No, I will not vaccinate my children!

Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by The Good Reverend Roger
* Everyone knows vaccinations are not 100% effective. The idea is that you reduce the number of carriers/infected people down to a bare minimum. Anyone who willfully opts out of that endangers everyone.

I guess you are not a big fan of free choice then. What your government says goes? They know the best?


[edit on 24-11-2007 by Copernicus]

You guess wrong. Earlier I said:

Originally posted by The Good Reverend Roger


Quite right. While I support his right to not vaccinate his kids, I certainly don't want his little virus factories around my kid.

So please do not presume to tell me what I believe. Thanks.

Ahem, back to said topic:

A number of vaccines, including those given to very young children, have contained thiomersal, a preservative that metabolizes into ethylmercury. It has been used in some influenza, DTP (diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis) vaccine formulations. Since 1997, use of thimerosal has been gradually diminishing in western industrialized countries after recommendations by medical authorities, but trace amounts of thimerosal remain in many vaccines and in some vaccines, thimerosal has not yet been phased out despite recommendations. Some states in the USA have enacted laws banning the use of thimerosal in childhood vaccines.

Thiomersal is very toxic by inhalation, ingestion, and in contact with skin (EC hazard symbol T+), with danger of cumulative effects. It is also very toxic to aquatic organisms, and may cause long-term adverse effects in aquatic environments (EC hazard symbol N).[5] In the body, it is metabolized or degraded to ethylmercury (C2H5Hg+) and thiosalicylate.[1]

Few studies of the toxicity of thiomersal in humans have been performed. Animal experiments suggest that thimerosal rapidly dissociates to release ethylmercury after injection, that the disposition patterns of mercury are similar to those after exposure to equivalent doses of ethylmercury chloride, and that the central nervous system and the kidneys are targets, with lack of motor coordination being a common sign. Similar signs and symptoms have been observed in accidental human poisonings. The mechanisms of toxic action are unknown.

Many parents, and some scientists and doctors, believe there is a connection between thiomersal and autism. More than 5000 U.S. families have filed claims alleging autism was caused by vaccines, most implicating thiomersal; most claims are still being adjudicated and no awards have been given.[10]

In the late 1990s, controversy over vaccines escalated in both the US and the United Kingdom when a study, published in the respected journal Lancet, by Dr. Andrew Wakefield suggested a possible link between bowel disorders, autism and the MMR vaccine, and urged further research.[1] His report garnered significant media attention, leading to a drop in the uptake of the MMR vaccine in the United Kingdom and some other countries.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Another vaccination controversy concerns smallpox. Since it has been eradicated, some suggest that the stores of smallpox virus should be destroyed. In an article on Newswise [12] both sides debate the issue: "The destruction of remaining smallpox virus stocks is an overdue step forward for public health and security that will dramatically reduce the possibility that this scourge will kill again, either by accident or design, argues Edward Hammond of The Sunshine Project, an organisation seeking international consensus against biological weapons."

"But John Agwunobi of the US Department of Health and Human Services believes that clandestine stocks almost certainly exist and that destroying the virus would be “irreversible and short sighted.” [13]

Vaccines do not guarantee complete protection from a disease. Sometimes this is because the host's immune system simply doesn't respond adequately or at all. This may be due to a lowered immunity in general (diabetes, steroid use, HIV infection) or because the host's immune system does not have a B-cell capable of generating antibodies to that antigen.

I'm 40 minutes into this video and have had to switch off. Its pseudo science is doing my head in ..... doctors pointing to alarming looking graphs that you can't actually read, selectively quoting from in depth studies, giving 30 y/o examples of doctors innoculating kids who are already sick with colds & diarhhoea ... and funnily enough the kids take a bad reaction to the vaccination.

Moral ? It's not rocket science. Only innoculate kids who are healthy and who haven't been ill the month before the innoculation is due ... which is current practice in the UK anyway.

In my own family I've seen my bro & sisters fret about their children getting vaccinated, especially the MMR vaccine. But all the kids have been fully innoculated against everything going and with no side effects whatsoever, apart from the kids getting upset as they're given the jab.

