Originally posted by Mirthful Me
I'm all for personal choice and responsibility...

You don't want to have your children vaccinated, fine by me... But they need to be home schooled... No public education and if they contract anything, you are paying for any and all hospitalization, professional fees and pharmaceuticals. You think $500.00 is a lot, try a few days in a hospital.

Darwin was right.

Quite right. While I support his right to not vaccinate his kids, I certainly don't want his little virus factories around my kid.

Originally posted by stompk
Thank for the support, and the non-support. This is a debate, that needs to take place.

What is the truth. The video is full of doctors telling us how bad vaccination are for us, and how the government statistics are hidden or altered.

Scientists, and doctors, rely heavily on statistics for judging the effectiveness of treatments.

The video is full of people who claim they are doctors.

I think its the right choice. I think Americans should get out more and look at Europe. Maybe then you guys will realize what a crazy society you live in.

Fear mongering, forced vaccinations, police carrying tasers, media filling peoples head with junk... you know, when I was there for 3 weeks in Florida during x-mas, specially the "news" made me smile. Its so twisted, and the news anchors dont even act like normal people. They act like actors and talk at twice the speed of any normal person, and seem very rushed. Do they ever stop to think about what they are saying?


[edit on 24-11-2007 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by Copernicus
I think its the right choice. I think Americans should get out more and look at Europe. Maybe then you guys will realize what a crazy society you live in.

Fear mongering, forced vaccinations, police carrying tasers, media filling peoples head with junk... you know, when I was there for 3 weeks in Florida during x-mas, specially the "news" made me smile. Its so twisted, and the news anchors dont even act like normal people. They act like actors and talk at twice the speed of any normal person, and seem very rushed. Do they ever stop to think about what they are saying?


[edit on 24-11-2007 by Copernicus]

Europe isn't much better off. CCTVs everywhere, rules on what headwear schoolgirls cannot wear, hate speech laws, etc.

Same thing, different package.

You're totally correct about the "news", though.

Good discussion.

While I agree that it's onerous that the school is mandating these, I'd suggest you also discuss these with your family doctor to get his opinion.

Make him aware that you are informed on the subject and you'd like to get a 'non-bs' opinion from him. Ask if he's had his kids vaccinated and which ones he really thinks are important.

Tetanus, possibly HVBIg, and maybe smallpox might be a good idea. I'd ask him to supply you with the research circulars and other documentation an read up on how these vaccines are made. Anything that uses human tissue as the source or questionable animal tissue, is worth a very careful look and possibly avoided.

In fact, just a guess, but it might be significantly safer to get the injections from your MD who might have safer sources and who would certainly do a better job than some medical person whom you don't know just slamming shots in arms or butts in a big queue. It might be more costly - not sure.

Oh yeah - one BIG thing to avoid is the reuse of needles. I'd be VERY concerned that someone slamming shots in a school environment might make a mistake and re-use a needle. This is quite unlikely in your family doctor's office.

Any vaccine that is recombinant is probably safe, but I would decline 'flu' shots and non-specific things like that.

Good luck!




[edit on 24-11-2007 by Badge01]

Well let's see. The list of vaccinations my 6 yr old has had.

Comvox 12-26-01
Comvay 5/8/03
Hep B 9/2/05
Dtap 12/26/01
Dtap 5/08/03
Dtap 9/2/05

Hib 9/2/05

IPV 12/26/01
IPV 9/2/05

MMR 5/8/03

Vas? 5/8/03

PCV7 5/8/03
Prevnar 9/2/05



But she's still not vaccinated?? And they want to put more in them. No thanks. I'm done with it.

And I pay my taxes, so my kids will be in school, until I choose to take them out, or they find a way to kick em out, which will be over my dead body.


[edit on 24-11-2007 by stompk]

[edit on 24-11-2007 by stompk]

Originally posted by The Good Reverend Roger
Europe isn't much better off. CCTVs everywhere, rules on what headwear schoolgirls cannot wear, hate speech laws, etc.

Same thing, different package.

You're totally correct about the "news", though.

