Question for all the anti-masons out there...

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23


The bolded part is interesting. To anyone's knowledge on this board, did this ever happen anywhere else in regular masonry outside Italy? Or is it particuliar to the Propaganda lodge?

This is one of only several irregularities that led to the withdrawlal of recognition from the Grand Orient of Italy. In regular Masonry, the Grand Master has the authority to issue a dispensation to form a Lodge, but this dispensation is only good until the next Grand Lodge meeting, at which time the issue of chartering the Lodge is voted on. If approved, the Lodge receives a Charter; if not, it ceases to exist.

The Grand Master can also form an "Occasional Lodge" for the express purpose of making Masons on sight, but this only happens rarely and the Occasional Lodge is dissolved immediately afterward.

reply to post by devilhisself


I never actually thought people believed these things, how can you believe the freemasons are evil when the whole basis for them is to make people good. I know freemasons and they are not evil, i suppose it's possible to get an evil freemason but if there are evil masons they are rare as no-one I know, or anyone other than you on this forum, know of evil masons.

I have seen the MOST EVIL and vile acts. Those of which I could sit and talk about all day... but they are so grotesque, I am sure that most would not believe. So, what is the point.

You right there, i won't believe you until you show some proof or I see it. If you are still reading this forum please explain your ideas if you have proof, else don't bother.

reply to post by SANTARII


Freemasonry is somewhere in between the belief they are evil and sinister and the belief you share that masonry represents an organization that is primarily concerned with goodness. Just because the masons are not in kahootz with the FBI to implant microchips into every baby's skull, it does not mean everything they stand for is good and pure.

The masons, for the most part, are justt a microcosm of society at large. Some masons are good people, some are bad people. Some lodges are good places to make friends, some lodges are full of dirt bags. Sometimes masons do charitable works that make a difference in the community, sometimes they do nothing but go bowling and get drunk, and sometimes they might even do something illegal and/or immoral.

Even though the masonic rituals supposedly represent all that is pure and virtuous, even the most gung ho masons here have to admit that there are lodges and masons out there that do not live up to all the lofty ideals the rituals supposedly represent. Furthermore, while some masons take the rituals very seriously, even the most gung ho masons here will have to admit that many masons do not take the rituals seriously.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
Freemasonry is somewhere in between the belief they are evil and sinister and the belief you share that masonry represents an organization that is primarily concerned with goodness. Just because the masons are not in kahootz with the FBI to implant microchips into every baby's skull, it does not mean everything they stand for is good and pure.

Maaan - you just aren't getting it. EVERYTHING that freemasonry stands for is good and pure. There is NOTHING that freemasonry teaches which is not. I'd be most interested if you can come up with ONE thing freemasonry teaches which is not GOOD and PURE. Just one.

The masons, for the most part, are justt a microcosm of society at large. Some masons are good people, some are bad people. Some lodges are good places to make friends, some lodges are full of dirt bags. Sometimes masons do charitable works that make a difference in the community, sometimes they do nothing but go bowling and get drunk, and sometimes they might even do something illegal and/or immoral.

This is more correct. Freemasonry is a microcosm of society, but it's a slice of society that is earnestly trying to be better. Mostly succeeding, sometimes failing. Some freemasons just don't get it, of course. And that's their problem. But I'd be very surprised if there were very many lodges "full of dirt bags" as you delicately put it.

Even though the masonic rituals supposedly represent all that is pure and virtuous, even the most gung ho masons here have to admit that there are lodges and masons out there that do not live up to all the lofty ideals the rituals supposedly represent. Furthermore, while some masons take the rituals very seriously, even the most gung ho masons here will have to admit that many masons do not take the rituals seriously.

A GOOD thing that is not taken seriously by everyone is still a GOOD thing. Show me a perfect society and I'll show you the Kingdom of Heaven. But why oh why complain about the high ideals of an organization just because a few members don't follow them.

reply to post by Trinityman


wow, then I guess it shouldn't be a secret society and should spread their message of absolute pureness and good intention to every soul possible.