But did you notice their waiver at the start of the video ?

The producers and distributors of this video, which is only endeavouring to inform of the dangers and ineffectiveness of vaccination, do not take any responsibility for any actions by third parties which may be based on this information.

Basically if you follow their advice, don't vaccinate your child & if he/she dies of measles or is crippled by polio dont go running to them for compensation to pay your med bills.

Your call, Stompk, free country n'all. I'd say this video is alarmist hocus pocus myself. You'd be better airing your concerns with your own family doctor.

Many parents, and some scientists and doctors, believe there is a connection between thiomersal and autism.

1. The parents base this on what? Their extensive knowledge of neurochemistry?

2. "Some" scientists and doctors? How many? Who?

Originally posted by Niall197


But did you notice their waiver at the start of the video ?

The producers and distributors of this video, which is only endeavouring to inform of the dangers and ineffectiveness of vaccination, do not take any responsibility for any actions by third parties which may be based on this information.

Basically if you follow their advice, don't vaccinate your child & if he/she dies of measles or is crippled by polio dont go running to them for compensation to pay your med bills.

Exactly. Precisely.

reply to post by The Good Reverend Roger


The graphs are disputing the verifiable evidence. That's the whole point.

So your saying these people are hired actors intentionally duping the public with supposed evidence?

Typical.

I wouldn't believe everything you read or see on TV. I did EXTENSIVE research before having vaccines given to my children....here are the conclusions I came to after reading tons of information both for and against....

1. No child over the age of 4 who was given their vaccines after that age have ever developed autism. So basically wait until after they are 4.

2. A doctor MUST treat your child whether they are innoculated or not.

3. The "dead" polio vaccine also known as the Salk vaccine has NEVER caused any side effect in children and can NOT give your child polio as the virus is dead. The live polio vaccine is the one that can give your child or those around your child polio if they aren't vaccinated or their titur is no longer effective. Go with the Dead vaccine.

4. Small poxs is basically erradicated except in the deep jungles of Africa. They don't even give this vaccination anymore because there are no cases of it.

5. Never give your child a vaccination when they are sick, or had been sick within 30 days of the innoculation.

6. If you don't want your child vaccinated sign the waiver. It's your choice.

7. If you child is given even 1 vaccine and then you claim the waiver, they can and will remove your child from the school unless you can prove that you have recently converted to a religion that does not believe in medical technology. Good luck with that one!

Originally posted by stompk
reply to post by The Good Reverend Roger

 

The graphs are disputing the verifiable evidence. That's the whole point.

So your saying these people are hired actors intentionally duping the public with supposed evidence?

Typical.

You can hardly see the graphs. There is no evidence whatsoever that the graphs are from a "government source", as you claimed earlier.

I am saying that there is no evidence at all that the people on that tape are who they claim they are. I will not make medical decisions for my kids based on psuedoscience, fearmongering, or unverified claims of medical expertise.

I think what it may be is an anti-vaccination group using actors to demonstrate what they "know to be true". Extremists of all stripes do this, all the time...any "little white lie" is okay, because they are getting the "word" out.

I remembered when I had to get vaccinated two years ago at my college, I swayed away from for 3 months, until the school department checked my medical record, and told me to get it, or I'd be kick out of the school....it was mandatory, and apparently its a state law.

[edit] The vaccination I got was for "Meningococcal Diease." And I found out more information about it: badchemist.net...

I strictly recalled being perfectly normal and energetic until i got my vaccination, and then about 5-10 minutes later I felt tired, and got a little cold after that. I don't really know if there's any long term effect, I hope not.

[edit on 24-11-2007 by skyblueff0]

Originally posted by cw034


4. Small poxs is basically erradicated except in the deep jungles of Africa. They don't even give this vaccination anymore because there are no cases of it.

As far as anyone knows at all, smallpox has been eradicated 100%. There are no known cases in animals or humans, in Africa or otherwise.

Originally posted by skyblueff0
I remembered when I had to get vaccinated two years ago at my college, or I'd be kick out of the school....it was mandatory.

