Please stop with the crazy claims!

reply to post by ULTIMA1


1. In what way do you consider he was he "lined up" with the building? The plane hit at an angle.

2.The Pentagon is much wider than any runway. Again, it is one of the largest and widest buildings in the entire world. It is not harder to hit the Pentagon than to land precisely at the beginning of any runway. And yes, even pilots with only a 100 hours can land on any runway.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by nicepants
He was a licensed pilot...why is it so difficult to believe that he could hit a large building?

He had just enough time to get his license, he was not an experienced pilot.

Not experienced enough to pull of the type of maneuvers he was doing.

I guess the fact that he did, proves you're wrong. Again, you have no idea how many hours he was in a flight simulator and yes simulators make a big difference or they wouldn't use them to train pilots. The pilots who operate the Predators have a simulator in front of them and it works so.....

Originally posted by Netstriker
1. In what way do you consider he was he "lined up" with the building? The plane hit at an angle.

2.The Pentagon is much wider than any runway.

1. No, he was lined up with a section of the Pentagon. He hit at an angle becasue the plane hit a generator at the last minute.

2. The builidng is 77 feet tall and each section is less then 1000 feet long. Which would seem small at a distance and traveling at a high rate of speed in a 757.

Also its not the fact that he could land a plane,, its the fact that he was making maneuvers that only a experienced pilot could do.

Originally posted by jfj123
I guess the fact that he did, proves you're wrong. ..

And you have the evidence that he was flying the plane correct ?

Didn't the FDR state the pane was on autopilot at least 90% of the flight?




[edit on 20-11-2007 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 20-11-2007 by ULTIMA1]

originally posted by ULTIMA1
1. No, he was lined up with a section of the Pentagon. He hit at an angle becasue the plane hit a generator at the last minute.

By the time the right engine hit the generator, the nose of the aircraft would have only been a few feet from impacting the wall if it had not hit it already. That wouldn't leave enough time or distance for the aircraft to veer off course.

2. The builidng is 77 feet tall and each section is less then 1000 feet long. Which would seem small at a distance and traveling at a high rate of speed in a 757.

It's not like that was the only part of the Pentagon that he could see.

Also its not the fact that he could land a plane,, its the fact that he was making maneuvers that only a experienced pilot could do.

He had approximately 600 hours total time.

And you have the evidence that he was flying the plane correct ?

Do you have evidence that he wasn't? One of the pilots was in the passenger cabin shortly before the crash and Chick Burlingame had wounds on his body that indicated he was murdered before the crash, so someone had to be flying It.

Didn't the FDR state the pane was on autopilot at least 90% of the flight?

The autopilot was turned off at 7000 feet on its way to the Pentagon.

Originally posted by Boone 870
It's not like that was the only part of the Pentagon that he could see.

The autopilot was turned off at 7000 feet on its way to the Pentagon.

Yes at that point of view he could only see 1 section.

So the autopilot was on about 90% of the flight, correct?





[edit on 20-11-2007 by ULTIMA1]

I don't see how it's a big deal for a pilot to aim at a building the size of the pentagon. If they aimed anywhere at the building and pointed the airplane down, they were bound to hit something.

If Kamikaze pilots, with almost no training, could hit moving ships, it's VERY reasonable to assume a pilot with quite a bit more training could hit the pentagon. What's the big mystery?

originally posted by ULTIMA1
Yes at that point of view he could only see 1 section.

So the autopilot was on about 90% of the flight, correct?

What point of view? The only time that he would have not been able to see more of the Pentagon than the wedge he hit, would have been the last few seconds of the flight.

Correct, if not more.

Well a computer must have been flying Flight 77 becasue a novice pilot is not going to make a 360 degree turn with no corrections and come out lined up with a building.

The autopilot was switched off at 7000 feet on its way to the Pentagon.

Originally posted by Boone 870
What point of view? The only time that he would have not been able to see more of the Pentagon than the wedge he hit, would have been the last few seconds of the flight.


The autopilot was switched off at 7000 feet on its way to the Pentagon.

So you agree he could only have lined up on 1 section then, he could only have seen 1 section ?

Was the autopilot switched off before or after the 360 degree turn?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Boone 870
What point of view? The only time that he would have not been able to see more of the Pentagon than the wedge he hit, would have been the last few seconds of the flight.


The autopilot was switched off at 7000 feet on its way to the Pentagon.

So you agree he could only have lined up on 1 section then, he could only have seen 1 section ?

ULTIMA1,

if you actually read Boone 870's post...it answers you question. He said "The only time that he would have not been able to see more of the Pentagon than the wedge he hit, would have been the last few seconds of the flight."

So to explain this in the simplest of terms so you can understand:

- They would have been able to see the whole pentagon, and aim the plane at the building. The entire building would be visible up until the last few seconds. At that point, the plane is close enough to the building that you cannot see the other sides.

Does that help you?

Also, here is the NTSB information about the flight recorder....which was turned on/off a few times but was off the last 3 minutes of the flight. This information from from the flight data recorder.

www.ntsb.gov...


[edit on 21-11-2007 by Disclosed]

Originally posted by Disclosed
[ULTIMA1,

- They would have been able to see the whole pentagon, and aim the plane at the building.

Also, here is the NTSB information about the flight recorder....which was turned on/off a few times but was off the last 3 minutes of the flight. This information from from the flight data recorder.

www.ntsb.gov...

No, he would have only been able to see 1 section, since the sections are at an angle from each other. Also he would have to deal with the terrain, like a highway overpass.

From the site you posted, it states that the autopilot was off during the 360 turn. So maybe someone can explain how a novice pilot can do a 360 turn without correction and be lined up with a section of the building?



