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Pasadena police say Horn shot 2 men in the back - More on the 'Hero'

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posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 05:44 AM
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Instead of ranting it would be better if people gave their sentence.

Manslaughter? Premeditated Murder? Self defense? attenuating circumstances?
How many years in jail? Death penalty? Probation? Parole?




posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 06:09 AM
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Because of the lack of clarity on this case, I cannot defend for or against this man. It did sound to me on the phone recording that he was indeed ready to shoot these guys without the need for self defense. In which case.. he will do time for pre-meditated murder. All I can say is, if a bunch of guys with crowbars broke into my neighbors house and I saw them, you better believe I'm already running out there with my AR-15 charged and ready to rock. Shooting however, would be a last line of defense. I think a warning shot would have easily diffused this situation, no killing was necessary. Yet it makes you wonder.. if this happened 50 years ago.. this wouldn't even be an argument.. it would be a couple burglars dead, better world. I'm eager to see how this case develops.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 06:25 AM
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reply to post by djcloudy
 


You NEVER fire warning shots.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 06:33 AM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
Yes. I work hard for what I have, and if some lowlife scumbag wanted to steal for instance my overpriced flat panel TV, he would pay with his life


Oh please. Such bravado.


You guys have one of the most evil, corrupt, non-elected governments that has ever existed.

A government that is stealing from you every second of every day and yet you do nothing.

Stop embarrassing yourself with the rhetoric, engage your brain, move your legs and make a difference.

Go get the real criminals in your society - your government.

p.s. I actively disrupt my government when I disagree with them over here so don't go bleating about 'what do you do?' and 'the UK suck as well'

I know and I act accordingly.


What do you do?!!!!

[edit on 10/12/2007 by skibtz]

[edit on 10/12/2007 by skibtz]



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by skibtz


Oh please. Such bravado.


Blah, blah blah.


You guys have one of the most evil, corrupt, non-elected governments that has ever existed.


Coming from someone who lives in a nation where they have a fossilized queen, restrictions on personal liberty, and confiscatory tax rates, you are the last person who should be speaking on the topic.


A government that is stealing from you every second of every day and yet you do nothing.


See aforementioned tax rates.



Go get the real criminals in your society - your government.


See aforementioned queen.


p.s. I actively disrupt my government when I disagree with them over here so don't go bleating about 'what do you do?' and 'the UK suck as well
'

You're awfully arrogant in assuming your government cares what you think.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 06:57 AM
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Skibtz is a sane person in an insane world.

There's no property worth killing over.

These two guys were making off with a few hundred dollars of stuff, so they deserve to die? Just let em go.

What if it wasn't 2 guys, what if it was 2 kids stealing? 2 women? 2 unemployed soldiers who need money to eat? Your brother or your husband? WTF man. Come on these are human lives. Mr Horn has seen too many westerns and fancied himself as a hero. Gutless wonder and a coward.
The real criminals are the people who steal from you every day and they wear suits and wield pens. Those are the guys sucking your life blood away and stealing your honest dollars from your .05% chance of fatality job, working man. Don't you want to shoot them up too? Or is that an ok crime.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 06:58 AM
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Mr. dead! I applaud you sir. you just said the same thing i've been trying to say for the last 10 pages at the other thread.


I got you a star.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
don't go bleating about 'what do you do?' and 'the UK suck as well


How predictable.

You have done exactly what I said you would do.

We are talking about you and your country.

If you like you can start another thread about the UK but stick to the job here fella.

You guys are all the same - stick a gun in your hand and you think you are Rambo. You pick on the weakest of the weak and avoid the big boys - your government.

Stop your mouthing off and get pro-active in removing the real enemy in your country.

Once you do that maybe the rest of the world can start to heal itself from your meddling attrocities.

Now try replying without straying or mentioning the irrelevant.

As I said the UK sucks. yada yada yada

[edit on 10/12/2007 by skibtz]

[edit on 10/12/2007 by skibtz]



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by MrDead
Skibtz is a sane person in an insane world.

There's no property worth killing over.


Yes, there is. As was previously mentioned, some property has sentimental value, and I'd be willing to end someones life who thought they could simply walk off with it.


These two guys were making off with a few hundred dollars of stuff, so they deserve to die? Just let em go.


If only more people did what Mr. Horn did, it may set an example and reduce crime.