I strictly recalled being perfectly normal and energetic until i got my vaccination, and then about 5-10 minutes later I felt tired, and got a little cold after that. I don't really know if there's any long term effect, I hope not.

If you had a live vaccine, those are fairly normal symptoms. You just introduced a (weakened) disease into your system, after all.

"Up to 90% of the total decline in the death rate of children between 1860-1965 because of whooping cough, scarlet fever, diptheria, and measles occured before the introduction of immunisations and antibiotics."---Dr Archie Kalokerinos, M.D.

Source

The proof is out there, if one cares.

He gives no raw data, though, does he?

And let's just take a closer look at the Good Doctor, shall we?

Archie Kalokerinos MBBS PhD is an Australian physician. In 2000 he was awarded the title Greek Australian of the Century by the Melbourne-based Greek newspaper Neos Kosmos. He held controversial opinions on a number of medical issues. He was a supporter of Linus Pauling's controversial theory that many diseases result from overproduction of free radicals and can accordingly be prevented or cured by Vitamin C; this led him to treat many conditions with high intravenous doses of vitamin C. He also believed that vaccination schemes have been used for deliberate genocide (among indigenous Australians, and in spreading HIV in Africa); and that the US government systematically planned to get rid of undesirables such as criminals by encouraging people with known heart problems to be vaccinated. He is considered an authority by anti vaccinationist organisations, and is quoted as claiming that "...the unofficial policy of the World Health Organisation and the unofficial policy of the 'Save the Children's Fund' ... is one of murder and genocide." [2] In 2002 he was reported as saying that the World Health Organisation and Save the Children's Fund "put Hitler and Stalin in the shade" when it came to mass killings. [1]

en.wikipedia.org...

Hmmm...seems the Good Doctor believes that all the doctors who belong to the WHO (and who do not believe that vitamin C cures viruses) are all mass murderers.

Great source. Heh.

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[edit on 24/11/2007 by Mirthful Me]

I agree with the Good Doctor.

Originally posted by stompk
I agree with the Good Doctor.

So...Vitamin C would cure, say, Ebola Zaire?

Is that what you're saying?

I do belive in non - vaccinations at a early age. They are finding that starting the process on children to young is the issue. Maybe waiting till they have a proper immunce system that is strong and healthy around age 6. Vaccination then may be in order.

I don't know, you tell me what cures Ebola Z?

While your at it, tell me how to cure cancer.
Better yet, go ask your doctor.

I remember polio and smallpox.

I remember the iron lungs for polio patients to live in for the rest of their lives. Their heads stuck out of one end of the place they would spend the rest of their lives laying on their backs.

I remember the little children with crutches. Their legs lifeless for ever.

Oh my God..I remember smallpox. Huge horrible, pussy sores over every inch of the smallpox victims body. Those unlucky enouth to survive were left with monster looking scars.

I had the measles and the mumps. Both very uncomfortable.

The last case of smallpox in the USA was in 1949, the last case in the world in 1977 The last case of polio in the USA was in 1979.

Over a million children in the world died of measles last year.

I travel frequently to third world countries so I'm always up to date with any and all vaccinations. If I could get it I would have the smallpox vaccination

Of course it is a parents right to refuse vaccinations for their children. Just think, if enough parents do this we could one day have polio and smallpox in the USA again. You could watch your children suffer horribly and then bury them. You could be very proud of the stand you took against vacaccinations.

All these diseases are still alive and well in a laboratory. My fear is the possibility of them being used as a weapon against us.

By all means excerise your freedom of choice parents....it's your child and you have the right to allow him/her to become ill and possibly die because they didn't get vaccinated.

Dizzie

Originally posted by Here Now
I do belive in non - vaccinations at a early age. They are finding that starting the process on children to young is the issue. Maybe waiting till they have a proper immunce system that is strong and healthy around age 6. Vaccination then may be in order.

The data suggests 4, and by 6, they're in school where the risk of infection is much higher.

But yeah, anything lower than 4 is an unnecessary risk.

Originally posted by stompk
I don't know, you tell me what cures Ebola Z?

Hey, now...it was your Good Doctor that said vitamin C cured viruses, not me.