I think you must be thinking of Britain or something? We dont have any rules against head wear here in Sweden, or metal detectors at schools, or anything like that. We do have cameras in a lot of places though.

If some guy wanted to go inside a school here and blow up kids, he would have no problem doing so. But thats life - you cant expect to be completely safe from crime unless you want to live in a prison yourself.


[edit on 24-11-2007 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by stompk



But she's still not vaccinated?? And they want to put more in them. No thanks. I'm done with it.

And I pay my taxes, so my kids will be in school, until I choose to take them out, or they find a way to kick em out, which will be over my dead body.

1. Depends where you are. Would you assume that the run of vaccinations here would protect you in, say, Liberia?

2. Your taxes don't give you the right to expose my kids to danger*(, simply because you saw a video on the internet. You want to withdraw from society in one way, you are going to have to accept the fact that society will force you to withdraw in others.


* Everyone knows vaccinations are not 100% effective. The idea is that you reduce the number of carriers/infected people down to a bare minimum. Anyone who willfully opts out of that endangers everyone.

Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by The Good Reverend Roger
Europe isn't much better off. CCTVs everywhere, rules on what headwear schoolgirls cannot wear, hate speech laws, etc.

Same thing, different package.

You're totally correct about the "news", though.

I think you must be thinking of Britain or something? We dont have any rules against head wear here in Sweden, or metal detectors at schools, or anything like that. We do have cameras in a lot of places though.

CCTV = cameras.

And the headscarves thing is French.

You Swedes just have to wear lederhosen everywhere you go. Or was that the Swiss? I can never keep that straight.

The human body is a funny thing for as much as we are a like we are that much different in what affects us. I do not know of a single drug in the world, even including herbs etc, that do not have different affects on the vast majority of all of us.

Most are not noticeable while some are, but benign, and then you get into the ones that have negative side effects with even death as one. It just amazes me how two healthy people can take the same drug and it does wonders for one of them and kills the other.

I did not look at the whole video, and both my boys have been vaccinated with zero side effects so I don’t think I’ll watch all of it, but saying that I do have some questions about it.

It showed a good downward trend in all the diseases with vaccinations just part of a downward trend that would happen anyways, or would it?

It would be interesting to know as to what was causing the downward trends and IF those trends would have leveled off above the vaccination points instead of continuing to very low single digits per 100,000.

I would like to see the same data from a country like one in Africa where the living conditions would not really provide the downward trend that it looks to have in a modern country. In this environment we would actually see a better picture as to what vaccinations do without so much external influences (confounding) involved.

I would also like to know how many serious side effects per 100,000 for those who have been vaccinated and actually which vaccinations had the highest per 100,000. At least in this case you might find that just one may have led to the majority of the issues and not all of them.

For me personally I would not make a decision to not vaccinate my kids based on this video, and even the video had a disclaimer in the front not to do it either.

The bottom line here is you are rolling the dice in either case of to or not to vaccinate and I would want to throw the dice betting on which one has the best odds not to hurt my kids, and as we all know many of these diseases are actually worst as we get older, so not to vaccinate is giving your children a lifetime chance of having very serious illnesses.

Unless there is something that really stands out I would say the odds are better in actually vaccinating.



[edit on 24-11-2007 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by stompk


OK, back to subject. Please, debunkers, watch the video. The doctors, even if they are not real doctors, are showing real results of government population control through vaccinations.

You just can't dispute the government supplied graphs.

I can dispute that the graphs even came from the government, rather than being made up by the film makers. I can dispute that the graphs are - even if legitimate - being presented in context.

Do you have any source material that can be verified?

Originally posted by The Good Reverend Roger
* Everyone knows vaccinations are not 100% effective. The idea is that you reduce the number of carriers/infected people down to a bare minimum. Anyone who willfully opts out of that endangers everyone.

I guess you are not a big fan of free choice then. What your government says goes? They know the best?


[edit on 24-11-2007 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by Xtrozero


It would be interesting to know as to what was causing the downward trends


and IF those trends would have leveled off above the vaccination points instead of continuing to very low single digits per 100,000.

1. Knowledge of germ theory, better personal hygiene, and better preventative measures.

2. Anyone care to bet their lives on that?