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Muhammad - Prophet or Profiteer of God?

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posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
Because i am a Sunni and to me Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) isnt dead,he has just left this world.


Kanjia, I don't know about you, but belief that Muhammad isn't dead isn't Sunni in origin. In fact, the only group I know of that believes Muhammad to still be alive, are the Sufis.

At the death of Muhammad, the many of the muslims were heartbroken, and susceptible to leaving the path of God, but then Abu Bakr (or maybe it was Ali, I cannot remember right now) said "Whoever worshipped Muhammad, Muhammad is dead, but whoever worships Allah, Allah cannot die", and then he quoted this verse of the Quran:


Surah 3:144
Muhammad is nothing but a messenger of Allah, Messengers of God have passed away before him; What, if he dies or is killed? Will you turn back upon your heels? And whosoever turns back upon his heels will by no means do harm to Allah, and Allah will reward the thankful.


[edit on 8-12-2007 by babloyi]




posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 09:48 AM
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Reply to geek101

More to the point, do you think Muhammad would have disobeyed God? Of course not, so i would have to conclude that that particular hadith is a load of crock.

But I get a feeling that you are tryna say that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) disobeyed God!

Because Hadith is ‘Prophet's sayings and actions’

Let me just make things clear Do you believe in the Hadith or not? Or are you tryna say that you pick and choose hadiths?

Your point won’t change the views of Sunnis, the scholars of Ahle Sunnah wal-jamaah have stated these things clearly.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 10:04 AM
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Reply to babloyi

Kanjia, I don't know about you, but belief that Muhammad isn't dead isn't Sunni in origin. In fact, the only group I know of that believes Muhammad to still be alive, are the Sufis.

Not everyone can become a Sufi, you have to reach that spiritual stage to become one! And no I am not a Sufi but would love to become one.Theres a saying that when a Sufi prays,even if an earthquake strikes,he will remain concentred in his pray without even noticing the ground shaking.

Yes you can say Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has left the world,but I rather not say ‘Death’ because its disrespectful. But to me he is still alive just left this visual world.

I follow Hanafi school of thoughts and my Sheikh who I follow for Islamic teachings is Muhammad Ilyas Attar Qadri who is a Sufi from Karachi, Pakistan is founder of a Islamic movement Dawat-e-Islami.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by kangjia57

But I get a feeling that you are tryna say that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) disobeyed God!

Because Hadith is ‘Prophet's sayings and actions’

Let me just make things clear Do you believe in the Hadith or not? Or are you tryna say that you pick and choose hadiths?

Your point won’t change the views of Sunnis, the scholars of Ahle Sunnah wal-jamaah have stated these things clearly.


How am *I* trying to say that Muhammad disobeyed God?? You are the one claiming that apparently Muhammad made his own laws!
I am saying that he would never do such a thing.

No i don't believe the hadith should be taken as laws. I believe that Gods Sunna (system) and Gods Hadith (sayings) are the only ones we should take into account when we are practising our religion.

I am not trying to change your view or the view of sunnis. And the scholars may very well have stated things clearly, but i believe God stated it even clearer when he asked you:

"what hadith will you believe in after this (Qur'an)?"



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 10:38 AM
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Reply to geek101

So if that’s the case than why do we have prophets for?

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has stated clearly what the punishment for married and unmarried adulterer is.

And why would Prophet Muhammad make his own laws? He was there to act as a guide for Muslims to follow.

You don’t follow the way Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon his) has mentioned on how to pray?

You don’t follow the way Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon his) has mentioned on how to purify yourselves before you pray?



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
So if that’s the case than why do we have prophets for?


to bring the message to mankind and to be a warner


Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has stated clearly what the punishment for married and unmarried adulterer is.


so did God. Who are you following here?


And why would Prophet Muhammad make his own laws? He was there to act as a guide for Muslims to follow.


he wouldn't. Which is why he wouldnt have contradicted GODS law about the punishment for adulterers


You don’t follow the way Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon his) has mentioned on how to pray?


no


You don’t follow the way Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon his) has mentioned on how to purify yourselves before you pray?


no, if and when i pray, i follow GODS way of doing ablution. Again, who are you following?

edit to add....you still didnt answer my question....how can the Prophets wives have been stoned DOUBLED to death?

[edit on 8-12-2007 by geek101]



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by kangjia57
 


do you realise that in all the posts you have made since i started conversing with you, you haven't mentioned God at all in the sense that you should be obeying Him?
All your posts are about how you should be obeying Muhammad.
Does that not tell you that you are doing something wrong here?
What makes you different from the Christians you mock when you say that they elevated Jesus to a god?
How is what you are doing, any different?

And you no longer have to answer my question, i shall answer it for you.
In answer to:
"how, if the punishment for adultery is stoning to death, could one of Muhammads wives have been punished double?"

your answer is clearly.....i do not listen to what God says. I listen to what i think Muhammad said.
Can anyone say 'shirk'?