Originally posted by rationalgaze
wow, then I guess it shouldn't be a secret society and should spread their message of absolute pureness and good intention to every soul possible.

Actually rationalgaze, we are NOT a secret society and we DO try to spread our message to "every soul possible." Don't believe me? Read the following...PARTICULARLY the last line.

When is a Man a Mason?
By Rev. Joseph Fort Newton


When he can look out over the rivers, the hills, and the far horizon with a profound sense of his own littleness in the vast scheme of things, and yet have faith, hope, and courage-which is the root of every virtue.

When he knows that down in his heart every man is as noble, as vile, as divine, as diabolic, and as lonely as himself, and seeks to know, to forgive, and to love his fellowman.

When he knows how to sympathize with men in their sorrows, yea, even in their sins-knowing that each man fights a hard fight against many odds.

When he has learned how to make friends and to keep them, and above all how to keep friends with himself.

When he loves flowers, can hunt birds without a gun, and feels the thrill of an old forgotten joy when he hears the laugh of a little child.

When he can be happy and high-minded amid the meaner drudgeries of life.

When star-crowned trees and the glint of sunlight on flowing waters subdue him like the thought of one much loved and long dead.

When no voice of distress reaches his ears i vain, and no hand seeks his aid without response.

When he finds good in every faith that helps any man to lay hold of divine things and sees majestic meanings in life, whatever the name of that faith may be.

When he can look into a wayside puddle and see something beyond mud, and into the face of the most forlorn fellow mortal and see something beyond sin.

When he knows how to pray, how to love, how to hope.

When he has kept faith with himself, with his fellowman, and with his God; in his hands a sword for evil, in his heart a bit of a song-glad to live, but not afraid to die!
Such a man has found the ONLY REAL SECRET of Masonry, and the one which it is trying to give to all the world.


[edit on 25-11-2007 by Appak]

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


I have to disagree with you, yes you may get some masons who are just idiots and don't really care about masonry, or seek to use masonry for reasons other than it was intended, but that doesn't change what freemasonry stands for.

Originally posted by rationalgaze

wow, then I guess it shouldn't be a secret society and should spread their message of absolute pureness and good intention to every soul possible.

They do spread the message what do you think inviting everyone to learn about it is. Pretty much anyone can join masonry, I doubt that counts as a secret society.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


they're in cahoots with the c.i.a.! get it right

I am pretty sure people don't just sign up and learn all the secrets overnight...putting it very, very, very mildely!

Masonry is no different than any other social club in most ways, except they pride themselves in keeping certain things secret. I don't know since I never been a mason nor know anyone that has been and was willing to "spill the beans".

What kind of secrets would one expect? Its like asking a corporal in the army to run the gulf war in iraq. LOL You need a four star general for that, similary in masonry there are at least 33 degrees, of which only the first 3 belong to the blue lodge......which includes about 90% of the members! You have to be a master mason(3rd degree) in the blue lodge to branch off into the york and scottish rites to climb "higher". In reality after the 3rd degree the other degrees are thought of as supplementary rather than core.

Lets put it this way. The CEOs of major corporation, the past and present monarchs of many nations, heads of church, top brass in the military and other "movers and shakers" may or may not use masonry to advance their one world government agenda. The illuminati is not even part of masonry, rather its a legendary secret society with close ties to freemasonry, which they use to recruit the luciferian followers.

99.99999% are regular masons. The rest are luciferians and they run everything! Mind boggling? Its all speculation and supposition from years of research in the subject.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


The 33° Mason in my Lodge (who was also my sponsor) is retired from regular work (being over 85 years old) and now has a job running the admin of the old-age home which is run by a few of the Lodges in my town. He got 33° at the age of 82. Go figure...

reply to post by Saurus


Is he the director of some appendage body in south africa? There are very few 33rd masons unless you are talking about the rites of memphis and misram which go up to 99-I think!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
There are very few 33rd masons unless you are talking about the rites of memphis and misram which go up to 99-I think!