[edit on 21-11-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Disclosed
[ULTIMA1,

- They would have been able to see the whole pentagon, and aim the plane at the building.

Also, here is the NTSB information about the flight recorder....which was turned on/off a few times but was off the last 3 minutes of the flight. This information from from the flight data recorder.

www.ntsb.gov...

No, he would have only been able to see 1 section, since the sections are at an angle from each other. Also he would have to deal with the terrain, like a highway overpass.

From the site you posted, it states that the autopilot was off during the 360 turn. So maybe someone can explain how a novice pilot can do a 360 turn without correction and be lined up with a section of the building?

[edit on 21-11-2007 by ULTIMA1]

As long as the plane was above the building, they could look down and see the whole top of the building and at least one side.

So you're saying that no novice pilot could have made that turn?
Please show me evidence suggesting that no novice pilot has ever made that turn. Is this turn disallowed for all new pilots? Can new pilots get fired for making this turn?

originally posted by ULTIMA1

No, he would have only been able to see 1 section, since the sections are at an angle from each other. Also he would have to deal with the terrain, like a highway overpass.

When you state this, it sounds like you believe that flight 77 was at a real low altitude for the entire 330° turn. That's not the case. Watch the NTSB flight 77 FDR video recreation.

From the site you posted, it states that the autopilot was off during the 360 turn. So maybe someone can explain how a novice pilot can do a 360 turn without correction and be lined up with a section of the building?

What do you mean without correction? If you watch the flight 77 video, it clearly shows the yoke shifting from left to right during the defending turn.

Originally posted by jfj123

As long as the plane was above the building, they could look down and see the whole top of the building and at least one side.

Thanks for the post jfj123. You state: "As long as the plane was above the building, they could look down and see the whole top of the building and at least one side." Its obvious that you have never sat in the left seat of ANY cockpit on a downwind close-in approach. It's obvious you never had to ask to the co-pilot "How are we lookin' " trying to figure out when to turn base leg.

So let me respectfully ask you to cease your uninformed speculation about what you can and cannot see out of the left seat of a Boeing 757 while in a right turn.

So you're saying that no novice pilot could have made that turn?

Absolutely. Positively. Without question. Could not happen. Did not happen. Do I make myself clear?

Please show me evidence suggesting that no novice pilot has ever made that turn.

Many may have tried. but no novice pilot made that turn at that descent rate and hit the Pentagon. Did not happen. Could not happen. And that is my professional opinion based on 19,000 hours plus flying just about everything there is to fly.

Is this turn disallowed for all new pilots?

This question is fatuous.

Can new pilots get fired for making this turn?

This question is also fatuous.

Thanks for your post jfj123, the hole you're digging is very much appreciated.

Originally posted by jfj123

As long as the plane was above the building, they could look down and see the whole top of the building and at least one side.

So your saying he flew overtop of the building?

originally posted by John Lear
Its obvious that you have never sat in the left seat of ANY cockpit on a downwind close-in approach. It's obvious you never had to ask to the co-pilot "How are we lookin' " trying to figure out when to turn base leg.

What if you were sitting in the right hand seat while on right downwind or right base?

Originally posted by Boone 870
What if you were sitting in the right hand seat while on right downwind or right base?

Becasue even a novice pilot would sit in the left hand seat, the seat thats for the pilot.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


600 hours TT is considered novice now?

The United States Air Force may disagree with that.

Originally posted by Boone 870
600 hours TT is considered novice now?

The United States Air Force may disagree with that.

Yes it is when compared to the average airline pilot.

And do not bring up anythign about the Air Force, you do not know what you are talking about. Unless you were in the Air Force at an air training command.

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by jfj123

As long as the plane was above the building, they could look down and see the whole top of the building and at least one side.

Thanks for the post jfj123. You state: "As long as the plane was above the building, they could look down and see the whole top of the building and at least one side." Its obvious that you have never sat in the left seat of ANY cockpit on a downwind close-in approach. It's obvious you never had to ask to the co-pilot "How are we lookin' " trying to figure out when to turn base leg.

Nope you are absolutely correct. And you may even be right. That would be an actual first for you so I'm going to mark it on my calendar. I'll even back you a cake and put 1 big candle on it Go you !

So let me respectfully ask you to cease your uninformed speculation .

You first If I made one mistake, no problem. I can own up to it. I'll worry about it a little more once you stop making uninformed speculation about many other things including your hologram idea. Is that fair? HINT: The answer is YES it's fair.

So you're saying that no novice pilot could have made that turn?

Absolutely. Positively. Without question. Could not happen. Did not happen. Do I make myself clear?
Making yourself clear, doesn't make you right John

Please show me evidence suggesting that no novice pilot has ever made that turn.

Many may have tried. but no novice pilot made that turn at that descent rate and hit the Pentagon. Did not happen. Could not happen. And that is my professional opinion based on 19,000 hours plus flying just about everything there is to fly.
Sorry but your credibility is all but shot so I'm afraid your word isn't enough

Thanks for your post jfj123, the hole you're digging is very much appreciated.

Well it's not a real hole, it's a holographic hole
So when are you doing to answer everyones questions regarding holograms John? You don't seem to have a problem piping up and insulting people about other subjects? Just curious Thanks for your post.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123

As long as the plane was above the building, they could look down and see the whole top of the building and at least one side.

So your saying he flew overtop of the building?

Once I posted what I wrote, I realized it wasn't very clear. Then I was going to repost it to make it more clear but then I realized that it wouldn't matter how clear I made it as you would disagree and John Lear would probably pop out of the woodwork and dust off his flight cap.