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 10:55 AM
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The only way to deal with an extremist muslim is a bullet in the back of the head..(or the front).Once thats done the body should be placed in a shallow grave...before being covered over a liberal sprinkling of swine blood should be applied.lets face it people.The time for coddling these people are over.They couldnt be more blunt about there intentions for non beleavers.Shame on us for letting them get away with there actions for so long.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to geek101

After looking at what you have said.

Only one question come to my mind!Is this guy even a Muslim or not ?

There are also other sects i have seen,but nothing as bizarre as your views matey!



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by geek101

no, if and when i pray, i follow GODS way of doing ablution. Again, who are you following?
[edit on 8-12-2007 by geek101]


Wait the mate 'if and when i pray...u call urself a muslim tht cnt even fulfil his obligotory acts

and praying isnt just about the ablution is contains the Salaah and no where in the quraan does it tell you how to pray the Salaah you have to look into the Sunnah of the Prophet (Sal lal lahu alaihi Wasalam) for that and if you can show me where it says in the Qura'n how to pray, trust e i will leave the way i pray now and then follow the way the Qura'n says.

this is becuase the Qura'n is 1st n if you cnt find it in the Qura'n then you move to the Sunnah n Haf=dith so the challenge is there!!!



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
reply to geek101

After looking at what you have said.

Only one question come to my mind!Is this guy even a Muslim or not ?

There are also other sects i have seen,but nothing as bizarre as your views matey!



lol...so, because i follow Gods law, i am not a muslim....yeah, thats about what i have come to expect from people like you.
You think its bizarre that i follow the Quran?



you clearly don't have any reasonable and logic answers to my questions. Which again, i have come to expect.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 11:01 AM
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Reply to Dolza

So you created another acc juz to say that matey? Well you didn’t get anywhere matey!



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by john13
 


salat is there in the Quran, just not the way you want it to be. I have had this conversation with many a sunni before you, and trust me, i could spend all day quoting you verse, but unless i could come up with one which says to do it in the way it says in the hadith, you wouldnt take any notice.

You expect something to be there, and its not. But something is there. You're just not reading it clearly enough.

And you say that you take Quran first. How do you perform ablution?
I can almost guarantee that you dont do it the way God tells you in the Quran, but that you do it the way the "hadith" show you.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by kangjia57
 



oh, and i'm not a guy, i'm a gal




posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 11:05 AM
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Reply to geek101

LOL matey after looking at your views, sounds like you have totally lost it matey!

Whats your religion really called?

I have never heard the amount of BS like this in my whole life before!

Who is your teacher and how many of you are there?Because matey I am sure
your percentage compared to majority of Muslims is nothing.

Even the deobandis aren’t as bad as this lol!!


[edit on 8-12-2007 by kangjia57]



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
Reply to geek101

LOL matey after looking at your views, sounds like you have totally lost it matey!

Whats your religion really called?

I have never heard the amount of BS like this in my whole life before!

Who is your teacher and how many of you are there?Because matey I am sure
your percentage compared to majority of Muslims is nothing.

Even the deobandis aren’t as bad as this lol!!


[edit on 8-12-2007 by kangjia57]




do you not realise how completely ridiculous this sounds?
I follow the Qur'an. Allahs Book.
Got that so far?
And according to you, what i follow is BS.
Again:



i'll leave you to it. To you, your religion, to me, mine.
Good luck with that.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 11:15 AM
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Seriously matey i am stunned after looking at your views!

A scholar would rip you to bits but i aint one so i cant answer your bizarre questions matey.

I pray to Allah (azawajal) and thank him for making me a Muslim in first place and I thank Allah (azawajal) for making me follow right people who follow what Allah pleases.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 11:15 AM
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I dont know who you Think I am..but your wrong.this is actually only my second post ever.I tend to keep my mouth shut.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
Seriously matey i am stunned after looking at your views!

A scholar would rip you to bits but i aint one so i cant answer your bizarre questions matey.

I pray to Allah (azawajal) and thank him for making me a Muslim in first place and I thank Allah (azawajal) for making me follow right people who follow what Allah pleases.


before i leave this thread for good....could you tell me what "bizarre" and "BS" views i have?

you know what.....forget it. The reason, btw, that you can't answer my "bizarre" questions, is not because you are not a scholar, but because you simply have no answers. Admit it.
Why do you worship Muhammad instead of God?
I find that rather bizarre actually.
Why do you obey Muhammad and not God?
That too, i find quite strange.
Why do you think that someone who follows the Quran only is lacking in religion?
Are you saying Gods words are lacking?
Yes, you are.
You deserve the moniker Mohammedan. Not Muslim.


[edit on 8-12-2007 by geek101] (for spelling)

[edit on 8-12-2007 by geek101]



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 11:18 AM
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Reply to Dolza

Keep your trap shut than matey! Dont come up with BS and derail the thread matey!



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