Not in my jursidiction. I can personally name almost 50 of them (including 6 in my lodge) and there are hundreds more.

There are active 33rds and honorary 33rds. New Jersey is allowed 3 actives. One is the state deputy and he has two assistants. The number of actives alloted is based on overall Scottish Rite membership for that state.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Is he the director of some appendage body in south africa? There are very few 33rd masons unless you are talking about the rites of memphis and misram which go up to 99-I think!

It's the appendant body called Rose Croix, which is the English equivalent of the American Scottish Rite.

In the Rose Croix, the number of 33° Masons are very restricted, and the 32° Masons that I know refer to it affectionately as "Dead Man's Shoes", meaning that you have to wait for a 33° member to pass away before taking his place, due to the limited number.

Nonetheless, the Mason in my Lodge was given the honour because of many years of service in Freemasonry (over 50 years as an active Mason.). As a career, he was formerly a quantity surveyor working for himself, not the CEO of some large company.

As far as I know, in South Africa, there are no 33° Masons below the age of 75. In England, there many be a few, but certainly not many, and all who have the honour have it due to long service in Freemasonry, not due to any career or power or religious inclinations.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by Saurus

 

Is he the director of some appendage body in south africa? There are very few 33rd masons unless you are talking about the rites of memphis and misram which go up to 99-I think!

I can walk in most any lodge in my area , throw a rock and just about guarantee you that I will hit a 33rd degree Mason . These 33rds are everywhere .

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I am pretty sure people don't just sign up and learn all the secrets overnight...putting it very, very, very mildely!

Well you have to be voted on by the Brothers then you go through the ceremony where you receive the secrets of that particular degree. There are many things given to you, but its up to the new Brother to learn those things told to him and their should be a mentor there with him.

You need a four star general for that, similary in masonry there are at least 33 degrees, of which only the first 3 belong to the blue lodge......which includes about 90% of the members!

The 33rd degree belongs to the Scottish Rite. There are other appendant bodies such as the York Rite, which with its invitational and honorary bodies outnumbers the Scottish Rite.

99.99999% are regular masons. The rest are luciferians and they run everything!

So the Grand Lodges and appendant bodies are Luciferian¿

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
There are very few 33rd masons unless you are talking about the rites of memphis and misram which go up to 99-I think!

Not in my jursidiction. I can personally name almost 50 of them (including 6 in my lodge) and there are hundreds more.

There are active 33rds and honorary 33rds. New Jersey is allowed 3 actives. One is the state deputy and he has two assistants. The number of actives alloted is based on overall Scottish Rite membership for that state.

Thanks for clarifying the confusion. I was talking about ACTIVE 33rd degree masons, not honorary members with long time service to the community and/or masonry.

Just the simple fact only 33 members can voted into the supreme council of the southern jurisdiction and 66 into the northern jurisdiction means there cannot be thousands of 33rd degree masons because the ratio would be outlandish.

Originally posted by KSigMason

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

99.99999% are regular masons. The rest are luciferians and they run everything!

So the Grand Lodges and appendant bodies are Luciferian¿

The entire world is run by luciferians, so it is no suprise they would use masonry as a tool of secrecy, inorder to recruit members into the so called illuminatti. First you have to learn to keep secrets...........

Luciferianism

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about the veneration of the biblical Lucifer. For the 4th-century bishop, see Lucifer of Cagliari.

Luciferianism is a belief system that venerates the essential characteristics that are affixed to Lucifer, originally a name referring to the planet Venus when it rises ahead of the Sun.

Luciferianism is identified by some people as an auxiliary of Satanism, due to the popular identification of Lucifer with Satan. Some Luciferians accept this identification or consider Lucifer as the light bearer aspect of Satan. Others reject it, arguing that Lucifer is a more positive ideal than Satan. They are inspired by the ancient Egyptian mythology, Roman mythology, Greek mythology, Gnosticism and Western occultism.

