Muhammad - Prophet or Profiteer of God?

Originally posted by kangjia57
Reply to BigJoeNYC

Muhammad - The father of Terrorism

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)-The Father of Peace

Killing someone for their sexual preference is not peace. Choice or not.

And from what I know, Muhammad himself merely condemned homosexuality, but didn't prescribe a punishment for it.

Compared to Christianity and Judaism, which explicitly say to kill them, though most Christians and especially Jews don't take that literally anymore, as Jews realize that it's merely a health tip and the way we live today is vastly different from the past; Jews understand the old testament better than Christians, thats their holy book. The only Jews that seem to have a problem with it to the violent extent are those Haredi Jews who are relatively few in number...

And they did studies in Sweden I believe that homosexuals react to pheromones of the same sex rather than the opposite sex in heterosexuals.

And just so you know, you can call any belief system a belief of "peace"...peace is usually the end result I might add, and those people will commit tons of violent to achieve that peace, such as murdering all who oppose them, in an ends justify the means way of thinking. Hitler is a good example.

It's a twisted way of thinking...

And what do you expect me to do, being a pagan and having gay friends in the extent of your "Islamic" advance? Be sure I'll fight!

Reply to 27jd

what if your imam told you they have discovered that Muhammed commanded all but a few men (for breeding purposes) to become gay? Would you do Allah's will then?

I will reject the Imam.The hadiths have been written clearly of what Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) stated.

Kacen...that was all over the place and nowhere at the same time. I'm not mad I'm AMAZED!

Reply to kacen

And from what I know, Muhammad himself merely condemned homosexuality, but didn't prescribe a punishment for it.

If the punishment for adultery is stoning to death alive! Than what do you think the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) would have said about homosexuality?

Originally posted by kangjia57
I will reject the Imam.The hadiths have been written clearly of what Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) stated.

Ah, there's the sidestep. In this scenario my friend, a NEW hadith was discovered that made it mandatory YOU become a homosexual, and it was PROVEN to be the will of Allah, EVERY imam stated that to be true...would you do Allah's will and become a homosexual if it was every good muslims duty?

Reply to 27jd

Ah, there's the sidestep. In this scenario my friend, a NEW hadith was discovered that made it mandatory YOU become a homosexual, and it was PROVEN to be the will of Allah, EVERY imam stated that to be true...would you do Allah's will and become a homosexual if it was every good muslims duty?

A hadith is a saying of Muhammad or a report about something he did.
The ones who recorded hadiths only are the ones who discovered it.

If you wana try homosexuality,than why dont you give it a go?i am sure you will enjoy it matey!

Originally posted by 27jd
Who wants to bet my above question is sidestepped or dodged completely by our religious friends?

I hope it doesn't get dodged, I'd like to hear some replies on that matter.

I've got to agree with you though, It will be tip toed around never to be answered.

Originally posted by 27jd
That's easy for any of us to say being straight. WE don't have to suppress anything.

Are you kidding me? I've got to suppress my urge to go and woo every single hot babe I see. There'd be far too much trouble in store for me if I didn't keep my libido in check

I don't know how to comment on your hypothetical situation though, because so far as I can tell, the requirement to not engage in homosexuality in Islam is because it doesn't lead to children -- remember how Noah was told to go forth, be fruitful and multiply? It goes back to that.

I stand by the rest of my statement regarding our mental abilities as well as what you posted in regards to it. This part I'd like to highlight though:

Originally posted by 27jd
No, we were given that prowess in order to progress and spread the seed of man throughout the universe.

I think there's a verse somewhere that can confirm this... can't recall... it's late... I'm tired...

Maybe babloyi knows what I'm talking about here. Really, on this site I submit that he's got more knowledge on Islam than I do. My level is around that of bodrul's I think. Still learning, everyday.

Edit: Grammar

[edit on 7-12-2007 by Beachcoma]

Reply to Chemicalbrother

I hope it doesn't get dodged, I'd like to hear some replies on that matter.

I've got to agree with you though, It will be tip toed around never to be answered.

Dont worry!it wont get tiptoed and will be answered matey!!

Originally posted by kangjia57
A hadith is a saying of Muhammad or a report about something he did.
The ones who recorded hadiths only are the ones who discovered it.

You're not very good at sidestepping, you make it WAY to obvious. LET'S IMAGINE FOR A MOMENT A HADITH WAS LOST LONG AGO, AND THEN JUST RECENTLY FOUND, WRITTEN BY THE ONES WHO RECORDED THE OTHERS. THE LAST HADITH.

Would you become homosexual in order to be a good muslim?

This is a YES or NO question.

If you wana try homosexuality,than why dont you give it a go?i am sure you will enjoy it matey!

I was born straight, I LOVE women, ALOT. So, no need for me to try it, I never had a choice about my sexuality, JUST LIKE GAYS DON'T.