What if it wasn't 2 guys, what if it was 2 kids stealing? 2 women? 2 unemployed soldiers who need money to eat?


It doesnt matter who it was. Would you also refrain from ending the life of 2 women, 2 kids, or 2 unemployed soldiers if they were attempting to injure you or your loved ones?



WTF man. Come on these are human lives.


The lives of pathetic criminals mean nothing to me. They paid for their actions , and there is no one to blame but them. If they hadnt committed a crime, they would still be alive today.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 07:03 AM
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reply to post by skibtz
 


And predictably, you avoided the rebuttal. You shouldnt be throwing stones when you yourself live in a glass house.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 07:12 AM
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When I first heard the story, I was "Hell yeah! That man is a hero!" but once I listened to the 9/11 tape, I changed my mind. He did not give them a warning (as far as you can hear on the tape), no "Don't move or your dead." All he did was rush out of the house, and shot them without a thought, yelling "You're dead!" before doing it. He straight out murdered these men, all over a "bag of loot."



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 07:12 AM
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reply to post by slackerwire
 


Yawn

Yet more avoidance.

Get on with it.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by skibtz
Yawn

Yet more avoidance.

Get on with it.



skibtz. not all americans are that way. I know what you are saying and I agree with you. So we aren't all that way. the guy did it and he's a killer. I said I wasn't going to post around here anymore, but everytime I read these posts the more I see how humanity doesnt want to change.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 07:22 AM
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I've been reading the various replies and comments about this article, and I am moved to throw in my own 2 cents. The do gooders that whine about, how these 2 guys should be still alive, I have this to say. They were first illegal aliens, so right there they are felons breaking into out country, second they had both prior convictions and had been deported, and third were in the process of committing multiple burgularies.

These were not good people and should not be a burden on the tax payers of this country. So now the problem is eliminated and that neighborhood is safer since criminals will think twice before targeting anymore homes there.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by djcloudy
 


You NEVER fire warning shots.



I think it would have been a better choice than shooting them down right off the get go. He could have at "least" said "stop or I'll use deadly force" and saved his ass. The police would have heard it on the phone and he wouldn't be in so much trouble right now. Sounded to me like he had an itchy trigger finger.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by jedimiller
 


Hi jedimiller

I apologise if I gave the impression that all Americans are bad. That was not my intention. I was referring to the gun-totting, criminal-murdering populace that kill small fry and let the big fish off of the hook.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by skibtz
I was referring to the gun-totting, criminal-murdering populace that kill small fry and let the big fish off of the hook.


Oh that's ok, I know it wasn't mean in a bad way. I for one wouldn't be found killing an animal or a human. unless I was being threatened with my life.

And I want everyone to know that I will NEVER carry a concealed weapon. Weapons of any kind are uncivilized.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by jedimiller
And I want everyone to know that I will NEVER carry a concealed weapon. Weapons of any kind are uncivilized.


That's for you to decide and your right. But a person doesn't need a concealed weapon to be armed with a weapon and use it. There is also carry "in plain sight" or "on or about a person".

In this case the weapon was not concealed.

[edit on 12/10/2007 by roadgravel]



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 08:12 AM
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Let's review the facts:
-Illegal immigrants
- Previously deported and back again
- CONVICTED of possession and distribution of coc aine
- Fake IDs
- Part of fake ID ring
- Part of burglary ring

It doesn't sound like this was a one-time thing. In my opinion society is better off with people like that dead. The same thing would have happened after they got deported a few more times, put in jail a few more times, etc. Or you can skip the middleman and just get rid of them now. I think a lot more harm would have come to a lot more people if they had been let go. Obviously that plain-clothes police officer wasn't going to do much.

Also why does the article's title say that he shot them in the back, when the article says there is no evidence of that and the wounds were in the torso and left arm?


[edit on 12/10/2007 by Yarcofin]



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by Yarcofin
 

I would like to more details about the arrival of the officer. Some say he was in fear because of Mr. Horn but I wonder if he could have controlled the situation.

He is able to arrive before uniformed officers. I suppose he alone was in the area. The fact that it is stated "he was parked in front of the house" makes me wonder how long he was there.

May be a bit of covering up here or as someone speculated earlier that he was going to let the situation proceed to whatever end.

edit: sp

[edit on 12/10/2007 by roadgravel]



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