AND then you have to learn to hate god through the confusion of studying mainstream religions. Notice I am not mocking spiritualism because I believe it is important to our lives, instead I am alluding to the divisive nature of structured religions and how one religion pretends to be THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE VOICE! Religion like politics has been corrupted by satan and his minions on earth through the centuries and millenia.

Many books have been banned and hardely any mention of lucifer/devil/satan in the remaining so called "holly books". In fact there is no mention of aliens and their role with humanity.

Lastly only satan would force priests not to marry, ban abortions, encourage fasting, encourage homosexual priests to mollest children, declare war on opposing believers called "infadels", combine religion with greedy capitalism in "the right wing" package, force people to pay monetary values for their sins, use various horn signs for greetings, ban divorce, etc!

Look around you. Do you see happy people? Do you see common sense from our so called "leaders"? I see evil propaganda and one world government based on false flag terrorism, central bankers colluding with governments to default nations and a possible world war 3 between israel and the west and the arabs and the east.

Thanks for your dry comments, but I have no problem pawning people like you. Try a little harder next time!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
There are very few 33rd masons unless you are talking about the rites of memphis and misram which go up to 99-I think!

So you know, just this year, the Supreme Council of the Southern Masonic Jurisdiction, there were 469 Masons elected to receive the 33rd degree of the Scottish Rite. Source. I'd say that constitutes more than just a few and that is just in one jurisdiction of Scottish Rite. There are more than just the two here in the US.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

The entire world is run by Luciferians? Well, I guess when you want an enemy to blame things on, you'll see it everywhere.

First you have to learn to keep secrets

Actually the first lesson you are taught is truth. I'd say its less about keeping secrets and more about keeping your word, your oath.

Masonry doesn't teach you to hate God. I can't speak for the alleged Illuminati, but I can speak for certain on Freemasonry. On my personal time (and something I have done years prior to joining Freemasonry), I study various mythologies and religions and I don't hate God. My studies have never turned me away from God. An enlightened mind is a mind for God.

Lastly only satan would force priests not to marry, ban abortions, encourage fasting, encourage homosexual priests to mollest children, declare war on opposing believers called "infadels", combine religion with greedy capitalism in "the right wing" package, force people to pay monetary values for their sins, use various horn signs for greetings, ban divorce, etc!

So you're not a fan of the Catholic Church?

Thanks for your dry comments, but I have no problem pawning people like you. Try a little harder next time!

Ummmm...right...you really didn't pawn me...you just ranted, but none of it really countered my post. I asked a question for clarification to your point, so there really isn't anything to pawn.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Just the simple fact only 33 members can voted into the supreme council of the southern jurisdiction and 66 into the northern jurisdiction means there cannot be thousands of 33rd degree masons because the ratio would be outlandish.

But there are thousands, and the only difference is in regards to voting.

Also, what is the relevance of the 33rd degree?

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Thanks for clarifying the confusion. I was talking about ACTIVE 33rd degree masons, not honorary members with long time service to the community and/or masonry.

Just the simple fact only 33 members can voted into the supreme council of the southern jurisdiction and 66 into the northern jurisdiction means there cannot be thousands of 33rd degree masons because the ratio would be outlandish.

He clarified it, then you muddied it back up.

I'll use Southern Jurisdiction terms.

The 33° is titled Inspector General Honorary. There are, as Augie says, thousands of those. Here's a list of men receiving that honor in the Southern Jurisdiction this year alone. (I'll save you the trouble of counting, there are 469 new 33° being made this year in the Southern Jurisdiction.) ATS member Lost in the Midwest received the honor 2 years ago. Former (and deceased) ATS member Appak was a 33°.

The supreme council is made up of Sovereign Grand Inspectors General. Yes, there are thirty three of them, no more than one per state. SGIGs are generally already 33° before taking that office. (Unless they went to college with the Sovereign Grand Commander, in which case nepotism has its privileges…)

But to say there are only thirty three 33° is incorrect. There are 33 SGIGs.