good nonsense.

Thanks,
Orangetom

[edit on 9-12-2007 by orangetom1999]

Originally posted by Perplexed
Again, I am glad they are dead and they will not have a chance to hurt anyone else.

I didn't think they had hurt anyone!

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Well here's my "what if" - What if the two individuals stole what they did, the home owner reported the robbery and the insurance company replaced their stolen property, meanwhile the two individuals were later caught and sentenced to prison where they spend a few years and are rehabilitated back into society?

Rehabilitated back into society? Did you read anything in this thread before you posted?

Both were illegal immigrants from Colombia, authorities said. Torres had been deported to Colombia in 1999 after serving time for possession with intent to distribute coc aine. Both were also using fake identification cards and aliases, and their backgrounds are now being scrutinized by federal authorities to determine if they were part of a Colombian fake ID and burglary ring, authorities said.

www.chron.com...

The only way these guys were going to stop is if they were either locked up for the rest of their lives or killed.

Originally posted by zerotime
The only way these guys were going to stop is if they were either locked up for the rest of their lives or killed.

Of course Mr Horn knew what kind of men they were before he murdered them right?

I only say he murderd them because before he had even left his house he had said he was going to kill them

They guys were not going to be offered any form of justice whatsoever.

To top it all off the guys were shot in the back (allegedly).

Mr Horn must have been pertrified when confronted by two men charging at him backwards!

The gun-totting community are more than happy to cite the laws that allow them to bear arms and murder people because they are criminals.

I ask you, when/if the current laws change and you are no longer entitled to bear arms, will you put them down? Will you remove them from your homes?

[edit on 9/12/2007 by skibtz]

I wonder why those poor souls were stealin anyway, they could've just gone down and signed up for a fat welfare check, food stamps, medical benefits and prescriptions and we would probably thrown in housing for them and as many of their kin as can get across the border. We're working real hard to get that bill passed to give them access to our social security money too.

Or....

Maybe they were no good thieving low down snakelike scum suckers and deserved every pellet they got.

Daylight thieves are either bold or desperate, either way is dangerous.

It would be unfortunate if they spoke no english and didn't understand his command not to move, or misunderstood the meaning of looking down the dark hole of a 12 gauge barrel, but I suspect they did. And if not I guess they should not have turned to thievery in a foreign land.

[edit on 9-12-2007 by Galactic Overlord Stimpy]