Besides, we all know pirates were pretty gay, and I'm not the one who talks like a pirate, matey....argggghh!

reply to post by kangjia57


Nice one, every credit to ya matey.



Is this a one liner?

Reply to beachcoma

Still learning, everyday.

Yup same here!But yeh would like babloyi back,definelty puts up a good discussion!!

27jd, hypothetical questions really are not a good idea, won't lead to anything, don't bother, okay?

They don't work in these situations in my experience.

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Are you kidding me? I've got to suppress my urge to go and woo every single hot babe I see. There'd be far too much trouble in store for me if I didn't keep my libido in check

Exactly. When did you make the choice to be attracted to hot babes over men? When has the "devil" tempted you and you had a thought that a dude's broad shoulders were kinda attractive to you? If you're like me, NEVER. Our sexuality is biological, not spiritual.

I don't know how to comment on your hypothetical situation though, because so far as I can tell, the requirement to not engage in homosexuality in Islam is because it doesn't lead to children -- remember how Noah was told to go forth, be fruitful and multiply? It goes back to that.

Dunno if you missed it, but my hypathetical stated that only the religious elite were permitted to breed with women, not average followers. We'll say to keep pure bloodlines or something...again, yes or no question.




[edit on 7-12-2007 by 27jd]

Originally posted by Kacen
27jd, hypothetical questions really are not a good idea, won't lead to anything, don't bother, okay?

No, I will bother. I want them to reflect on just how devoted they are to their relgion. It wasn't directed at you so please let me do my thing, k?

YES or NO question guys.



[edit on 7-12-2007 by 27jd]

Reply to 27jd

You're not very good at sidestepping, you make it WAY to obvious. LET'S IMAGINE FOR A MOMENT A HADITH WAS LOST LONG AGO, AND THEN JUST RECENTLY FOUND, WRITTEN BY THE ONES WHO RECORDED THE OTHERS. THE LAST HADITH.

Would you become homosexual in order to be a good muslim?

This is a YES or NO question.

Matey I am not here to sidestep or tiptoe or play musical chairs!

NO I WONT BECOME A HOMOSEXUAL!
HADITHS HAVE ALREADY BEEN RECORDED THERES NOTHING TO DISCOVER!
ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISCOVER A HIDDEN HADITH THAT HAS JUST BEEN RECENTLY FOUND!

And if something like that does happen, than I will totally deny it and Muslims will regard that person to make up BS and trying to innovate in the religion matey!!

reply to 27jd

ALLAH didnt make Adam and steve!He made Adam and EVE matey!!

Originally posted by kangjia57
And if something like that does happen, than I will totally deny it and Muslims will regard that person to make up BS and trying to innovate in the religion matey!!

K, thanks. I'll take that as a NO.

If it were true and an ancient Hadith was discovered, and authenitcated by ALL muslim scholars, that a good muslim must become homosexual in order to prove his devotion to Allah, to go against his urges for women and be with a man in order to prove his sacrifice, kangjia will then decide that the hadith is BS. Thus his devotion to Muhammed and Allah are purely on the condition he doesn't have to do something that is against his natural urges to be a good muslim.

Thanks again.

reply to post by 27jd


"When has the "devil" tempted you and you had a thought that a dude's broad shoulders were kinda attractive to you?"

I admit. It has happened. But I shrugged it off.
What? You telling me an you've never seen another dude that you just can't help stare at because he was Adonis personified?

Anyway...

There's no point debating hypothetical situations. Seriously. Where does it end? Best stick with the facts as they are and debate that. But not now -- tomorrow. I've got to go to bed. It's almost 2.30 am and I've an exam to attend tomorrow morning.

Originally posted by Beachcoma
I admit. It has happened. But I shrugged it off.

Well, thanks for the honesty.

What? You telling me an you've never seen another dude that you just can't help stare at because he was Adonis personified?

Yeah, when I look in the mirror, lol. But no, seriously, I can honestly say I've never looked at a man and had even the slightest sexual thought. I think I am honestly hyper-hetero, but I am fully aware it is my biology, and know that the biology of gays makes them feel the way they do. Otherwise, I honestly believe there's just no way any man would choose a man over a woman, and I'm sure gays see it the other way around.

There's no point debating hypothetical situations. Seriously. Where does it end? Best stick with the facts as they are and debate that. But not now -- tomorrow. I've got to go to bed. It's almost 2.30 am and I've an exam to attend tomorrow morning.

Okay, at least it's an admitted dodge. So far we have kangjia who would NOT be a devoted muslim if meant he had to sacrifice women for Allah, and Beachcoma who has said he would suppress it for religion if he were gay, but will not answer the other way around, if he would suppress being straight if his religion demanded he be gay....guess it's easier to expect other people to do something than ourselves, eh?

[edit on 7-12-2007 by 27jd]